[santosh.s]

Originally Posted by opendro

Obviously it has to be bad (me not expert though). Clutch is basically to delink the gear system from the engine drive shaft and then to gradually sync them together. Without clutch, it should give some grinding sound internally indicating improper synchronization.

It is definitely bad while changing gears or going from neutral to a gear. But releasing a gear, meaning going to neutral position (not another gear) should be safe I believe. In earlier case, you would be trying to lock two gears (toothed wheels) rotating at unequal speed, but in the later case you are unlocking them when they are rotating at same speed. There should not be any issue of grinding or damage in this case. It does mean no engine breaking though, hence more load on brakes (if used) and less safety.

Ok. I'm not expert. I will too wait for another expert to give the exact technicals.

Who is the first expert here? You, I guess! Anyway, I don't want to be a self-proclaimed expert.

[SLK]

Originally Posted by SLK

My car seems to be returning close to 15km/l (estimated) in city with 100% ac in it's first tank.

Ok, first tank is over. Came out to be 14.75km/l with 100% ac in Delhi.

Second tank started and so did I get my first stratch! (an Indica [as per eye witnesses] scratched the bumper of my parked car!)

BTW the car Ritz VDi.

[GKS]

With Xenon with 2+2 I get 13+ on highway and approximately 11 on city traffic/country roads with full A/C and full tank

But please take a note that this is without anything at the back.

And about releasing the gear without using the clutch I am not in favor

[funda2max]

Ritz VDi

City : 14.5 KMPL (90% AC)
Highways : 21 KMPL (100% AC)

Tank to tank filling.

[AltoHoncho]

Age of the car: 4.5 months
Driving Condition: Mostly city driving
Kms: 5000
Mileage: 18 - 19.5 (depending on the traffic conditions)
Driving Style: moderate, single handling

Mostly while slowing down I let the gears do the work rather than braking hard and lowering the gears. This perhaps reduces the clutch plate wear-tear. Also, saves on fluid consumption. Have taken it on highway only once, and I attained 21.5 Kph. Now planning a real test of this machine, planning a round trip 3000 Kms, from Pune to Jaipur. Will be an approx 20 hrs driving with one halt one-way. Will keep all updated 'bout it.

[gpa]

Originally Posted by AltoHoncho

Age of the car: 4.5 months
Driving Condition: Mostly city driving
Kms: 5000
Mileage: 18 - 19.5 (depending on the traffic conditions)
Driving Style: moderate, single handling

Mostly while slowing down I let the gears do the work rather than braking hard and lowering the gears. This perhaps reduces the clutch plate wear-tear. Also, saves on fluid consumption. Have taken it on highway only once, and I attained 21.5 Kph.

AltoHoncho,

That's really good FE you are getting from the Alto. My car gives the same as well in the city, but then again its highly dependent on driving conditions. As for the long trip, I got ~25 kmpl with 100% a/c on one of my drives. This is just so that you know what to expect on the highway.

Cheers,
gpa

[musicmanaman]

Originally Posted by AltoHoncho

Age of the car: 4.5 months
Driving Condition: Mostly city driving
Kms: 5000
Mileage: 18 - 19.5 (depending on the traffic conditions)
Driving Style: moderate, single handling

Mostly while slowing down I let the gears do the work rather than braking hard and lowering the gears. This perhaps reduces the clutch plate wear-tear. Also, saves on fluid consumption. Have taken it on highway only once, and I attained 21.5 Kph. Now planning a real test of this machine, planning a round trip 3000 Kms, from Pune to Jaipur. Will be an approx 20 hrs driving with one halt one-way. Will keep all updated 'bout it.

Your FE is very good, my car gives 1/3 of your FE.

I'm sure it's got to do with your driving style as well, I think Alto generally with 100% AC under normal city driving conditions would give about 12 kmpl, that's what I guess I would get if I drive one.

[archat68]

Car model: Maruti Zen, Carb, 1999
Age of the car: 10 years approx
Driving Condition: 40% city and 60 % city outskirts where 60-80KM/Hr is possible, Without A.C.
Kms in ODO: 83400
Mileage: about 17KM/L, should increase as I've just got it serviced yesterday.
Driving Style: moderate, single handling
Fuel: Normal unleaded petrol

[musicmanaman]

Originally Posted by archat68

Driving Condition: 40% city and 60 % city outskirts where 60-80KM/L is possible, Without A.C.

I'm sure you have made a Typo there.

[archat68]

Sorry for the typo. edited the earlier post .

[enigma1982]

Hi - I filled my new Optra petrol (which was given almost with an empty fuel tank to me by the dealer) with around 26.7 liters petrol and it has become almost empty again after around 160 km. This is a fuel economy of only 6 KMPL. I always knew that Optra petrol will be a gas guzzler but is I am honestly shocked at this fuel economy. I had read reviews of people getting 10-12 on their Optra and that is what I was expecting.

I live in Gurgaon - it has been driven approximately 42 km on highway conditions (NH-8) and remaining 120 km in normal city. I normally do not let RPM exceed over 2K (given that it is the run-in period).

Some questions for the forum members, especially those who own an Optra:

1. My office is just 4 km from my home - so on an average my daily run is only 8-10 km. Does driving very small distances also affect fuel efficiency negatively?
2. I am aware that after run-in say 2000 km or so and first servicing / oil change etc the fuel efficiency may improve a bit - but having bought a Santro in 2004 - I know that this improvement is not substantial (I got around 12-13 KMPL which increased to 14-15 KMPL). Does this mean I am stuck with a car that at best will always give me 8 KMPL? or do you thing it will improve
3. This is a 2008 model which was standing in the factory for almost 1 year before I purchased it in August (which is the reason I got around 60K additional discount on the car) - do you think - this may have affected the initial fuel efficiency
4. It is possible for me to pay a little extra to the dealer and get a diesel LT (Rs 160,000) to be precise. This will make me get exactly same LT but no sun-roof. I know that mileage of diesel will be better but is there anyone who can tell me will it be worth the difference? My monthly driving will be around 700-800 km.

