[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by TSI_Exhaust

Having owned the car for 4 months now, today I weigh the value of his words in gold.

So coming back to these VW 2.0 cars, yes, not making an excuse, the cabin could do with a bit more features but what about offerings from other brands not giving you the right kind of high strength steel at places where it matters thereby compromising on body shell stability and strength?
Same goes for the recently launched Verna and the presentation. There was no mention of high strength steel.

P.S. If anyone thinks I am bashing the Koreans, my previous car was a Hyundai Venue. I got wiser with time and learned about things that matter.

.

The Skoda salesman you interacted with has done his job well.

Verna uses advanced high strength steel for 50% of the unibody underneath from - 2017 onwards , Koreans are known for their steel and it would be old news to talk about it now but ADAS - that thing is high tech now, makes sense to focus on it instead.

It's early days of your VAG experience , perhaps not the best time to pick a side.

[TSI_Exhaust]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Verna uses advanced high strength steel for 50% of the unibody underneath from - 2017 onwards , Koreans are known for their steel and it would be old news to talk about it now but ADAS - that thing is high tech now, makes sense to focus on it instead.

It's early days of your VAG experience , perhaps not the best time to pick a side.

Koreans are known for their steel? Does the current gen Creta's (being sold in India) unstable body shell ring a bell?

Don't really care what Hyundai has been doing with the Verna in the years gone past. As an informed buyer I want to know the actual picture upfront of stuff that is being sold RIGHT NOW. And as far as that is concerned, if I were a customer I have no info.

ADAS in a country like ours, where we don't follow the basic road etiquette of lane driving, is good to have but not a deal breaker if it is absent as a feature.

As far as early days of my VAG experience is concerned, the 2.0L TSI in the Octavia hasn't had widespread issues globally nor has the DQ381 gearbox had widespread issues. I am covered under warranty and trust the brand like any car owner of any manufacturer would. This is the confidence that will change the mindset of the masses.

[Bhupesh_2628]

The customers who buy VW-Skoda are a small percentage of the buying populace. That’s why we feel like they are selling less.

Their requirements are different from the rest and they are ready to compromise on few factors like resale value, service costs and reliability (mainly on the gearbox). The first two can be improved only if people buy them in good numbers while the third factor can be a hit/miss due to over-engineered components which can be taken care of using extended warranty.

VW-Skoda group themselves know that they can’t compete with the sales numbers recorded by other brands. But I’m sure they may have met their projected sales expectations.

No harm in buying products based on new strategy (like VW-Skoda 2.0) from any struggling brand unless you’re willing to take risks on the above factors.

Honestly, there’s no way any manufacturer would grow in India unless and until people buy their products. I understand the shortcomings people are reporting in VW-Skoda products that they were not expecting early on.
But there’s no other way for the manufacturer to understand their products unless people buy them and come up with their complaints for the company to take action, troubleshoot and improve their experiences.

Buying their products helps them in the following ways:
1) Know their product’s shortcomings from ownership reviews, complaints coming up in the service centers.
2) Improving their market research and studies.
3) Making reliable products in future facelifts and subsequent generations.
4) Increase in the number of service centers along with spare parts availability and troubleshooting problems.

[Zippy_wheels]

The top 3-4 brands in india have been in the maket for much more time than vw,/skoda. Maruti has been there forever, I remember hyundai santro was available in 1996. Tata has built trust with their trucks since independence. I remember seeing Honda city in early 2000's. Compared to that, the earliest VW's I remember was passat and polo's, and passat looked expensive and not a mass market car(my thought just looking at then go past). Octavia was a pretty common car (relatively) in the late 2000's but other than that this brand has not been in the market as long as the others.

I have had VW's for the past 7 years (polo and now virtus) and my two major gripes with the brand are:-

1)Their service centers in tier 2/3 cities do not have ready stock of parts. They know that there are frequent ABS issues in polo/vento but they will not keep the ABS sensors in stock. Suspension is a common item that will probably need to get replaced in a few years, yet they dont keep it ready. Even if your car is well built with good reliable parts, there will always be accidents, and parts will be needed.

2) The service centers do not acknowledge an issue, when there is actually one. Go to a service center and ask them about power window issues - they will show a confused face as if this is the first time they heard of it - and this is even after you have purchased the car. The company would do well to educate their staff about known issues, fixes, if available, or even just acknowledge and say they are investigating and working on it. All a customer needs is validation of their issues and acknowledgement that it is noted and will be fixed.

