[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by speedzak

You haven't driven a stock DDis for sure. Leave alone a Pete'd one.
And you're talking about torque??? And isn't the 240NM of torque in a Pete'd Swift sounds like too little?

Dude, the thread title says fun to drive hatch and not the most economical and torquiest hatch. If your idea of fun is 4th gear 40-100 roll on's then let be it... I am different! A car is not just about the engine... there are other factors too. In anycase as I said earlier, the thread and the comparison between the two is flawed. How about a Stile 1.3 JTD and Swift... I wonder how many would vote for the swift and mind you this would be a fair comparison.

P.S I have driven the diesel swift. I wrote a review on it here too... search and you will find it.

[BUSA]

I dont understand the point why should Fiat/Tata even give the Palio the 1.3 MJD? Its high time Fiat discontinues the Palio and get the GP, in fact i am dead sure Fiat wont put that 1.3L engine in the Swift, Palio is now a 8 year old car

Fiat owners (that includes me) please dont get too emotional about Fiat cars you love them i love them too but the truth is the truth and it may sound bitter.

And Mr. ET, Torque is responsible for accleration, BHP is resposible for top speed and that's where torque comes in to play.

[1100D]

Originally Posted by speedzak

Sorry. But I haven't noticed that much. Does it happen in somebody else's Swift?
My family has some nice private roads adjoining their houses (closed for public traffic) and I have tried whatever I could and it was very hard to get the rear out of line. Yes, it did couple a times. But not easily it was.

My statement stemmed from an observation made by me.

I had two uncomfortable moments driving the DDiS, on both the occasions I was on an expressway and was braking from triple digit speeds to enter a corner. Could have been because of my driving was adjusted to a small sedan which behaves differently. However with familiarity with the car, this can be tamed. It could also be a result of the stock tyres. What is the weight difference of the Diesel Swift vs the Petrol Swift? (why I ask this is because it might be a pointer to unfavourable weight distribution in the DDiS under braking)

In anycase my vote actually went to the Swift.

[1100D]

Digging up an old thread, the tail-swinging under braking has been observed by others too.

For example
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/380629-post43.html

However, how much of this nature is just because of the car being undertyred is a big question mark.

[tadukuttan]

Originally Posted by BUSA

No offense but i have noticed, Palio 1.2 owners to have huge loyalty towards the 1.6

1.2 does come with an underpowered engine. But then, Polio owners don't just like their car for the engine, they also like the "tank" like build quality, and all those doors which go "thud"...

I really liked the 1.6 (a long time ago), but comparing that to the current crop of cars is unfair. I mean, here we are comparing a Swift with a FIAT engine(Engine of the year in 2005), and that too to a ~10 year old car?

[BUSA]

P.S I have driven the diesel swift. I wrote a review on it here too... search and you will find it.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/370332-post64.html

Maruti launch the car and due to short supply there is waiting period. Fiat take huge time in launching so there is waiting period for the car to be launched so either way you wait so whats there to complain about?

@ Amit Verma - I really appreciate your unbiased nature

[1100D]

Originally Posted by tadukuttan

But then, Polio owners don't just like their car for the engine, they also like the "tank" like build quality, and all those doors which go "thud"...

None of that contributes to a fun to drive factor. We love the Non-tanks as well (edit I will clarify this, A Santro 1.1 is more FTD than Palio 1.2 buts thats a topic of another discussion)

[speedzak]

@ET. If you cannot understand the comparison here and feels it is flawed, I think you haven't voted on this so called flawed poll.

It is just an easy comparison. What is fun to drive. It can be done between any 2 cars. It can also be done between a car and truck. What is so dubious here?
I know many people (yes, some are rich and filthy ones too) who owns best cars in the world like S class and Lexus but also drives around in Fiat 500/millicento and VW beetle. One used to own an ambassador and used to drive it with lots of passion (this lovely chap passed away some months ago in a mishap). They claim it to be more fun to drive than their other cars. So does that mean they are off in their heads? Does it make their S class etc... bad? They don't think so neither do we.
Then why does this thread make many feel so.

This thread is making sense to many in the forum here too. But some group of people just don't like the way it is headed.

The comparison between a Swift 1.3 petrol and 1.3 multijet will definitely emerge with the diesel being the winner. What about a comparison between a Swift 1.6 and a 1.3 diesel? Does it makes sense? If yes, then What's the problem with comparing it to a Fiat 1.6?

So, all those who think this comparison is flawed. I hope you guys haven't voted on this too. If you have, then I don't know what to say.

[hellspawn]

Originally Posted by BUSA

On a track a Swift will beat the Palio with ease, thanks to better handling & superb torque.

how do you suppose the swift ddis will handle if it has a big lump of a diesel engine sitting on the front wheels.it will always act front heavy and reluctant to change directions.imagine you are on the track,take a left hander and realise that the revs have fallen below the torque band and you have to wait for the turbo to kick in.thats not fun.
swift ddis is more fun to drive than the swift petrol but a palio 1.6.hell noo!!
a petefied swift is different game altogether.you cant bring in a modded car and compete it with a stock car.i have driven a friends swift ddis,it is quick but the steering feels detached and the the car steps out if you brake really hard.his swift is running on 195/60r15 and its just been 6k kms and its rattling and squeaking like a 50k km run car.where is the "fun" to drive a car which rattles away to glory.
i am not bringing in f.e as,yes,most of the fun to drive cars wont be fuel efficient.
And i suggest that everybody read the article in this months best motoring on the comparo between the swift ddis and fiat palio 1.6.most of you will be surprised.

[mclaren1885]

Just to elaborate a little more on the "fun to drive" factor. As I have already mentioned earlier:

1. For some it could be the high revs of a petrol engine, while for others it could be the push back you get when the diesel turbo kicks in.

2. For some it could be that top end power from a petrol, while for others it could be the in gear accelerations.

3. For some it could be a car with a good chassis that handles well while for others it could be a car that oversteers a lot.

4. For some it could be flat shifts in a petrol, to others it could be learning how to keep the diesel car in the turbo band.

5. For some, fun to drive factor is to see how good a car performs on a highway (say Pune-Bombay Expressway) to me its about how well it performs on a track.

6. To some it matters what a car can do on a dragstrip or those run off the mill starts from signals, to others its the way it takes corners on a track that matters.

I could go on and on. What is to be understood is that everyone has a different notion to "fun to drive" factor.

[esteem_lover]

Originally Posted by BUSA

No offense but i have noticed, Palio 1.2 owners to have huge loyalty towards the 1.6

Man, wouldn't you love or look upto your elder brother ?

[bottle]

Originally Posted by hellspawn

its just been 6k kms and its rattling and squeaking like a 50k km run car.where is the "fun" to drive a car which rattles away to glory..

my brand new palio does that too at 100kms not even 6k kms so i guess this depends on how well the car is screwed together in factory and i dont think this happens in all cars.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

First of all, let those cars come out. This poll is between two cars in the market, that you can buy now. Not something that will somday come out, or never come out at all.

Why not? Companies do exactly the same to test waters, why cant we do it here. Besides we know both the cars and the new diesel engine well. Its not difficult to imagine Palio with the same engine... isnt?

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Now, what is blind love? Such kind of statements don't prove anything.

Dude easy.... that statement of mine was in response to statement made which said "Swift would be faster on the track because it was more torque!!!".... not directed at the car or the choice of car.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Have you driven the swift diesel? No one has complained about handling of the Swift DDiS, except for the thinny stock tyres.

Why do you have problems digesting the fact that Palio 1.6 would handle better. The argument is who will handle better on track not swift's handling considered in isolation. For some driving the car to come to a conclusion isnt neccessary, its very basic... a diesel hatch aganist a petrol hatch on track!

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

We are not talking about build quality here!

Dude you really want an argument or just carrying it on for the sake of it. This sounds very childish to me. In anycase, I never mentioned build quality in any of my arguments in this thread. I was looking at it from purely "fun to drive" point of view. Also if you bring along economy in this thread this is flawed, there can be no direct comparision between a diesel car and a petrol car atleast in India where there a parity in fuel prices of the two.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

How do you explain the quarter miles figures of the cars being almost similar?

So you are quoting figures from Overdrive... they are the most favourable for you considering this argument... isnt? Now lets talk abt Autocar figures, 1.6 0- 100 11:19 seconds, 1.3 0-100 13.XX seconds a difference of more than three seconds which is a lot!

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

The problem comes when that 'sense' is the idea that everyone should accept that FIAT wins!

Argh! Its a poll for god's sake and you have the result in front of your eyes. If you have problems excepting it, I can do nothing about it.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

If the thread is absurd, you always have the option of reporting to the MODS.

Yes the thread is still absurd for me atleast, primarily
1) You cannot compare a diesel and a petrol car head to head primarily because of parity in fuel prices and this thread has turned into a comparison.
2) You should have mentioned it in the start of your thread that the only criteria for voting is "fun to drive" factor and not economy and diesel prices coupled with reasonable performance.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

No one has anything to say on the quarter mile figures? If swift diesel doesn't perform as you guys said, why the quarter mile figures for Swift DDiS and Palio 1.6 are almost same?

See above.

[DieselFan]

Well said Mclaren. Fun factor is totally dependent on individual perceptions. But some of them can be common across like minded people in this forum.

[lohithrao]

Anyday Palio 1.6 if am looking at "Fun to drive" aspect!