Team-BHP > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Search this Thread
Old 10th May 2023, 17:00   #76
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 151
Thanked: 747 Times
Re: Petroleum ministry panel: Ban diesel 4-wheelers in big cities by 2027

Quote:
Originally Posted by shubhsd View Post
There is a BIG difference.
I will still have to disagree with you on this one. An oversimplified example would be - cleaning one's house and throwing the dirt/garbage out on the street expecting the municipal workers to clean it. The house will be clean, the street will still be dirty

Quote:
However I believe that it is a sacrifice all of us needs to make in order to have a better world for our children
I am okay if the fitness for a vehicle won't be renewed after say 15 years. Most private owners won't keep their vehicles that long. But cutting short the usable life of perfectly good vehicles like the NGT did in Delhi is making matters worse since the vehicles either have to be scrapped or sold at dirt cheap prices in surrounding states. We have seen multiple examples on this very forum itself. Paying 40-50% tax to purchase a vehicle from already taxed income only to realize that the vehicle is no longer road legal? That is a sacrifice I am not willing to make.
furyrider is offline   (11) Thanks
Old 10th May 2023, 18:15   #77
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Trichy
Posts: 4
Thanked: 74 Times
Re: Petroleum ministry panel: Ban diesel 4-wheelers in big cities by 2027

I feel all Diesel COMPLAINCE models (BS6 & BS6 PhII ) will be permitted to run and non compliant variants (before BS6) will be given a deadline date.
Sales of Compliant models should also be permitted as they are anyway compliant to pollution norms . Only thing is the premium will be high considering the cost incurred by auto makers in making it compliant to BS6 (Phase-II) .
abhighna87 is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 10th May 2023, 18:24   #78
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: KA01
Posts: 1,127
Thanked: 2,520 Times
Re: Petroleum ministry panel: Ban diesel 4-wheelers in big cities by 2027

The new car norms do precious little for all the old cars plying (which I assume might be predominantly BS4 or earlier) and a blanket ban by age is just a lazy shortcut

I wonder why we cannot have an MOT of UK style test of fitness of old cars on a rig, if it passes you can drive for a year and see you again next year. This is emissions fitness specifically which any owner is least bothered about

Last edited by GeeTee TSI : 10th May 2023 at 18:27.
GeeTee TSI is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 10th May 2023, 18:30   #79
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 143
Thanked: 238 Times
Re: Petroleum ministry panel: Ban diesel 4-wheelers in big cities by 2027

This is just one report , though details are still not out but have my doubts if this will be implemented. 2035 or 2040 may be. What will happen to the hundreds of public transport buses plying inside the cities and intercity? The transport will get paralysed. Will they also stop all coal power plants and diesel generators in the cities? Dont think it is happening in that timeframe.
neerajku is offline  
Old 10th May 2023, 20:09   #80
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2022
Location: Linkoping
Posts: 253
Thanked: 1,075 Times
Re: Petroleum ministry panel: Ban diesel 4-wheelers in big cities by 2027

Quote:
Originally Posted by batish View Post
If they mean, banning existing road worthy vehicles then Good Luck implementing this crap. Some people would be buying diesel vehicles in 2026, so that means their road worthiness is for a year?
I imagine there will be many backflips, confusion, protests, placation, lobbying, and what not before there will be any real clarity. Bans if any will likely only affect passenger vehicle segment and might not even encompass commercial use, but nobody knows for sure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrarirules View Post
Petroleum ministry energy transition advisory committee has submitted its final report and has recommended a diesel 4 wheeler ban in all cities with million plus population by 2027.

If implemented, this will be final nail in the coffin for diesel car and accelerate transition to EVs.
If implemented, it'll indeed sound the death knell for diesels but accelerate transition to EVs? Won't happen. Like we discussed in detail on another thread, EVs only make sense in very Alexis usecases, and for the most common ones, it just doesn't make sense. If the subsidies go, it makes even less sense.

[quote=tarmacnaut;554371Good move, Diesel pollutes several times more than petrol. Its high time.

I hope the tax on diesel is also increased even further, to keep the petrol prices reasonable, let diesel become costlier. This will help both the environment and the general public.[/QUOTE]

An extremely shortsighted view, I'm afraid. For heavy hauling, nothing provides the efficiency of diesels. And simply increasing taxation brings knock on effects of runaway inflation as everything that needs transport, be it vegetables, grains, staples, and whatever will go up in price. Good luck with fixing that.
supermax is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 10th May 2023, 20:52   #81
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Panchkula
Posts: 66
Thanked: 105 Times
Re: Petroleum ministry panel: Ban diesel 4-wheelers in big cities by 2027

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnsood View Post
I don't know about others but some folks in Delhi must be reading this and thinking : it's ban time.