VW/skoda sales seem better than before but they will never top the charts, just because their penetration in tier2/tier3/villages is not good.
While I see quite a few of these cars in mumbai/pune/blore/kol/delhi, I hardly see them elsewhere and accessory shops do not even keep after-market accessories for VW/skoda in these cities.

If they want to be a mass market brand in india, they need to win the confidence of people living in the smaller towns and cities and for that they need to go out and advertize, show their presence there - maybe give attractive discounts in these areas where people are money consious(more), create a bigger network of service centers throughout the country (or maybe tie-up's) and when they start flooding these markets, their sales numbers will go up automatically.

[pepega]

When I test drove the Slavia 1.0 automatic, I had the feeling that I missed out. I really enjoyed driving it and was thinking that if I had waited a bit longer, maybe I could have gone for it. Then I saw that the top-end 1.0 automatic was priced at 16 lakhs ex-showroom and all those doubts disappeared.

I feel that my car gives a similar experience, similar power figures and an excellent automatic transmission for a price 4 lakhs cheaper ex-showroom. It has some premium features on top of the Slavia that I test drove. So, the only thing I'm missing is a longer wheelbase and a big boot. But other than that? Nothing worth 4 lakhs tbh.

Just my 2 cents.

[vinya_jag]

I don't think they are Failed products. They seem to be matching Hyundai according to these numbers, if we consider a sedan + crossover + suv combination.

Creta + Venue + Verna - 12866 + 11,033 + 1654 (1736 showrooms in 831 cities)
Taigun + Virtus - 1657 + 1563 (206 showrooms in 130 cities)

Hyundai averaged 30 cars per City, 14 per showroom
VW averaged 25 cars per City, 16 per showroom

I see quite a lot of these cars on Bangalore roads. It has always been the case with the Polo or the Vento, or any of these VW/ Skoda cars.

I am not supporting VW or Skoda for having put out the Slavia and the Kushaq or the Virtus and the Taigun. They both are poor upgrades of their erstwhile Brothers. But they also have a significant cost disadvantage to their Korean counterparts.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...-minister.html (Hyundai and Kia cost India billions of $ in trade deficit: Union Commerce Minister)

[LEOMAN]

I think all the manufacturers are taking Indians for a ride with inflated price. In China and US prices have started to fall steeply maybe 30-40% discounts are being offered to clear the piled up inventory. Secondly I don't think Kushaq or Taigun are as well built as Rapid , Polo or Jetta's of yesteryears. I will still pick a Sonnet , Seltos or Creta diesel automatic with torque convertor over any DCTs for diesel practicality and torque convertors reliability.
Buying at this prices of over 20l for a 1.5 petrol with DCT and suffering later for life is foolishness I feel.

[jishnu7]

A couple of months back, when someone I know was looking for a vehicle, I suggested Taigun & Kushaq. Here are the reasons why he didn't buy, even when safety was a concern.

1. Both are physically smaller than Creta/Seltos.
2. 1L - 3 cylinders sounded like overpriced when Creta/Seltos were offering 1.5L 4 cylinders at the similar starting prices.
3. 1.5L top-end versions were ~22L and his question was, If paying more than 20L, why shouldn't he consider Harrier (~23L full option) or ~25L Compass.
4. The interior of creta/seltos was significantly better than taigun/kushaq. He can understand for the starting models they are good enough, but for 20L above vehicle, cheap looking interiors won't do.
5. Many more features available in the Korean sisters.

In the end, he ended up buying Seltos Petrol GT for 18.5L on road - comparable Taigun/Kushaq were a couple of lakh higher with many features missing.

[Latebloomer]

The reason I rejected the 1.0 version was because of its weak AC. It was practically unusable on a trip from Bangalore to Kerala where we have to cross tamilnadu and the sun is blazing like crazy. You can definitely get some cooling with higher fan speeds but then the sound would be pretty high inside the car. Also a 3 cylinder engine for that price didn't sound good..

[vij]

Why?

