[TusharK]

The Indian Army could be looking to acquire the Maruti Suzuki Jimny. The 5-door off-roader could replace the Gypsy currently used by the army.



According to a media report, the army plans to replace around 35,000 units of the Gypsy. Maruti will offer the army-spec Jimny 5-door in a Dark Jungle Green shade, which will be reserved for the army version. Besides the colour, the army-spec Jimny is said to feature a strengthened chassis with stiffer springs and increased ground clearance.

The SUV is likely to be powered by the same 1.5-litre petrol engine as the civilian version. It develops 103 BHP and 134 Nm and is paired with a 5-speed manual or 4-speed automatic transmission and Suzuki’s AllGrip Pro all-wheel drive system.

The Gypsy has been the army's off-roader of choice for decades. It was lighter and more nimble compared to the Safari Storme and Mahindra Scorpio, which are also part of the army's fleet.

Source: V3 Cars

Link to Team-BHP News

[shankar.balan]

Superb.
If indeed the Army chooses the Jimny and actually replaces the Gypsy with it, thats an approbation like no other!
The advantage the Gypsy had was the soft top and easy open rear tailgate, allowing for rapid deployment of 6 troopers.
It could fit 2 in front and 3 on each of the rear bench seats along with their arms and ammo.
The Jimny 5 door will be hard pressed to step into the Gypsy’s shoes in that sense.

[aim120]

They can always extend the truck bed up because its body on chassis.
The Gypsy was sold in several countries with a two piece body (cab and truck bed) sold as farm worker to evade emission and safety norms. I have seen the Jimny also with such modifications.

Garuda air force commando and army special forces are often seen in Gypsy with no top . Some Army Gypsy come with anti tank, ground surveillance radar etc.

While the Army deployed in snowy areas prefer the hard top.

[Fx14]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

The advantage the Gypsy had was the soft top and easy open rear tailgate, allowing for rapid deployment of 6 troopers.
It could fit 2 in front and 3 on each of the rear bench seats along with their arms and ammo.
The Jimny 5 door will be hard pressed to step into the Gypsy’s shoes in that sense.

The model could be customized for the specific requirements, if they desire.

For example, have observed many army trucks that have 4*4 drivetrains with just a single wheel on each side of the rear axle, whereas the commercially available versions of the same truck have 2 wheels on each side of the rear axle and is a RWD only.

[ruzbehxyz]

The Gypsy with 1.3 litre petrol engine producied 103 nm of torque. This vehicle did well for the Army and for off-roading as well mainly because of lesser weight (power to weight ratio). The suspension was really bad.
The Jimny on the other hand will come with a 1.5 litre petrol engine producing 134 nm of torque.
I feel these are seriously underpowered vehicles and the Army deserves better. The modified Tata Safari was delivered to the Army few years back. Although production for this model is stopped, Tata can still produce the same just for the Army. The Indian Army must consider something tougher.

[aim120]

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

The Jimny on the other hand will come with a 1.5 litre petrol engine producing 134 nm of torque.
I feel these are seriously underpowered vehicles and the Army deserves better. The modified Tata Safari was delivered to the Army few years back. Although production for this model is stopped, Tata can still produce the same just for the Army. The Indian Army must consider something tougher.

Safari is too heavy or big for the Army for many applications, its fine for transporting officers, Generals etc. But for narrow roads, Air lift, Special forces, ease of maintaining they prefer the Gypsy.

Gypsy production was stopped due to BSVI and mandatory safety norms such as Airbag , yet the Army got a special waiver to revive the production for a few thousand more, which tells us all we need to know.

[Samba]

I have a mixed feeling on this. Am not sure how they will manage the space with the Jimny. The old Gypsy was a much more versatile vehicle. Though I do not have any doubt on the power or the off-road capability of Jimny.

From the current list of 4x4s available, I feel the V-Cross/Xenon/Hilux can actually be quite useful!

[ruzbehxyz]

Originally Posted by Samba

From the current list of 4x4s available, I feel the V-Cross/Xenon/Hilux can actually be quite useful!

Although these are good robust vehicles, they are pick up trucks and hence very long for manoeuvering hair pin bends in the Himalayan roads. Also the Army would prefer something “Made in India” by an Indian company.

Originally Posted by aim120

But for narrow roads, Air lift, Special forces, ease of maintaining they prefer the Gypsy.

The Army preferred the Gypsy probably because there was no alternative 4x4 vehicle available and in that price range.

[volkman10]

From the Defense new, way back in 2020, Suzuki Jimny was of interest to the Indian Army as replacement to the ageing Gypsy fleet,

In a related development, it emerged a few months ago that the car maker plans to launch a successor of the Maruti Gypsy in the new car market in the form of a derivative of the current generation Suzuki Jimny. While the company has maintained that there is little demand for mini off-roaders, the company plans to come up with an India-specific version.