Sorry for the long post but I need to decide by next 2 days and so I wrote such a long post.

[ImmortalZ]

Originally Posted by enigma1982

Hi - I filled my new Optra petrol (which was given almost with an empty fuel tank to me by the dealer) with around 26.7 liters petrol and it has become almost empty again after around 160 km. This is a fuel economy of only 6 KMPL. I always knew that Optra petrol will be a gas guzzler but is I am honestly shocked at this fuel economy. I had read reviews of people getting 10-12 on their Optra and that is what I was expecting.

The first tank of petrol will always give you horrendous mileage.

Originally Posted by enigma1982

My office is just 4 km from my home - so on an average my daily run is only 8-10 km. Does driving very small distances also affect fuel efficiency negatively?

Yes. Since the car is barely allowed to warm up to operating temperature before you finish you run, the engine operates at it's highest wear and tear and lowest efficiency for the majority of your usage.

Originally Posted by enigma1982

I am aware that after run-in say 2000 km or so and first servicing / oil change etc the fuel efficiency may improve a bit - but having bought a Santro in 2004 - I know that this improvement is not substantial (I got around 12-13 KMPL which increased to 14-15 KMPL). Does this mean I am stuck with a car that at best will always give me 8 KMPL? or do you thing it will improve

Mileage should stabilize after the first two or so tankfuls to a KMPL or two below what you will eventually get. After that, improvement will be gradual, if any.

Originally Posted by enigma1982

This is a 2008 model which was standing in the factory for almost 1 year before I purchased it in August (which is the reason I got around 60K additional discount on the car) - do you think - this may have affected the initial fuel efficiency

If you followed the T-BHP checklist, you should be fine. However, I will never take a car that has been idle for a year. Possible problems include bad wheel bearings which will bring down your FE because of much higher rolling resistance.

Originally Posted by enigma1982

It is possible for me to pay a little extra to the dealer and get a diesel LT (Rs 160,000) to be precise. This will make me get exactly same LT but no sun-roof. I know that mileage of diesel will be better but is there anyone who can tell me will it be worth the difference? My monthly driving will be around 700-800 km.

Your running seems way too low for a diesel. It'll take years upon years for you to make even on the price differential and that is without taking into account the higher maintenance costs. However, you have a petrol car that has been laying idle for one year. A difficult situation I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by enigma1982

Sorry for the long post but I need to decide by next 2 days and so I wrote such a long post.

Long posts equal detailed posts. Don't be sorry.

[rageshgr]

My Santro Xing Automatic gives me about 9-10 kpl, with A/C always on and driven at mostly 90-120 kph.

[sanjubaba]

I am getting overall FE of >20 from my Swift VDI.

In city driving that I have mentioned 50% is through dense traffic, that is in the after noon. 50% is late night, thanks to my office time.

[IMG]file:///D:/DOCUME%7E1/SANJEE%7E1.SAP/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG]

[enigma1982]

Possible problems include bad wheel bearings which will bring down your FE because of much higher rolling resistance.

I have opted for a CPCOO (Cashless ownership) and therefore, if there is a way to prove to them that wheel bearings have indeed turned bad / old - they will replace it free of cost. The car does feel very smooth to drive so would appreciate if there are symptoms to identify bad wheel bearings.

The dealer is also promising that because of 3 years cashless promise any issue with any part will equal immediate replacement and all I need to pay is for petrol for 3 years - after your post my fear is that if it consistently returns 7-8 kmpl given my driving - I may just want to buy a diesel - pay up heavy one time and then smile at each tank-up.

Your running seems way too low for a diesel. It'll take years upon years for you to make even on the price differential and that is without taking into account the higher maintenance costs. However, you have a petrol car that has been laying idle for one year. A difficult situation I'm afraid.

Yes - 800 km * 12 ~ 10,000 km a year which would mean roughly 4 years to recover the differential. However, I believe from my research and what I read on this forum as well that the modern diesel engines (especially optra magnums 2.0 tcdi) does not have a significantly higher maintainance cost over a petrol one. I was also considering that the drive in Diesel may be more enjoyable given its power and it will be safer given dual airbags and ABS.

That said - I will not go off topic which is mileage. Assuming I would retain this 1.6 LT - what is the mileage I can expect for:

1) Short hauls like 4 km run to office (one way) at 3rd or 4th gear at avg speed of 40-60 kmph

2) Weekly visits to Delhi - run of around 80 km (total) at 4th and 5th gear at average speed of 60-70 kmph (though stoppages and idling at redlights)

3) Occasional highway drive on NH8 to Manesar or Jaipur or Udaipur from Delhi (Never driven much on highways but expect it to be a lot smoother)

Final question - what is a realistic mileage I can expect from 2.0 LT Optra Magnum petrol on the above three situations - this will help me analyze the break even and communicate the decision to the dealer tomorrow.

Long posts equal detailed posts. Don't be sorry.

Appreciate your detailed reply - your answers will help as I need to decide by tomorrow and let the dealer know if I am retaining the Petrol 1.6 LT (sunroof - no ABS) or want the Diesel 2.0 LT (ABS - no sunroof)