[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by ashis89

Is there any reading material that I refer to know more about this? DPF and the regen mechanism has been a grey area all this while.

On a related note, the exhaust tail tip of my 55k run bs6 diesel car is as clean as a stainless steel pipe, cleaner than my bs4 petrol car's exhaust.

Your exhaust may be clean because the particulates are burnt during regeneration and are not sticky(my own theory).

Diesel cars may be emitting as much as 1,000 times the legal limit of particulate emissions

These tiny particles are carcinogenic, and have been linked by the World Health Organisation with such as lung cancer, brain cancer, cardiovascular disease, and respiratory illnesses.

During the regeneration cycle, NOx emissions increased significantly.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-...ions-1.4138323

[sunilch]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

Such a informative thread.

I am surprised to see Maruti sold zero diesel cars in the year 2022, is that correct figure or I am reading it wrong?

I did not know that Maruti has completely stopped selling diesel cars. Still they are holding their number one spot in the Indian car market.

Maruti does not have a diesel engine of its own and after Fiat stopped the 1.3L diesel mill, they stopped making any diesel cars. Their plans for own diesel engine did not materialize and hence for the last few years they don't have any diesel model in their portfolio.

[ashishk29]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

EVs will never be practical for long distance use, definitely not like turbo diesels. You get excellent cars for long distance touring for, say, 25L. They will all have large turbocharged diesels. What are your EV options in this price range? Even if you double the price, it’s just not realistic. And it’s not going to become realistic for at least another decade minimum.

I see EVs becoming popular for urban use. Definitely. But strong hybrid is the replacement for diesel. And it is a fairly like for like replacement.

How do strong hybrids fare in terms of expressway like usage? I believe past about 80-90kmph most strong hybrids switch to the ICE to some extent or the other. The implementation varies from OEM to OEM.

But I wonder how efficient 1.5L NA petrol engines are going to be cruising at 100kmph compared to, say, a 1.5L Turbo Diesel cruising at ~100kmph?

From my experience the turbo diesel can comfortably do 23-24kmpl even at 100kmph. Can strong hybrids match that?

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by ashishk29

How do strong hybrids fare in terms of expressway like usage?

But I wonder how efficient 1.5L NA petrol engines are going to be cruising at 100kmph compared to, say, a 1.5L Turbo Diesel cruising at ~100kmph?

From my experience the turbo diesel can comfortably do 23-24kmpl even at 100kmph. Can strong hybrids match that?

Strong hybrids are every bit as efficient as turbo diesels on highways, if not more. The petrol engine runs on Atkinson cycle, which is inherently much more fuel efficient.

Ownership reports of the Hyryder and City hybrids point to highway efficiency figures of 23-25kmpl. And you need to drive really hard to go below 18kmpl in both cars, irrespective of conditions.

Net net, strong hybrids are very fuel efficient in both highway and city driving.

[safari_lover]

MG selling more petrol vehicles than diesel is a surprise for me. So the market for big SUVs powered by small turbo petrol engines isn't as small as I imagined it to be. It must serve as a cue for Tata to expedite the Petrol Harrier and Safari launches.

[vij]

If only Hyundai launches that much improved 2023 Kona in India, they could get a significant chunk of MG ZS ev market. The 2023 All new Kona is a marked improvement on all fronts including size and looks - compared to the current Kona.

[DarthVeda]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

EVs will never be practical for long distance use, definitely not like turbo diesels.

What do you think is long distance travel, the one which most people do, please exclude saddle sore runs, which are outliers.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by DarthVeda

What do you think is long distance travel, the one which most people do, please exclude saddle sore runs, which are outliers.

Long distance travel, to me, is the ability to get to my destination without having to plan or worry about my stops. Doesn’t matter if my destination is 100km away or 1000km away. Highways, especially modern expressways, require you to drive at three digit speeds continuously. EVs, at least the ‘affordable’ ones suck at that. Our changing infrastructure is limited, has questionable reliability and is hilariously slow. It is Nexon EV spec. And that car has no place on modern Indian expressways. 50kw chargers, the bare minimum, are few and far between.

Our newly developed and upcoming expressways are a game changer for long distance driving, and future purchases have to take this kind of usage into account.

Vehicles like Ioniq 5 are a great exponent of what electric mobility should be like. Such vehicles, however will always remain beyond the reach of 95% of car buyers. Ioniq 5 is the minimum EV I would consider for myself as someone living in Delhi NCR, to even consider taking it out of town.

Gen 1 EVs like Nexon, Tiago, ZS etc are all great city cars. But I won’t touch them for highway use. Highway drives should be pleasurable. Not an exercise in patience and planning. Otherwise, I might as well fly or take the train.

[pqr]

Originally Posted by safari_lover

MG selling more petrol vehicles than diesel is a surprise for me. So the market for big SUVs powered by small turbo petrol engines isn't as small as I imagined it to be. It must serve as a cue for Tata to expedite the Petrol Harrier and Safari launches.

Unlike Tata, MG doesn’t offer automatic transmission for FCA sourced 2L diesel engines on Hector. So, if a potential customer wants to buy automatic Hector - has to settle down for lifeless petrol CVT Hector. If MG starts offering diesel AT Hector, then the fuel mix will tilt in favour of diesel.

