[vjbox]

Originally Posted by lordrayden

I understand that numbers aren't everything. I know that the BMW 2.0 diesel revs much higher than the average oil burner. I am aware that the ZF 8-speed is near perfect. I agree that the experience is orders of magnitude better.

But still:
XUV700 Diesel AT @ 18L ex-showroom: 182 BHP and 450 NM
BMW 520d M Sport (I repeat, M Sport) @ 69L ex-showroom: 188 BHP and 400 NM

Hmm .

Yeah from a layman perspective. But we all know what matters is how those numbers come to play on the road. No contest

[Mustang_Boss]

Originally Posted by lordrayden

I understand that numbers aren't everything. ...

But still:
XUV700 Diesel AT @ 18L ex-showroom: 182 BHP and 450 NM
BMW 520d M Sport (I repeat, M Sport) @ 69L ex-showroom: 188 BHP and 400 NM

Hmm .

A Dosa sold on streets / small shops costs ~50. Where as the same Dosa costs 150 + @Minerva or similar outlets.

Both are the same item and when you look at the plate, you will be able to say, what's different. And when you taste it, the gap rises.

I really am not sure what you are implying with your comparison. Both are good, look similar, but they are completely different.

[vredesbyrd]

BMW going the popularist route (Saints Row/Rage 2/Doctor Who) would definitely have resulted in some moves that do not sit well with enthusiasts.

520d brings them profit and that's about it. The CAFE norms are just an excuse for them to act like EA/Activision/Toyota.

I've only driven the F10 530d for 50-70km and it was enough to convince me that I should own that engine at least once in my lifetime (now is not the time though).

Farewell, sweet prince. Your smooth power delivery will be missed.

[itwasntme]

Originally Posted by karan561

The 6 cylinder diesel will return in the 5 series for sure by the time the next gen G60 5 series is launched in India

I'm guessing the 2024 China G6x model will come over in LWB form with the 3.0 diesel + 48 volt mild hybrid. Also, very likely that BMW will axe the SWB just as in the 3 Series.

[pratika]

While it’s sad that the legendary 530d is discontinued. I wonder if BMW would introduce a 6-cylinder 5’er in M540i guise with the B58. I think that would offer good blend of power and premiumness. For sure, the economy will be sorely missed.

[SID7115]

Just checked BMW website a few weeks ago, their configurator had a lot of models missing, like the G20 SWB 3 series, X4 and X6
I went to the configurator page for both the 5 and the 6 series, and noticed that this beauty of an engine has been discontinued!!!!
Although I have experienced an F10 520d in 2017 and found it adequate, this engine made the driving experience a whole lot better.
Also, the entire lineup has been rejigged as well.
The 258bhp 2.0 petrol has been removed from the X3, it only comes with a diesel now
The X5 only has the M Sport trim, no xLine available now.
630i only has an M Sport trim and the 620d has a Luxury Line trim.

All I can say is, "Farewell".....

P.S. - The first thing that came to my mind after hearing this was, "What would GTO's reaction???", because the only person who comes to mind when I hear 530d is GTO!!!!

Cheers
Siddharth

[ProLearner]

The 530d is much better of a car than the 3, with very good performance. 5 Series is better built, and has better materials, fit and finish.

Originally Posted by pratika

While it’s sad that the legendary 530d is discontinued. I wonder if BMW would introduce a 6-cylinder 5’er in M540i guise with the B58. I think that would offer good blend of power and premiumness. For sure, the economy will be sorely missed.

We can hope. But the 540i with 48v hybrid is just a core 5er. Not the M car. The M "lite" (we can call it, like the M340i) is the M550, with the V8.
But watching BMW India's direction looking at the new X1 engines, looks like it is less likely they launch the B58 540 here.

[el lobo 6061]

CAFE2 Norms from 01 April 2023 are to blame. Nothing else.

BMW CAFE2 Norm CO2 target: 140 g/km

BMW 20d emits 130 g/km

BMW 30d emits 188 g/km

BWM will curtail the sales on 30d engines to only very low selling cars like X5 and X7.

So as to manage the average CO2 emission across the range within 140 g/km.

BMW losing its own DNA by dropping these 30d engines as that is what made them BMW and Ultimate Driving Machine for enthusiasts.

530d, X3 30d F25 and 630d will be missed.

[cedricsg]

Is the 530iM Sport still available? It appears all the cars that I am fond off just disappear. The standard 3 Series and now this one. An enthusiast sedan is going to be a rare breed. I guess, I better grab the 340i before it vanishes in 2025/26.

[d3mon]

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

BMW 20d emits 130 g/km

BMW 30d emits 188 g/km

In the 5 series, 520d is 130g/km but the 530d was 150g/km. Pre BS6 530D was just 141g! In fact the petrol 530i has higher emissions at 157 g/km

So I don't think CAFE alone is to blame, otherwise they'd have killed the 530i.