With the launch of the India-spec Suzuki Jimny, the company would hope to recreate the magic of the Maruti Gypsy, which was first launched in the country over 34 years ago. Also, it may be noted here that the India-spec Gypsy was itself a derivative of the second-gen Suzuki Jimny.

Also, unlike the Maruti Gypsy, the upcoming Suzuki Jimny SUV for India will be in compliance with the new safety and emission norms. The off-roader will share its 1.5-litre petrol engine with the Ertiga and Ciaz and will be based on the Jimny Sierra sold abroad.

Link

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

The Gypsy with 1.3 litre petrol engine producied 103 nm of torque. This vehicle did well for the Army and for off-roading as well mainly because of lesser weight (power to weight ratio). The suspension was really bad.
The Jimny on the other hand will come with a 1.5 litre petrol engine producing 134 nm of torque.
I feel these are seriously underpowered vehicles and the Army deserves better. The modified Tata Safari was delivered to the Army few years back. Although production for this model is stopped, Tata can still produce the same just for the Army. The Indian Army must consider something tougher.

All the power to weight ratio figures go out the window when you add in the extra weight of 6-8 soldiers and their arms and ammunition. The Gypsy is important for the army mainly because of how small it's dimensions are, it might just be the only vehicle which can reach some treacherous narrow paths that a Thar or Safari just won't be able to maneuver in. They don't need to go fast so they can get by with very low gearing to make up for the lack of power.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

The suspension was really bad. I feel these are seriously underpowered vehicles and the Army deserves better. The Indian Army must consider something tougher.

In defence of this often denigrated, unsung hero.

I have owned multiple Gypsys and this is the 5th Gypsy I have owned in the last 25 -26 years. I have just come back last afternoon from a 4 day, 1000kms solo trip up and down and around the Nilgiris in my Factory Spec stock soft top Gypsy with stock MRF Estate F78-15 Nylon tyres, driving with the factory recommended 20PSi tyre pressure all round and its bone stock suspension.

In this trip, as in multiple other trips, I have driven a mix of highway, expressway, rough roads, steep stoney and rutted tracks, narrow trails and estate roads etc.

I will not agree that the suspension is ‘really bad’ as you put it. In stock form it is perfectly fine for the purpose it is meant for. I will not agree to this statement of the Gypsy being underpowered for the purpose for which it is meant. And I will also not agree that the Gypsy is not tough enough for the purpose for which it is used.

In fact these Suzuki vehicles are totally under-rated. Everyone keeps shouting from the rooftops about Toyota and its reliability and all that. But these little Suzukis are definitely unsung heroes. And as a long term user with a great deal of experience of these vehicles, including a ground up, part by part restoration of one, I absolutely will NOT abide this condemnation of the Gypsy in an out of hand manner, by those who do not own one, have never owned one and do not know enough about them.

I do not mean to sound harsh or like a fanboy, which I am sure many persons here will accuse me of being. Im only stating plain facts. If what Im saying weren’t true, then there is no way that our forces would have continued to use these for the last 38 years!

[Bibendum90949]

Originally Posted by TusharK

The Indian Army could be looking to acquire the Maruti Suzuki Jimny. The 5-door off-roader could replace the Gypsy currently used by the army.

The flip side of this development to us owners and lovers of Gypsy is that, the production of Gypsy would cease to exist completely. Maruti made around 4000 Gypsies for army in 2019 I guess, after the exemption. Phasing out Gypsies from their fleet would also mean that the spare parts support may well be a problem 10 years down the line. By then Gypsy would complete 50 years and may move onto the classic/vintage category. Guess to quality for that, spare parts non availability is the primary criteria

Having said that, I'm holding onto this lovely little, go anywhere, super reliable, simple machine called Gypsy as long as I possibly can. Thars, Gurkhas, Scorpios, Safaris come and go. But the King just reigns ! And i've no qualms in admitting that these are fan boy words. Here are my two close to heart machines that gives me unbridled fun and joy every time I drive them. Live Long Gypsy !

[ruzbehxyz]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

In defence of this often denigrated, unsung hero.
In fact these Suzuki vehicles are totally under-rated.

Thanks for your inputs. I am glad you are enjoying your vehicle to its core. My point was not for the capability of the vehicle. My point was the vehicle being underpowered.

Maruti Suzuki Gypsy was first launched in India back in December of 1985. Let’s looks at the figures. This was MG410 with a 1.0-litre petrol engine.




Later in 1996, Maruti Gypsy got its first significant change in years. The 1.0-litre engine was upgraded to a 1.3-litre engine, sourced from the Maruti Esteem. Let’s look at the figures of this engine.




Later came the MPFI and in 2019 the car was out of Official production due to tightening emissions and crash standards. However, Maruti has not dismantled the production line and was still producing the Gypsy in batches specifically for the Indian Armed forces.

Although figures on paper do not actually say about the real world capability of a car, this is mainly due to the power to weight ratio.