[ashishk29]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Strong hybrids are every bit as efficient as turbo diesels on highways, if not more. The petrol engine runs on Atkinson cycle, which is inherently much more fuel efficient.

Ownership reports of the Hyryder and City hybrids point to highway efficiency figures of 23-25kmpl. And you need to drive really hard to go below 18kmpl in both cars, irrespective of conditions.

Net net, strong hybrids are very fuel efficient in both highway and city driving.

Interesting. I hadn't imagined Atkinson cycle by itself could level out the ICE mode fuel economy w.r.t. diesel engines!

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by ashishk29

Interesting. I hadn't imagined Atkinson cycle by itself could level out the ICE mode fuel economy w.r.t. diesel engines!

It does, as ownership reviews clearly indicate. Fuel efficiency of both Honda and Maruti/Toyota strong hybrids at highway speeds is better than the most fuel efficient diesel automatics of this price range - Creta and Seltos. In fact, the only other diesels available in this price range are the SUVs - Harrier, XUV700, Scorpio and Thar, none of which are anywhere near as efficient, obviously.

Again, it goes back to the basic point. Diesels in mainstream passenger cars are almost extinct.

[DarthVeda]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Long distance travel, to me, is the ability to get to my destination without having to plan or worry about my stops. Doesn’t matter if my destination is 100km away or 1000km away. Highways, especially modern expressways, require you to drive at three digit speeds continuously. EVs, at least the ‘affordable’ ones suck at that. Our changing infrastructure is limited, has questionable reliability and is hilariously slow. It is Nexon EV spec. And that car has no place on modern Indian expressways. 50kw chargers, the bare minimum, are few and far between.

Our newly developed and upcoming expressways are a game changer for long distance driving, and future purchases have to take this kind of usage into account.

Vehicles like Ioniq 5 are a great exponent of what electric mobility should be like. Such vehicles, however will always remain beyond the reach of 95% of car buyers. Ioniq 5 is the minimum EV I would consider for myself as someone living in Delhi NCR, to even consider taking it out of town.

Gen 1 EVs like Nexon, Tiago, ZS etc are all great city cars. But I won’t touch them for highway use. Highway drives should be pleasurable. Not an exercise in patience and planning. Otherwise, I might as well fly or take the train.

So a long drive would be something that doesn't any forethought and just drive to the destination? You won't plan where to have food, a place with good hygienic toilet?

The Nexon EV can do long distance trip, I have done few with family in the past few months without a worry. Anything under 400km will be a single stop charging, which I ensure is around a eatery, and it's very easy to plan using plugshare or from experience.

Having said that I agree, You cannot get up one day and say I am going to go here for X kms (greater than 300km) and then decide what to do, EVs aren't meant for that.

On the infrastructure, we have come a long way, on what the infrastructure was in 2020 and what it is now, with even PSU oil companies now getting on the act, it can only accelerate. TML needs to up it's act and improve the charging speed on it's vehicle, 18kw for Tiago, 21kw for Nexon EV Prime, 30kw for Nexon EV Max isn't quite up to the standard in 2023.

[PazhazziRaja]

Originally Posted by Celes

I would like to further add to this informative quote. As the diesel engines are atleast 50% more efficient, in real world driving conditions, the emissions from a BS6 diesel engine per kms covered would be almost equal to a BS6 petrol car as more petrol would be burnt to cover same number of kms.

I think the understanding is bit different...the limits mentioned are mg of emissions per km. By its nature of combustion, diesel emits more NOx than gasoline. So even if you end up using less liters of fuel for diesel you would end up putting more NOx. the gap increases if you consider the NOx per L of fuel . however diesel is good in the and co emissions compared to gasoline..

[PazhazziRaja]

Originally Posted by ashishk29

Interesting. I hadn't imagined Atkinson cycle by itself could level out the ICE mode fuel economy w.r.t. diesel engines!

It doesn't. But how they achieve this parity with diesel engine is through careful selection of engine operating zones in combination with the hybrid system so that for most operating conditions the engine always operates in the best efficiency zones with the electric motor bridging the gap in required performance. To put it another way if you consider the efficiency of say, 2.0L Naturally aspirated diesel / petrol / atkinson engines without hybrid system it would look like diesel >atkinson >petrol. However atkinson without a hybrid or turbo charger (with turbo the cycle would be Miller) comes at the cost of engine performance especially at low rpm. So in terms of torque at low rpm it would be disel >petrol>atkinson

[ashishk29]

Originally Posted by PazhazziRaja

It doesn't. But how they achieve this parity with diesel engine is through careful selection of engine operating zones in combination with the hybrid system so that for most operating conditions the engine always operates in the best efficiency zones with the electric motor bridging the gap in required performance. To put it another way if you consider the efficiency of say, 2.0L Naturally aspirated diesel / petrol / atkinson engines without hybrid system it would look like diesel >atkinson >petrol. However atkinson without a hybrid or turbo charger (with turbo the cycle would be Miller) comes at the cost of engine performance especially at low rpm. So in terms of torque at low rpm it would be disel >petrol>atkinson

Thank you! This makes so much sense.

You talked about keeping the engine in its most optimal zone, but then what happens when you floor it on the highway, cruising at 100kmph or so? Wouldn't that be a high-load situation for a naturally aspirated engine making relatively mediocre amounts of power and torque?