[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by d3mon

In the 5 series, 520d is 130g/km but the 530d was 150g/km. Pre BS6 530D was just 141g! In fact the petrol 530i has higher emissions at 157 g/km

So I don't think CAFE alone is to blame, otherwise they'd have killed the 530i.

Thanks for sharing the spec sheet. Capturing some key points from it.

Pre-BS6
520d emits 117 g/km
530d emits 141 g/km

Whereas

BS6 RDE CAFE2
520d emits 130 g/km

Which means tougher emission norms result in higher CO2 emission in 20d engine?

So likewise 30d in current BS6 X5 is emitting 188 g/km whereas Pre-BS6 530d was at 141 g/km.

Now only a technical person can explain why CO2 emission increases with tougher BS6 RDE CAFE2 norms.

Petrol 30i any ways sells less. Will be axed next.

[84.monsoon]

Sad to lose such an iconic car from the line up.

However, I feel it may not be the end of the road for 530D. A car maker like BMW needs aspirational models and variants that embody the personality of the brand. For every 10 buyers who buy a 3 cylinder 136 BHP X1, there needs to be a friend in their Circle who is a brand ambassador, one who owns a 530D that they can all admire and aspire for someday - This keeps the faith in the brand and allows the riff-raff variants like the X1 petrol to co-exist.

My gut feel is that BMW is trying to simplify it's portfolio in preparation for the upcoming RDE and CAFE 2 norms. They are dropping some variants based on a combination of volume, profitability and emissions to have a lean simple portfolio to start the year with. They want to gain experience and confidence for a quarter or two, to make sure they are able to comply with a healthy buffer for any unknowns. They need to keep the highest volume models which are also profitable in the line up and lose lower volume models which are high CO2 emitters. Once they see the overall sales mix and impact of the variant mix, and ensure they can meet the overall norms, I feel they will then reintroduce some of the iconic variants they have dropped now, selectively back the mix.

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

So likewise 30d in current BS6 X5 is emitting 188 g/km whereas Pre-BS6 530d was at 141 g/km.

The emissions are not just based on the engine, but also the weight that the engine is hauling. The 530D is way lighter than the X5 which has a larger body and heavy XDrive gear.

[d3mon]

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

So likewise 30d in current BS6 X5 is emitting 188 g/km whereas Pre-BS6 530d was at 141 g/km.

Now only a technical person can explain why CO2 emission increases with tougher BS6 RDE CAFE2 norms.

Figures for BS6 530d are in the spec sheets that I attached as well - 150g/km. Don't need to bring the X5 into comparison here.

BS6 norms resulted in a lower efficiency and higher CO2 for most cars (petrol & diesel). I think the reason is that when you run too lean, it can result in incomplete combustion which is the primary cause of NOx emissions. Hence, the manufacturers must have had to ensure that they never run too lean even during transition periods (on to off throttle and vice versa, turbo spool etc) that results in lower fuel efficiency and higher CO2, but lower NOx.

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

Now only a technical person can explain why CO2 emission increases with tougher BS6 RDE CAFE2 norms.

My understanding is that the RDE norms are about the way emissions are measured rather than being an emission standard itself like BS6. Emissions are measured in more real-life conditions, and vehicles need to be recertified according to the new emission measurements, leading to increased CO2 emission measurement. I remember the same happened when EU shifted from NEDC to WLTP in 2018.

[inwester]

Originally Posted by lordrayden

But still:
XUV700 Diesel AT @ 18L ex-showroom: 182 BHP and 450 NM
BMW 520d M Sport (I repeat, M Sport) @ 69L ex-showroom: 188 BHP and 400 NM

Hmm .

Originally Posted by Mustang_Boss

I really am not sure what you are implying with your comparison. Both are good, look similar, but they are completely different.

I'm not 100% sure what member was trying to imply, but here is how I would interpret it.

Historically, luxury car manufacturers charged a premium, by putting out a bigger and more powerful engine, AWD, beautiful design, luxury features (e.g. leather seats, better audio), technology (e.g. digital instrumental cluster), etc. apart from charging for the brand. You simply can't buy an AWD Honda Accord.

However in the last decade or so, the advent of SUVs/Crossovers changed that. What also changed is the innovation and availability of features from a technology standpoint, it became affordable and democratized. Along with it the mainstream manufacturers also started designing better and providing luxury features.

This applies particularly in India, where any car is still a luxury for most people. The mainstream cars have gotten so good, comes loaded with features and are as powerful as their luxury counterparts.

In India where most manufacturers have progressed, the luxury market seems to have regressed.

Case in point -
530d to 520d
The new BMW X1
The new Mercedes Benz C class
Audi / Volvo not offering choice of powertrains etc.