The brand which pioneered the offroader community sadly is dying when the SUV category had started growing.

Gypsy although considered as a tough vehicle lacked many important attributes valued by a customer. The driving quality and the mileage was awful. The product was priced at a ridiculous premium which was not justified in terms of value. The brand was priced at around which you could buy an entry level sedan.The product although looked excellent outside was a mess inside. The vehicle lacked space and comfort especially for the rear seat. It had all the qualities for an offroader but failed to understand the Indian customer. The mileage was awful and that ensured that only those who fall head over heals over the looks only will buy this brand. For the ordinary consumers, the brand did not make much sense. Gypsy also did not change itself in tune with the changing industry requirements. The vehicle initially was severely underpowered for an offroader. The company enhanced the power from 1 litre to 1.3 litre only after 11 years. Gypsy King was launched in 1996, sported the more powerful Esteem engine but was priced steeply.

The Gypsy in India, is basically the 2nd generation of Suzuki Jimny. Internationally, the same model was discontinued more than a decade ago, but was still on sale in India due to demand by Indian Army. And it is because of the Indian Army, the once dead Maruti Gypsy, has returned back to life. Suzuki Jimny has now entered 4th generation in international market.

So why did the Army prefer the gypsy ? Simply because there was no alternate 4x4 available in the 90’s and early 2000’s. Some pros for the Army were:
1. Petrol engine - so no freezing of fuel in sub-zero temperature of the Himalayas. But again this proved a disadvantage as all other Army vehicles are diesel, so the Army has to keep a stock of diesel and petrol in their base camps. This causes inconvenience in the high reaches of the Himalayas.
2. Light weight body (close to 1000 kg) - so less chances of getting stuck in mud, slush etc.
3. Smaller body - so easier to turn on sharp hair pin bends.
4. Cheap maintenance.

Again the Indian Army may still prefer the new Jimmy today because of its cheaper cost as compared to other 4x4 vehicles, but that does not mean it is better.


Why did off-roaders prefer the Gypsy ? Again simply because of the light weight body (power to weight ratio). But bear in mind that off-roaders always modified their Gypsys with suspension, diff locks, axles etc and most even upgrading the engine as it was underpowered. The Gypsy body is even used for RFC off-road challenges. However they would change the engine to another one eg. Baleno engine.


To sum it up, the Gypsy is still a relatively successful brand mainly because of good sales to Defence, an icon in India, a good off-roader, but still underpowered when stock.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

My point was not for the capability of the vehicle. My point was the vehicle being underpowered.

The driving quality and the mileage was awful. The product was priced at a ridiculous premium which was not justified in terms of value. The mileage was awful and that ensured that only those who fall head over heals over the looks only will buy this brand.

For the ordinary consumers, the brand did not made much sense. Gypsy also did not change itself in tune with the changing industry requirements.

I have already rebutted your above point relating to ‘under powered’ and ‘driving quality’ in my earlier post today. In its stock form it is perfectly ok and comfortable enough for an off roader jeepy thing as well as being very easy to steer on its stock tyres with recommended pressure.

I am now rebutting your statement on mileage now. My stock Gypsy has returned 12kmpl on this trip- in a mix of highway, expressway, hills and steep rutted tracks and stony trails with 4H and 4L being used a lot. I have the petrol bills and the mileage readings to prove this. Many other cars and jeepy things give equivalent or less.

I agree that the brand per se did not reinvent itself according to changing needs of the mass market and therefore remained a niche product. This was more a Maruti specific failing as a manufacturer than a Gypsy Brand specific one. I agree that it was priced at 7.5-8 lac on road Bangalore in 2019. Yes this was expensive.

Do consider also that the famous Innova came in at 8 lacs in 2005 and costs 32 lacs now in 2023! And the famous Fortuner used to cost 22 Lacs in 2011 and now costs 63 lacs!

Yes the Gypsy is not for ordinary folks. It is more to be used for ‘purpose’. Internationally the Jimny has been in existence for many years. It is Maruti’s failing that they didn’t offer it to us in India till now in 2023!

The vehicle and its capabilities are beyond question.
But while as per their old tagline ‘There is a Gypsy in Everyone’, the Gypsy is certainly NOT ‘FOR’ just Anyone and Everyone!

[Shubhendra]

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

I feel these are seriously underpowered vehicles and the Army deserves better. The modified Tata Safari was delivered to the Army few years back. Although production for this model is stopped, Tata can still produce the same just for the Army. The Indian Army must consider something tougher.

For the specific use case of army, they are not so underpowered. Even for off-road they are not underpowered et all.
Safari is just too too heavy for this purpose (field duty) with lot of maintenance issues even for army. Ask army people using them on higher altitudes (with thin air)

PS: I have owned a few Gypsys Safari 4x4 and still own a Gypsy and safari. Above opinion is based on my experience with both the vehicles and knowledge sharing with the front liners.