Is Hyundai lying about it's sales figures too?

Steeroid · 15th April 2006, 02:21

All this because Amit didnt see enogh Hyundais during his visit to Europe ?

The Auto industry is subject to analysis by a number of consultancies because it is (for some reason STILL) considered to be a prime indicator of economic growth/activity. If we think a company can get away with fibbing across n number of countries across the world - some of them with very strict regulatory bodies - we are being very naive.

Unfortunately Hyundai is one company that people that claim to be enthusiasts like to lambast if they're given half a chance. This is a very burra-sahib sort of attitude which I do not agree with. Therefore it becomes very easy to start a ridiculous thread about the possibility of one of the world's largest manufactures lying through its teeth across all the countries that it sells automobiles in based on the fact that one biased member in the forum didnt see so many Hyundais. If I were to use the same logic, Fiat is lying thru its teeth about its sales figures because you'll be lucky to see a Fiat in a lifetime spent in the middle east.

@ speedzak - I suggest you speak to some more South Africans. I can put you on the phone with the head of the Technology Risk Management practice for PWC in Johannesburg, a convert to Hyundai who now drives a Terracan after he bought his wife an Accent and was happy with the experience.

I'm sorry gents - I'd be quite happy if you based your comments on actual facts and not random observations. The fact that this whole thread is based on the figment of somebody's fertile imagination is an indication as to depths to which we can allow ourselves to fall. Instead of appreciating a foreign manufacturer for setting up base in India and turning it into an export base through a factory that now exports 40% of its production we are falling over ourselves to call them liars and cheats.

Why dont you just change the name of this forum to Team Eurocar so that you can all wallow in words of praise for your favourite automobiles? For an "Indian" car forum we seem to have nothing but contempt for either Indian manufacturers or those foreign manufacturers that have done something meaningful in this country, preferring instead to shed tears for brands that have repeatedly failed so many times that its ludicruous, or to blindly support companies that havent even set up a decent manufacturing unit in the country. Seeing how we hate their cars, why dont we just ask them to pack up and stop making 250,000 cars a year in this country so that we can accomodate the egos of people who wear the badges of euro manufacturers on their sleeves so that those miserable companies can go about selling their few hundred cars here?

I've been here for slightly over a year now, during which time I have tried on various occasions to talk sense to people who insist on propogating this sort of nonsense. However, it does look like its wasted effort - we still entertain and encourage these threads which are nothing but the online equivalent of Yellow Journalism. Today there was yet another thread started by one of our more knowledgeable friends about the effect of adultrated fuel on common rail engines, which essentially suggested that Hyundai (not any other manufacturer) was to blame for giving us good technology, nevermind that half the auto world is following suit today.

I doubt if there is any way I can contribute meaningfully to a forum with this sort of elitist atttitude. Goodbye.

Mpower · 15th April 2006, 02:37

I am sure there is some unbiased organisation which ensures that sales figures are not overstated. (like NADA in the US)

In the states both Ford and Chevrolet run neck to neck each year and they would kill to use the phrase "best selling brand in America" in their ads. some years ago there was some controversy when one was leading the other when all of a sudden the other brand sold a lot of cars during the last week of December to end up higher by 2000 units.

I dont see what PR mileage Hyundai can get out of this.

BTW, forget Hyundai...you see very little Japanese cars in Western Europe. Car buyers are very nationalistic and buy only local brands. Its only in northern European countries like Denmark, Finland that you see Japanese brands lead.

SLK · 15th April 2006, 05:02

Hyundai can not be lying!

The Tax collector... The auditors... ..both will catch it.
The accounting books are always cross checked with such kind of evidences. No one would ever get caught avoiding tax... if books are the base (Books are always perfect).

And even taking export benefits on the cars actually not exported is not feasible.... there is too much of an audit trail in exports to actually miss this.