(Less car for more money + less service support for more money) < (More car for less money + more service support for less money)

Other than these. I cant think of much more

[shancz]

Originally Posted by SerArthurDayne

1. Kushaq & Taigun majorly have features similar to a compact SUV (sub 4m) and would've really slaughtered the competition if they were made a bit smaller & launched in this segment
2. If you really want to win in the current mid-SUV segment, maybe a facelift is in order. A Panoramic Sunroof, minor design tweaks with a splash of some new features will mostly do the trick. Also, nobody needs the crapy updates like the Kushaq Onyx Edition!
3. So, the next time you do market research before creating a car, don't forget to wear the shoes of real consumers and get out of your swanky offices. Common sense is all that is needed.

Good points and I agree with most of them.

1. Disagree, they've already tried and failed with the Ameo and that's proof enough to drive home the lesson of not aping others and playing on your strong points and credentials. While the cars themselves are apt in size, any smaller wouldn't work for someone like VW-Skoda who want to cater to other developing markets with the same vehicle which don't have a sub-4m tax incentive.
The current issue is the mismatch of the quality perceived or felt and the price being asked for the same. Adding to it is our perception of VW-Skoda to be premium cars and hence command a higher price but these cars are premium only in the price and only retaining the dynamics which lives up to the brands. The dynamics doesn't find many takers in our market. Leaving the current cars with FTD and arguably the best dynamics in their segment as the only USPs. With niggles, reliability issues and the general perception of expensive maintenance as the biggest factors left to deal with which reflects in their sales.

2. Agree and to add to it the Taigun Topline 1.0 TSi AT is around the 20 lakh on road mark and the other options at that price, in petrol, MSUVs are :
- Creta SX(O) 1.4 Turbo DCT
- Seltos X-Line 1.4 Turbo DCT
- HyRyder G strong hybrid
- Grand Vitara Zeta Plus strong Hybrid
- XUV700 AX5 P AT and many other cars which are significantly larger and arguably better on many counts.

3. Agree. From personal experience when a friend wanted to upgrade from his 8 year old Jazz, he was impressed by how good the Taigun 1.0 AT was to drive and how "solid" the car felt but he said that sitting inside it doesn't feel like an upgrade over my 8 year old Jazz and he was spot on. Looking at the competition at the same price(listed in 2. above) he was blown away and VW didn't come up further.

[sunilarkt]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Interior quality matters!

Kushaq-Taigun cabins have perhaps the worst touch and feel of all cars, 12L and above.

This is spot on! I have 2017 polo and its interior plastic quality, touch and feel is much better than new taigun and kushaq that cost twice as much. I always felt VW made difference in offering very good quality interiors! If they wanted to do cost cutting, then they should have done it elsewhere, but the interior is not it.

[ankur_fox]

Lack of features at the price point did it for me. Have a polo since 10 years and am scouting for a mid size SUV. The VW-Skoda twins were my first preference but was a huge disappointment. The only reason to buy them was the driving feel and build quality, not enough IMHO. The top model driver seat does not even have electrical adjustment, crazy.

[rAijin_]

Just sharing the perspective of a potential VW Taigun buyer ( myself ).

My first car was VW Polo. I just loved it. Although its maintenance was too expensive and I had many issues with the Service center. But every time I drove it, I loved it.

I am looking for an upgrade from my now aging Honda City and was waiting eagerly for VW / Skoda SUVs. My reasons for not booking it:

• Its size and boot space is much lesser than Honda City. VW / Skoda twin feel more like a sub-4 meter car.
• Although I love the 1.5 TSI, I'm scared of that DSG.
• I loved the fit and finish of VW polo. But not impressed with VW / Skoda twin's interior quality.
• I was a bachelor then, size didn't matter much. Fun to drive mattered more. I'm a family man now. Size matters and features matters for the family.
• If I was still a bachelor, I would have loved to get 1.5 TSI. But I wouldn't have had that much money

So, I pushed my budget and booked XUV 700 Petrol AX7L.
My Reasons:

• Bigger size, bigger boot ( with 5 seater ) and that imposing look.
• 200 bhp and 360NM torque on a petrol engine.
• A good feature list to satisfy me, the family and anyone joining us.

[sanchari]

One of my colleagues bought a Kushaq recently and I checked it out. I thought my 2016 Jazz felt more spacious than Kushaq inside while sitting in the front seat. It doesn't feel like a mid-size SUV, more like compact SUV. Other that that, it felt pretty good inside. The CVT felt smooth, didn't feel any jerks when I was in front passenger seat.