Last year they banned all BS4 and below cars during polution months. This time with the above report they can easily ban all diesel cars and be done with it
Exactly the first thought that came to my mind when I read the title
amritpal2489 is offline  
Old 10th May 2023, 21:05   #82
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,188
Thanked: 6,272 Times
Re: Petroleum ministry panel: Ban diesel 4-wheelers in big cities by 2027

What will the politicians do with their beloved Scorpios, ScorpioNs and Fortuners? Or will Toyota come up with a hybrid Fortuner with another lakh or so added to the already undeserving price tag.
fhdowntheline is online now   (1) Thanks
Old 10th May 2023, 21:25   #83
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: India
Posts: 199
Thanked: 569 Times
Re: Petroleum ministry panel: Ban diesel 4-wheelers in big cities by 2027

Pure headline news due to the upcoming election and a way to seek votebank.
This can not be achieved at any cost no matter what.

US has been unable to do it yet. India is 10-15 years behind. You get the gist.
bhphog is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 10th May 2023, 22:18   #84
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2023
Location: India
Posts: 93
Thanked: 121 Times
Re: Petroleum ministry panel: Ban diesel 4-wheelers in big cities by 2027

I don't think it will happen. If the Government actually do it, it'll be a DUMB move on their part. There is a huge MAY used in the article. Our EV infrastructure is not mature enough yet and diesel cars are still selling. If this preposterous rule gets approval then we truly are getting ruled by monkeys.
Firstly Government need to stop the production of these cars and further renewal of RCs. That can happen by 2027 but complete ban is not feasible. We are a very populous country and a lot of cities come under the ambit of that 1M+ population cities.
It's not wrong to give suggestions but they should realistic. This feels more like the Committee members were high on something and have too much time on hands. This better stays in just papers.
Or they saying someone who just bought a car this year will only be valid for less than four years. That's absurd. I hope it's a step by step transmission rather than being a radical in your face one.
Clown Prince is offline  
Old 10th May 2023, 22:20   #85
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Jamshedpur
Posts: 4
Thanked: 11 Times
Re: Petroleum ministry panel: Ban diesel 4-wheelers in big cities by 2027

I was one of the co-authors for one of the first reports on scenarios for EVs in India. The report was published by UNEP in 2014. I will share my quick thoughts on the subject.
1) More EVs can help us integrate more renewables in the national grid. This was clearly mentioned in our report.
2) Any outright sudden policy reaction is both suboptimal in terms of policy effectiveness and policy efficiency. A gradual policy roadmap is what is more advisable.
3) There is still a lot of fuzziness about what makes a technology 'green'. Is it the tail pipe emissions? Is it the life cycle emissions? Is it based on the circular economy aspects? A clarity on the dimensions of 'greenness' is required otherwise we might lock into a technology which might come out to be not as green in future.
4) There are many scientific/technical reports comparing EVs with ICE vehicles on life cycle assessment (LCA) basis. The inference is that any blanket statement like Technology A is 'greener' than Technology B is often misleading. EVs can be 'greener' than ICE vehicles depending on the composition of charging grid/electricity, life cycle run of vehicle (in KMs), embedded emissions during the manufacturing of the two different vehicles etc.
5) While there are concerns on safety, storage, and viability of Hydrogen vehicles, on many parameters they are 'greener' than EVs.
6) The energy transition advisory committee contains experts from all domains and sectors and any statement dismissing them as brainless babus doesn't do full justice to their knowledge and experience.

I will keep it brief and will be happy to discuss more if needed.
bhakal22 is offline   (9) Thanks
Old 11th May 2023, 00:46   #86
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 25
Thanked: 47 Times
Re: Petroleum ministry panel: Ban diesel 4-wheelers in big cities by 2027

Given the private car diesel market is only about 18% or so remaining in India, my takeaway from all this is there is a good possibility that existing BS6.2 private cars may not be banned by 2027 and that new cars may also continue to be sold until then; however there is a very good possibility of stopping their sales completely by 2027. This will adversely affect the resale value of private diesel cars a few years from now as no one will want to even buy a user diesel car - even if it was a high-end luxury car.

However the case of commercial and transport diesel vehicles is another ball game. That has a higher market penetration and getting them off or banning new sales is an uphill task and I doubt that would happen by 2027 or even by 2030.

For new diesel private car buyers, (in my opinion) should they absolutely have to buy then they should forget about the resale value or option and just enjoy the car until itís life, which is to be determined.

