[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by ashwin.terminat

Mahindra's XUV700 petrol engine is also not equipped for E20 fuel.

Attachment 2455020

Mahindra is correct with its stand as per regulatory requirements

From 01 April 2023 cars sold need to have E20 material compatibility.

From 01 April 2025 cars sold will have engines tuned for E20 fuel. Since PAN India roll out is from that date onwards.

Hopefully a ECU update by OEM be enough to get current petrol engines to E20 combustion compatible.

[Jangra]

My summary long story short - as of now, there is one car out of a million on our roads which are E20 complaint. We cannot be ruled by a government who decides only in favour of one and leave the other million to rot. Right?
My speculation - good chance that E10 will be sold in abundance for the next 15 years while E20 pods will be cheaper to serve the newer vehicles.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by Jangra

My summary long story short - as of now, there is one car out of a million on our roads which are E20 complaint. We cannot be ruled by a government who decides only in favour of one and leave the other million to rot. Right?
My speculation - good chance that E10 will be sold in abundance for the next 15 years while E20 pods will be cheaper to serve the newer vehicles.

Do they write on petrol dispensers whether it's E10 or E20 we are buying? Govt might have quietly ordered oil cos. to sell only E20. Maybe they already stopped selling E10. How many folks outside automotive forums know what's E10 or E20? Isn't it cheating if they sell E20 at the same price as E10? Where is the price cut? Also, what guarantee do we have that E20 will not turn into E30 in a year or two? Or, E40 after that. Then E50, E60, E70, E80? Do we keep junking our cars every two years? And, lastly our govt. will sell even E80 at the same price as E10.

[Carpainter]

Originally Posted by Jangra

My speculation - good chance that E10 will be sold in abundance for the next 15 years while E20 pods will be cheaper to serve the newer vehicles.

But when our beloved country is already plagued with widespread fuel adulteration, how do you expect that you'll get E10 fuel instead of E20 if both are sold from same station specially if there is a price premium for E10 fuel in future. At the end of the day it's another expense that vehicle owners will have to bear. I just hope that E10 engines can be converted to E20 compatible at a reasonable cost.

[FrozeninTime]

2023 Maruti Alto K10 manual recommends to use not more than 10% ethanol blended gasoline, however it also states that car can be driven with 20% ethanol blended gasoline. So it seems Maruti truthful about its E20 compliant Vehicles.

[Dr ST]

Dear all,
I recently enquired about the same to Lexus Kochi's executive. Pin-drop silence from the other end. No reply. It indirectly means that they are not E20 compliant as of now and they don't let the public know about it either. I was surprised that the executive didn't even bother to answer the question, opposite to what the customer service of Lexus stands for.

Regards

[GeeTee TSI]

Well well, an eye opener of a response (M&M) on material compatibility and (full) performance compatibility

Does that mean a performance impact (VW diesel gate fix plays on my mind) for pre BS6.2 vehicles and if so, of what nature?

Also bring to mind the unleaded petrol era where many of the (old) carburettor engine vehicles had issues of knocking

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by GeeTee TSI

Well well, an eye opener of a response (M&M) on material compatibility and (full) performance compatibility

Does that mean a performance impact (VW diesel gate fix plays on my mind) for pre BS6.2 vehicles and if so, of what nature?

Also bring to mind the unleaded petrol era where many of the (old) carburettor engine vehicles had issues of knocking

Performance and fuel efficiency will both take a hit as ethanol % increases. Calorific value of ethanol is a third less than petrol, and the effect will be proportionate. In plain and simple words, ethanol blending is adulteration being made official.

[fiat_tarun]

This is actually a really bad move by the government (making blended fuel the only option without proper communication). The info shared during interactions with someone from a large OEM is that the fuel being retailed as on date is already around E12 (national average). The price benefit has also not been passed on to the end user.

With the government on a mission to reduce the oil import bill, this has been done without enough research on how the existing vehicle parc will run on blended fuel. In the long term vehicles not designed for blended fuels will have issues with the fuel system and seals.

If E20 becomes the default fuel, the effect will be even worse and this actually should be taken up as a PIL - to offer normal and blended fuels (priced differently) and let the customer choose as in other countries.

[Silver Knight]

Currently, we are getting E12 (12% Ethanol blended) petrol from the petrol pumps. So what should we do with our older cars which are not designed to run on E12 or higher fuels? All cars run smoothly with E12 petrol (anyway we don't have any other option). Don't know the longterm effect though. However, the government is planning to rise the Ethanol percentage to 20% and needs to see how the cars not designed to run on max E12 behave to E20 petrol

[Sierra__foxtrot]

Folks, I never understood this E10 or E20 fuel problem, so please enlighten me one this E10 fiasco. So let’s say I have a BS6 polo and its e10 compatible, now what are all the problems I will face while using E20 fuel as compared to E10 fuel. Will it damage my engine or should I change any new parts here to make it E20 compatible.

[anilp]

The e20 effect might be more severe than we anticipate if we go by this explainer video from Powerdrift. This is the next version of completely wiping out the relevance of our valued vehicles after the mindless diesel bans.

https://youtu.be/SUzrXIU8LHM

[NewUser123]

“ In 2011, the EPA approved an increase of 15% ethanol blend for use in light-duty conventional vehicles of model year 2001 and newer, but prohibited gas stations from selling it between June 1 and Sept. 15 because of concerns that it adds to smog in high temperatures.”

“ Biden administration official say the short-term move will have little effect on the environment and that EPA will work with states to "ensure there are no significant air quality impacts through the summer driving season.''

Environmentalists questioned that, saying ethanol production contributes to greenhouse gas emissions and soil erosion and raises prices for corn and other crops.

A recent report in the Proceedings of the National Academy of the Sciences revealed that the federal ethanol mandate inflated corn prices by 30% from 2008 to 2016, made corn-based ethanol more carbon intensive than gasoline and increased annual fertilizer use by up to 8%, polluting waterways.”

“This is politics, not a real solution for drivers.”

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...-know/3205507/


Lot’s of varied opinions…

[Miel]

I personally think sooner or later all our E10 and older cars will prematurely sputter, stutter, and stall. Funny that E10 cars heavily helped to bring up the vehicle sales charts post the pandemic, but not for that reason ofcourse.

I found the following solutions to avoid ethanol fuel problems in cars which were manufactured to run on pure petrol. I suppose these will be applicable for all E10 and older cars. The availability of such solutions off the shelf are still very much nil in our country.

Seven Steps To Avoid Ethanol Fuel Problems In Your Classic Car

• Use ethanol-resistant hoses or nylon tubing to replace any plastic or rubber fuel lines.
• Replace fiberglass fuel tanks with a stainless steel tank.
• Use a water separator filter in the fuel line leading to the carburetor. Since water collects in the filter, you can easily remove it.
• Change out any O-rings in the fuel system to ethanol compatible rings.
• A carburetor* fogging solution prevents condensation from filling fuel bowls.
• Use a flex-fuel-compatible fuel filter as it stops degradation of the fuel filter media.
• Use a non-alcohol based fuel treatment to prevent excessive water collection in your fuel. Ethanol based fuel treatments worsen problems caused by E10 gas.

Taken from this Source.

*With respect to fuel-injected cars, the injectors will need to be upgraded to E20 compliant ones, I guess. What do the experts here say?

[kedar_GT]

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

Mahindra is correct with its stand as per regulatory requirements

From 01 April 2023 cars sold need to have E20 material compatibility.

From 01 April 2025 cars sold will have engines tuned for E20 fuel. Since PAN India roll out is from that date onwards.

Hopefully a ECU update by OEM be enough to get current petrol engines to E20 combustion compatible.

Doubt that an ECU update will help E20 compatibility - if that was the case then what does 'material compatibility' mean? I infer it as having the right grade for the materials used in the engine (rubber seals, pipes etc) to eventually allow this higher ethanol blend.

Also, then there is a question of how user serviceable these replacement parts would be - I would hate to open up the engine at the SC and then expose us to future issues.

Cheers,