So the export figures have to be true...... Though what might be not correct is "Santro sales in India are constrained "

devarshi84 · 15th April 2006, 06:02

everybody has brand preferences and hence the reason why so many brands co-exist. People find different value from different cars. When that value is not obtained consumers have the right to give their opinion out especially on a open forums like this.

hyundai is loved for what it is and hated for the same reasons
same goes for tata, mhindra, maruti, mitsubishi, honda, ford, Gm , chrysler or any other manufacturers.

there are bound to be threads where brands are bashed and other threads where brands are praised.

Coming back to the topic Can some1 please post sales figures of the top 5 hatchbacks sold in Europe and we can know the truth.

amit · 15th April 2006, 06:23

Quote:

Can some1 please post sales figures of the top 5 hatchbacks sold in Europe and we can know the truth.

Devarshi, in february 2006 the top 3 hatchbacks by sales were :

Fiat Punto 37,977 units (both old and new Grande Punto)
Renault Clio 36,016 units
Ford Fiesta 31,470 units

A thread on these sales figures already exsits here.

Reuters reports that March 2006 sales were led by Fiat and VW. Grande Punto and the new Passat made solid gains for their car makers. Fiat UP 28.3%, VW UP 9.6%, Renault DOWN 4.8%, Mercedes UP 14.4%, Kia UP 0.5%, Suzuki UP 19%, Toyota UP 4.9%, Lexus UP 85%! to 5135 units. Sorry no figures on units sold for March. Did a bit of googling but couldn't find specific info on Hyundai's sales figures for Europe.

The Europeans are fierecely nationalistic and prefer to buy cars made by their own countrymen. Just like the Koreans!

By the way, so much of heat for a thread started in 2004!

Samurai · 15th April 2006, 12:31

Please refrain from making personal attacks. Keep it a healthy fight. - Mod Team

goldie_malhotra · 15th April 2006, 13:22

Uh-oh, its turning out to be another hyundai-bashing thread, based on certain observations & reports made around 2 years back - how do we know whether this argument is still valid now !!!!!
And why dig up a 2 year-old thread, which not many people were interested in and turn it into a flame war.

Hyundai, like all companies, tends to highlight some of its strong points and hides some of its weak points during marketing and advertisements - so what - its 'maketing 101' for all the innocent people who claim to be duped by these ads !!!
Just see pepsi and coke, and you will see how dirty that war can get ...

Technocrat · 15th April 2006, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by amit

By the way, so much of heat for a thread started in 2004!

Now this is interesting, how many people noticed this

SLK · 15th April 2006, 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technocrat

Now this is interesting, how many people noticed this

I did

Thats why the sales figures of 2006.. make not much sense!

amit · 15th April 2006, 19:24

Quote:

Thats why the sales figures of 2006.. make not much sense!

Why doesnt it make sense? Sales in 2006 should be more then in 2004 so figures of 2006 should have been even more exciting.

Another member wanted facts and figures and the latest ones have been presented. Anyone wants to find out about 2004 results can go and do it on his own.

Quote:

Fiat is lying thru its teeth about its sales figures because you'll be lucky to see a Fiat in a lifetime spent in the middle east.

I wish people read the thread and understood what the message is before making personal attacks on other members. Sure Fiat doesn't sell much in mid east but unlike Hyundai it doesn't claim that it's sales in Europe are constrained due to heavy demand in Mid east which is what Hyundai is doing. I hope the point of the thread is now making sense.

sbasak · 17th April 2006, 13:09

Is Kia same as Hyundai??

Beeman · 17th April 2006, 13:22

I dont understand this hyundai bashing going on, ok it's not the greatest company in the world but it's surely getting there...............
i own two hyundai's (2004-elantra & 2006-embera) off late and have been very satisfied with the overall experience till date.........
so wether they fudge their figures or not, dont care other companies also indulge in under-handed tricks once in a while.............
no one is a saint when it comes to business.........

BUSA · 17th April 2006, 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beeman

I dont understand this hyundai bashing going on, ok it's not the greatest company in the world but it's surely getting there...............
i own two hyundai's (2004-elantra & 2006-embera) off late and have been very satisfied with the overall experience till date.........
so wether they fudge their figures or not, dont care other companies also indulge in under-handed tricks once in a while.............
no one is a saint when it comes to business.........

Enough of Hyundai bashing on the forum. I feel Hyundai cars are quite good and though they are not on par with the Japanese they are almost getting there. Just look at the Embera its the only one around in that segment that can teach the Accord a thing or two and the only thing in Hondas favour is the overhyped Honda image in India. However in a matter of few days i expect and hope Hyundai to beat Honda/Toyota in India. They are the ones who gave India CRDi tech and ABS first and Elantra is the only car in that segment which has TCS that even the 2.4L Accord doesnot have. Long Live Hyundai and enough of Hyundai abuse on the forum. Please.

Mpower · 17th April 2006, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLK

The Tax collector... The auditors... ..both will catch it.
The accounting books are always cross checked with such kind of evidences.

You dont have to pay central exise or state tax on vehicles that you sell out of the country.

SLK · 17th April 2006, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mpower

You dont have to pay central exise or state tax on vehicles that you sell out of the country.

ya.. thats why to take that exemption you need proof of export... I guess Hyundai would be operating under the AL schemes... and its not that easy to start printing fake Bill Of Lading!!!

Though you do pay income tax.... on exports .. so its not a good idea to fake it!

15th April 2006, 02:21	#16
Steeroid Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: N.A Posts: 7,046 Thanked: 2,751 Times	All this because Amit didnt see enogh Hyundais during his visit to Europe ? The Auto industry is subject to analysis by a number of consultancies because it is (for some reason STILL) considered to be a prime indicator of economic growth/activity. If we think a company can get away with fibbing across n number of countries across the world - some of them with very strict regulatory bodies - we are being very naive. Unfortunately Hyundai is one company that people that claim to be enthusiasts like to lambast if they're given half a chance. This is a very burra-sahib sort of attitude which I do not agree with. Therefore it becomes very easy to start a ridiculous thread about the possibility of one of the world's largest manufactures lying through its teeth across all the countries that it sells automobiles in based on the fact that one biased member in the forum didnt see so many Hyundais. If I were to use the same logic, Fiat is lying thru its teeth about its sales figures because you'll be lucky to see a Fiat in a lifetime spent in the middle east. @ speedzak - I suggest you speak to some more South Africans. I can put you on the phone with the head of the Technology Risk Management practice for PWC in Johannesburg, a convert to Hyundai who now drives a Terracan after he bought his wife an Accent and was happy with the experience. I'm sorry gents - I'd be quite happy if you based your comments on actual facts and not random observations. The fact that this whole thread is based on the figment of somebody's fertile imagination is an indication as to depths to which we can allow ourselves to fall. Instead of appreciating a foreign manufacturer for setting up base in India and turning it into an export base through a factory that now exports 40% of its production we are falling over ourselves to call them liars and cheats. Why dont you just change the name of this forum to Team Eurocar so that you can all wallow in words of praise for your favourite automobiles? For an "Indian" car forum we seem to have nothing but contempt for either Indian manufacturers or those foreign manufacturers that have done something meaningful in this country, preferring instead to shed tears for brands that have repeatedly failed so many times that its ludicruous, or to blindly support companies that havent even set up a decent manufacturing unit in the country. Seeing how we hate their cars, why dont we just ask them to pack up and stop making 250,000 cars a year in this country so that we can accomodate the egos of people who wear the badges of euro manufacturers on their sleeves so that those miserable companies can go about selling their few hundred cars here? I've been here for slightly over a year now, during which time I have tried on various occasions to talk sense to people who insist on propogating this sort of nonsense. However, it does look like its wasted effort - we still entertain and encourage these threads which are nothing but the online equivalent of Yellow Journalism. Today there was yet another thread started by one of our more knowledgeable friends about the effect of adultrated fuel on common rail engines, which essentially suggested that Hyundai (not any other manufacturer) was to blame for giving us good technology, nevermind that half the auto world is following suit today. I doubt if there is any way I can contribute meaningfully to a forum with this sort of elitist atttitude. Goodbye. Last edited by Samurai : 15th April 2006 at 12:03.
	() Thanks

15th April 2006, 02:37	#17
Mpower Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 10,409 Thanked: 1,729 Times View My Garage	I am sure there is some unbiased organisation which ensures that sales figures are not overstated. (like NADA in the US) In the states both Ford and Chevrolet run neck to neck each year and they would kill to use the phrase "best selling brand in America" in their ads. some years ago there was some controversy when one was leading the other when all of a sudden the other brand sold a lot of cars during the last week of December to end up higher by 2000 units. I dont see what PR mileage Hyundai can get out of this. BTW, forget Hyundai...you see very little Japanese cars in Western Europe. Car buyers are very nationalistic and buy only local brands. Its only in northern European countries like Denmark, Finland that you see Japanese brands lead. Last edited by Mpower : 15th April 2006 at 02:42.
	() Thanks

15th April 2006, 05:02	#18
SLK Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: DL XX XX XXXX Posts: 1,634 Thanked: 1,011 Times	Hyundai can not be lying! The Tax collector... The auditors... ..both will catch it. The accounting books are always cross checked with such kind of evidences. No one would ever get caught avoiding tax... if books are the base (Books are always perfect). And even taking export benefits on the cars actually not exported is not feasible.... there is too much of an audit trail in exports to actually miss this. So the export figures have to be true...... Though what might be not correct is "Santro sales in India are constrained " Last edited by SLK : 15th April 2006 at 05:06.
	() Thanks

15th April 2006, 06:02	#19
devarshi84 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ahmedabad - Tor Posts: 4,024 Thanked: 211 Times View My Garage	everybody has brand preferences and hence the reason why so many brands co-exist. People find different value from different cars. When that value is not obtained consumers have the right to give their opinion out especially on a open forums like this. hyundai is loved for what it is and hated for the same reasons same goes for tata, mhindra, maruti, mitsubishi, honda, ford, Gm , chrysler or any other manufacturers. there are bound to be threads where brands are bashed and other threads where brands are praised. Coming back to the topic Can some1 please post sales figures of the top 5 hatchbacks sold in Europe and we can know the truth. Last edited by Samurai : 15th April 2006 at 12:05.
	() Thanks

15th April 2006, 12:31	#21
Samurai Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore/Udupi Posts: 25,813 Thanked: 45,435 Times View My Garage	Please refrain from making personal attacks. Keep it a healthy fight. - Mod Team
	() Thanks

15th April 2006, 13:22	#22
goldie_malhotra BHPian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 757 Thanked: 12 Times	Uh-oh, its turning out to be another hyundai-bashing thread, based on certain observations & reports made around 2 years back - how do we know whether this argument is still valid now !!!!! And why dig up a 2 year-old thread, which not many people were interested in and turn it into a flame war. Hyundai, like all companies, tends to highlight some of its strong points and hides some of its weak points during marketing and advertisements - so what - its 'maketing 101' for all the innocent people who claim to be duped by these ads !!! Just see pepsi and coke, and you will see how dirty that war can get ...
	() Thanks

17th April 2006, 13:09	#26
sbasak BHPian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CCU-LTN Posts: 608 Thanked: 14 Times	Is Kia same as Hyundai??
	() Thanks

17th April 2006, 13:22	#27
Beeman BHPian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Treasure island Posts: 335 Thanked: 2 Times	I dont understand this hyundai bashing going on, ok it's not the greatest company in the world but it's surely getting there............... i own two hyundai's (2004-elantra & 2006-embera) off late and have been very satisfied with the overall experience till date......... so wether they fudge their figures or not, dont care other companies also indulge in under-handed tricks once in a while............. no one is a saint when it comes to business.........
	() Thanks