Even though a policy is not passed, but I think this panel recommendation puts doubts in buyerís minds and anyone who was considering buying a new private diesel car would think again and may not buy today.

Itís such a smart move by the government - not banning outrightly but letting people decide themselves not to buy diesel vehicles today automatically reduces the % of such cars on the roads and that would further help them pass the final policy in the next 3-4 years. Itís like the movie ĎInceptioní - you plant the idea in such a way that the other person thinks itís their own idea but someone else is actually calling the shots!
Adsc0230 is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 11th May 2023, 01:26   #87
BHPian
 
man_and_machine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 513
Thanked: 439 Times
Re: Petroleum ministry panel: Ban diesel 4-wheelers in big cities by 2027

Ban or not, the industry takes much more long term view than the govt. They have clear commercial interest in keeping their stock alive. It's easy to mark down this recommendation a few years down the line from all to below some capacity. There by keeping the economy alive, but kill smaller passenger diesel engines. For instance the recommendation could be implemented as all below, say 2.5L or 3.0L etc. will be banned from 202x. That helps serve both green-ness initiative while keeping the economy alive.
Each alternative year, the BS x.x version will also keep getting tightened, which will naturally dissuade manufacturer from spending more diesel tech. There are many ways to achieve the same objective. Then there is the gradual easing up of the EV car prices. All these might happen independently, but simultaneously. So, no need to read too much into this recommendation, just look at how the winds are blowing.
man_and_machine is offline  
Old 11th May 2023, 05:13   #88
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,188
Thanked: 6,272 Times
Re: Petroleum ministry panel: Ban diesel 4-wheelers in big cities by 2027

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhphog View Post
Pure headline news due to the upcoming election and a way to seek votebank.
This can not be achieved at any cost no matter what.

US has been unable to do it yet. India is 10-15 years behind. You get the gist.
That country has a long history of preaching to others what it self doesnt follow. Its really up to the govt of the day here as to how it wants to see its energy goals achieved. Is it for real tangible improvement or to look good in the eyes of the West, more specifically.
fhdowntheline is online now  
Old 11th May 2023, 07:52   #89
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 11
Thanked: 39 Times
Re: Petroleum ministry panel: Ban diesel 4-wheelers in big cities by 2027

Mod Note : Please do NOT post messages that add little or no informational value to the thread. We need your co-operation to maintain the quality of this forum.

Also, one-liner posts are best avoided.

We advise you to read the Forum Rules before proceeding any further. Request to post ONLY when you have something substantial to add to a discussion.

Last edited by GTO : 20th May 2023 at 08:37.
Aditikpurohit is offline   Received Infraction
Old 11th May 2023, 08:59   #90
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: HYDERABAD
Posts: 157
Thanked: 448 Times
Re: Petroleum ministry panel: Ban diesel 4-wheelers in big cities by 2027

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarmacnaut View Post
Good move, Diesel pollutes several times more than petrol. Its high time.
With the advent of Diesel CRDi engines, now they have become clean energy. Now they are as least polluting as petrols and now they are also quite punchy and more fuel efficient that petrols. Diesels were typically sluggish and powerless but now Common Rail coupled with turbo, gives them a heartbeat skipping performance. High torque give a soul pleasuring performance, ofcourse not as much as the electrics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarmacnaut View Post
The subsidy on Diesel should have been stopped a decade ago, IMO Diesel had one of the useless subsidy thanks to the bygone era "Socialist" Indian Government policies. The only people who benefitted from this are the already fat business men who never really bothered to pay the full tax but saved huge sums in diesel operated vehicles, both passenger/commercial and few diesel car owners.
You cannot simply pass on blame to the previous governments and policies as they were the cheapest and most fuel efficient source of transport and the world over were using it. Also number of vehicles sales were too less, to think about pollution and consequences. LPG and CNG were very primitive sources for use in transport industry. They have done what was apt for the time. Also food came to your tables as a low cost because diesel was subsidised and that helped keep inflation low. Today pulses and oils are 300 times the price in 2012-13 coz we removed subsidy on diesels in pursuit that market will adopt another cheaper source of 'cleaner' energy, but that did not happen. Now CNG, LPG have become more economical, but past year the current regime raised prices of CNG, causing fall of sales but recently again lowered them. So current government lacks clear sight neither allowing the market to adapt nor show a credible path, causing confusion to the manufacturers and the end users. Electrics will be not feasible for long distance transport and still diesels are only choice as large batteries require a lot of power draw from the grid and that is scarcity. Only last mile delivery is feasible in electrics.

Last edited by DRPSREDDY : 11th May 2023 at 09:01.
DRPSREDDY is offline   (4) Thanks
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks