Honda discusses skidding issue with NHC VTEC

megger · 17th August 2007, 15:45

I called Honda dealer to book a Vtec. I was told there is very limited choice of colours available since Honda has shut down production of Vtec for 1.5 months. Reason - to meet high demand for Civic.

May be true since I see too many Civic's on road these days. Or are they

1) trying to correct skidding issue, provided it is genuinely a problem. I personally found Vtec braking to be very effective

2) Planning to add features like ABS?

Anyway disappointing. Looks like 'll have to settle for GXi now

CrAzY dRiVeR · 17th August 2007, 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by megger

Anyway disappointing. Looks like 'll have to settle for GXi now

Looks like you only choose between Hondas.

reignofchaos · 17th August 2007, 16:23

Well if you can afford the vtec, why not look at the Cedia select... way better car for same money.

sathya_nars · 17th August 2007, 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dinesh99

NHC has the most accurate Odo and Speedo in it's class.

Didn't you read Autocar mag where they mentioned speedo errors in NHC?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dinesh99

Agree the SX4 ZXi has "balloons" ( Airbags ) and " Microchip brakes" ( ABS ) but it took MUL 3.5 years , solely out of desperation to come up a competitor and it will take few months for NHC with balloons and microchip brakes with smoke the SX4.

"NHC coming up soon with ABS & Airbag" is just gossip - show me a link where it is mentioned

.

Even this thread (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-vtec-gxi.html) started with saying ABS & Airbags will be available by June, but then moved to Diwali and now no news if it will be available even by Diwali.

Even if they are planning to come up with safety features now, why did they wait all these days? Being segment leader, they should have come up with it already (Remember! Even before SX4 was introduced, Verna had ABS and still Honda kept quiet)

Alright, lets get back to context of this thread.

Are we all agreeing that skidding & wheel lock up at nominal speed (60 kmph) is not common across all cars with no-ABS?

Then there is serious issue with NHC VTEC. Even if this particular case is considered to be a rare one, still Honda service engineers checked Amit's car and they declared there is no issue with braking system - which means wheel lock up is so called 'standard feature' (not optional

) in NHC VTEC???

Torque-ative · 18th August 2007, 12:25

Whatever happened to brake modulation, and engine braking ! When required to brake hard you dont just step on it ,...you pump it , and down shift real quick.

Instead of slamming Suzuki or Honda, lets look at all that could be going wrong here.

a) These cars get thouroughly tested in all driving conditions (irrespective of Suzuki or Honda) , a genuine design defect of this magnitude would definitely show up, cos laws of physics manifests itself consistantly.

b) Any car, is only as good as the person behind the wheel. (I am not trying to be-little the problem by the thread starter). As it take a while for one to get used to the entire driving dynamics of a new car. I took over 6 months to get comfy with my Honda.

c) Panic situations demand utmost composure and skill while handling a car. Reccomend you find a secluded spot to try braking hard and steering at the same time to get a feel of what it takes to react, and do the right thing. keep in mind you can lock your wheel even as low as 20 kmph.

Easy does it some times,..force not always !!!

amit · 18th August 2007, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by sathya_nars

Even if they are planning to come up with safety features now, why did they wait all these days? Being segment leader, they should have come up with it already (Remember! Even before SX4 was introduced, Verna had ABS and still Honda kept quiet)

Thats because Verna despite having the diesel advantage never challenged NHC sales. And if the SX4 sales taper off to an average of about 1500-2000 units per month, I am sure Honda will abandon ABS and Airbags for NHC. They are taking ruthless advantage of the Indians reverance of their badge.

sathya_nars · 19th August 2007, 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by amit

They are taking ruthless advantage of the Indians reverance of their badge.

Exactly this is my point too.

hell_rider · 19th August 2007, 17:37

On this count, (ABS and / or Airbags ) every manufacturer is guilty for not offering these as an option. Ford with their Fiesta / Fusion, Hyundai with their Verna, Honda with the NHC (both IDSI and VTec).

But for me, the worst offender on this count is TATA. Because they do offer it on the Indicas in the South African market. Which means, the technology, know-how and the infrastructure is there, but they choose not to provide the option to the Indian customers.

With the other manufacturers, I assume and accept that these are foreign automobile majors and will, by default, take Indian consumers for granted. But coming from TATA, its inexcusable.

w.r.t. NHC, I don't think Honda is going to introduce ABS / Airbags on the NHC until they realise lack of these features is hurting sales. This may be in the next three months, or one year down the road. Existing brand value will continue to bring in sales, irrespective.

As for the point about the puny tyres aiding F.E., another fact is the thickness of the sheet metal used. I had the thickness values for sheet metal in the Fiesta / Ikon as compared to the NHC (just can't find it now. will try to hunt up and post.). No wonder we have so many people commenting on the NHC feeling very tinny and unsubstantial.

And to think, people believe that marvelous Honda technology is at work to bring in those great F.E. figures. Its hilarious. At least Honda is laughing all the way to the bank.

vnabhi · 19th August 2007, 17:58

Hell_rider, Fiesta sxi comes with ABS (not optional any longer), though there are no airbags---so please take note of this. Even Verna offers ABS on its petrol cars as an option.

BUSA · 19th August 2007, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by vnabhi

Hell_rider, Fiesta sxi comes with ABS (not optional any longer), though there are no airbags---so please take note of this. Even Verna offers ABS on its petrol cars as an option.

Even Verna CRDi has ABS as a option though it should be standard on the SX

hell_rider · 20th August 2007, 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by vnabhi

Hell_rider, Fiesta sxi comes with ABS (not optional any longer), though there are no airbags---so please take note of this. Even Verna offers ABS on its petrol cars as an option.

Yes. I am aware. Request you to re-read my statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hell_rider

On this count, (ABS and / or Airbags ) every manufacturer is guilty for not offering these as an option. Ford with their Fiesta / Fusion, Hyundai with their Verna, Honda with the NHC (both IDSI and VTec).

(ABS and / or Airbags)

Quote:

Originally Posted by busa

Even Verna CRDi has ABS as a option though it should be standard on the SX

same as above pal.

megger · 20th August 2007, 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Looks like you only choose between Hondas.

Not Really!

I test drove Cedia finally and have decided to go in for it. It is an amazing car. I was mislead a bit by "poor rear seat leg space" comments in reviews. But the leg space is very fine.

Car is absolutely high on safety features, amazing power and handling. Mitsubishi has atleast not compromised in safety features across variants, only cosmetic differences exist between models.

Many thanks guys! If not for Team BHP, I would have made a choice that I may have regretted for next many years.

megger · 20th August 2007, 10:29

"Are we all agreeing that skidding & wheel lock up at nominal speed (60 kmph) is not common across all cars with no-ABS?" Sathya_Nars

I don't think it can be concluded so simply. As per Honda Site - "ABS (Anti-Lock Braking System) It prevents locking of wheels during braking, avoids skidding and lets you maintain control over the steering."

Read Wiki too - Anti-lock braking system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Very interesting info and also highlights drawbacks of ABS.
A typical anti-lock system can apply and release braking pressure up to 20 times a second.

I suspect wheels can lock up if you break too hard even at speeds below or around 60.

If Honda feels ABS and airbags are not required for Indian roads, why are they offered in Civic?

cyneverdie · 20th October 2007, 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by sathya_nars

Autocar magazine mentioned an issue with NHC VTEC.

I brought up this issue to create awareness among those who are buying cars just based on Honda image

.

When a customer buys a car that costs ~9.5L, primary need is safety - now the customer is not at all happy with his purchase.

Does Honda want to wait till Govt regulations make basic safety features as mandatory?

sathya man , very well done to autocar too : missed that mail :

its disgusting always hated the flying honda s in india

disgusting

..

cyneverdie · 20th October 2007, 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteKnight

Wonder why Honda would shoot a letter like that. They seem to have outsourced their call-center job!!

To me, it looks like a one-off case (remember the guy was driving at 60kph). Improper brake-bias setting done by someone who doesn't know about disc brakes.

white knight this is not a one off - this is called standard !

17th August 2007, 15:45	#61
megger BHPian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 156 Thanked: 4 Times	I called Honda dealer to book a Vtec. I was told there is very limited choice of colours available since Honda has shut down production of Vtec for 1.5 months. Reason - to meet high demand for Civic. May be true since I see too many Civic's on road these days. Or are they 1) trying to correct skidding issue, provided it is genuinely a problem. I personally found Vtec braking to be very effective 2) Planning to add features like ABS? Anyway disappointing. Looks like 'll have to settle for GXi now
	() Thanks

17th August 2007, 16:23	#63
reignofchaos Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,542 Thanked: 2,450 Times View My Garage	Well if you can afford the vtec, why not look at the Cedia select... way better car for same money.
	() Thanks

18th August 2007, 12:25	#65
Torque-ative BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 500 Thanked: 89 Times	Whatever happened to brake modulation, and engine braking ! When required to brake hard you dont just step on it ,...you pump it , and down shift real quick. Instead of slamming Suzuki or Honda, lets look at all that could be going wrong here. a) These cars get thouroughly tested in all driving conditions (irrespective of Suzuki or Honda) , a genuine design defect of this magnitude would definitely show up, cos laws of physics manifests itself consistantly. b) Any car, is only as good as the person behind the wheel. (I am not trying to be-little the problem by the thread starter). As it take a while for one to get used to the entire driving dynamics of a new car. I took over 6 months to get comfy with my Honda. c) Panic situations demand utmost composure and skill while handling a car. Reccomend you find a secluded spot to try braking hard and steering at the same time to get a feel of what it takes to react, and do the right thing. keep in mind you can lock your wheel even as low as 20 kmph. Easy does it some times,..force not always !!! Last edited by Torque-ative : 18th August 2007 at 12:32.
	() Thanks

19th August 2007, 17:37	#68
hell_rider BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 538 Thanked: 61 Times	On this count, (ABS and / or Airbags ) every manufacturer is guilty for not offering these as an option. Ford with their Fiesta / Fusion, Hyundai with their Verna, Honda with the NHC (both IDSI and VTec). But for me, the worst offender on this count is TATA. Because they do offer it on the Indicas in the South African market. Which means, the technology, know-how and the infrastructure is there, but they choose not to provide the option to the Indian customers. With the other manufacturers, I assume and accept that these are foreign automobile majors and will, by default, take Indian consumers for granted. But coming from TATA, its inexcusable. w.r.t. NHC, I don't think Honda is going to introduce ABS / Airbags on the NHC until they realise lack of these features is hurting sales. This may be in the next three months, or one year down the road. Existing brand value will continue to bring in sales, irrespective. As for the point about the puny tyres aiding F.E., another fact is the thickness of the sheet metal used. I had the thickness values for sheet metal in the Fiesta / Ikon as compared to the NHC (just can't find it now. will try to hunt up and post.). No wonder we have so many people commenting on the NHC feeling very tinny and unsubstantial. And to think, people believe that marvelous Honda technology is at work to bring in those great F.E. figures. Its hilarious. At least Honda is laughing all the way to the bank. Last edited by hell_rider : 19th August 2007 at 17:39.
	() Thanks

19th August 2007, 17:58	#69
vnabhi Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: DC -> DC Posts: 5,958 Thanked: 2,393 Times View My Garage	Hell_rider, Fiesta sxi comes with ABS (not optional any longer), though there are no airbags---so please take note of this. Even Verna offers ABS on its petrol cars as an option.
	() Thanks

20th August 2007, 10:29	#73
megger BHPian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 156 Thanked: 4 Times	"Are we all agreeing that skidding & wheel lock up at nominal speed (60 kmph) is not common across all cars with no-ABS?" Sathya_Nars I don't think it can be concluded so simply. As per Honda Site - "ABS (Anti-Lock Braking System) It prevents locking of wheels during braking, avoids skidding and lets you maintain control over the steering." Read Wiki too - Anti-lock braking system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Very interesting info and also highlights drawbacks of ABS. A typical anti-lock system can apply and release braking pressure up to 20 times a second. I suspect wheels can lock up if you break too hard even at speeds below or around 60. If Honda feels ABS and airbags are not required for Indian roads, why are they offered in Civic?
	() Thanks