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Old 29th January 2024, 14:52   #1
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Toyota caught in diesel horsepower certification problem | Suspends the dispatch of diesels in India

Toyota is now caught in another fraud after the safety fraud in earlier 2023, its diesel engines this time.

Toyota Motor Corporation announced on January 29 that violations were found in the output tests of three automotive diesel engine models that Toyota commissioned Toyota Industries to apply for certification.

Toyota Industries has decided to temporarily suspend shipments of the affected engines, and Toyota has also decided to temporarily halt shipments of vehicles equipped with the affected engines. The company plans to provide detailed explanations to the authorities and promptly take appropriate measures such as conducting a witness test.

Affected models
Quote:
The affected engines are "1GD", "2GD", and "F33A", and the vehicles equipped with them are "Land Cruiser Prado", "Hiace", "Gran Ace", "Bongo Brony Van (Mazda)", "Dyna", and "Dutro (Hino Motors)". There will be 10 global models, including ``Hilux (for Europe, the Middle East, Asia, and Africa),'' ``Fortuner,'' ``Hilux (for Japan),'' ``Innova,'' ``Land Cruiser 300,'' and ``LX500d,'' including 6 models for Japan.
Name:  Toyota Diesel.png
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Engines are relevant to the Indian market too, 1GD ( 2.8l diesel ), 2 GD ( 2.4 l Diesel) used in Fortuner, Innova Crysta models.

car watch JP

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Last edited by TorqueIndia : 29th January 2024 at 14:53.
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Old 29th January 2024, 15:14   #2
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Re: Toyota caught in Diesel fraud, Indian models too affected!

What does this mean? That Innova and Fortuner Diesel model shipments are going to temporarily stop in the country? That is going to be a big heart break for a lot of folks, especially since Innova has such a long waitlist!
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Old 29th January 2024, 15:15   #3
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Re: Toyota caught in Diesel fraud, Indian models too affected!

More on the certification irregularities at Toyota Industries:

Toyota Motor has announced that it will suspend shipments of some models — including the Hilux truck and Land Cruiser 300 SUV — after irregularities were discovered during certification tests for diesel engines developed by its affiliate Toyota Industries.

Toyota said the investigation found that electronic control units used during horsepower output testing were different from those used during engine production.


Press release:

Toyota caught in diesel horsepower certification problem | Suspends the dispatch of diesels in India-1.png
Toyota caught in diesel horsepower certification problem | Suspends the dispatch of diesels in India-2.png
Toyota caught in diesel horsepower certification problem | Suspends the dispatch of diesels in India-3.png

Last edited by volkman10 : 29th January 2024 at 15:25.
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Old 29th January 2024, 17:15   #4
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Originally Posted by astrodex View Post
What does this mean? That Innova and Fortuner Diesel model shipments are going to temporarily stop in the country? That is going to be a big heart break for a lot of folks, especially since Innova has such a long waitlist!
Zigwheels quotes the same from TKM, like suspension of sales. This looks like a serious mistake from Toyota, they claims that the switching of ECU and maps were to "smoothen" the engines. But similar activities were observed during the VW diesel gate too.
Let's wait for the official confirmation of the Indian testing agencies too. Also there were multiple occasions of suspension of sales for Toyota diesels earlier in India , citing internal issues.

Those who have knowledge in ARAI testing protocols can throw more light on the impact of these kind of activities during testing in India.

Quote:
Toyota is working with relevant authorities to re-confirm the data used for the certification of the affected vehicles. As such, in case of Toyota Kirloskar Motor Pvt Ltd (TKM), the dispatch of affected vehicles will also be temporarily suspended.

However, new order taking will continue. For cars that have already been dispatched but have not yet been delivered to the customer, we will carefully explain to our customers about this condition. Thereafter, we will proceed with registration and delivery for customers who opt to receive their vehicles.
Zigwheels

Zigwheels reports that Toyota India has temporarily suspended the dispatch and delivery of the diesel cars India in connection with the diesel fraud caught in Japan.

Zigwheels

Quote:
A spokesperson from Toyota India commented that “The irregularities concern the ‘smoothing’ of power and torque curves but did not lead to any over-stating or over-claims on horsepower, torque or other powertrain-related values. Moreover, this does not have any impact on the emissions or safety of the affected vehicles.

Toyota is working with relevant authorities to re-confirm the data used for the certification of the affected vehicles. As such, in case of Toyota Kirloskar Motor Pvt Ltd (TKM), the dispatch of affected vehicles will also be temporarily suspended.

However, new order taking will continue. For cars that have already been dispatched but have not yet been delivered to the customer, we will carefully explain to our customers about this condition. Thereafter, we will proceed with registration and delivery for customers who opt to receive their vehicles.”
Teambhp (Toyota caught in Diesel fraud, Indian models too affected!)

Last edited by moralfibre : 30th January 2024 at 19:12. Reason: Back-to-back posts merged. Please use multi-quote option when replying to multiple posts. Thank you!
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Old 29th January 2024, 17:29   #5
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Re: Toyota caught in Diesel fraud, Indian models too affected!

So does this means that all the BS6 diesel engines from Toyota Kirloskar Motor (TKM) are affected ?

Will TKM issue a recall replacing the ECU or it's software ?
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Old 29th January 2024, 18:35   #6
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Re: Toyota caught in Diesel fraud, Indian models too affected!

Toyota Innova Crysta, Fortuner, Hilux dispatches put on hold

Toyota has suspended all dispatches of the Innova Crysta, Fortuner and Hilux in India after irregularities were found in the output tests of three diesel engines.

Toyota caught in diesel horsepower certification problem | Suspends the dispatch of diesels in India-new-innova-crysta-1.jpg

The three diesel engines in question include the 1GD, 2GD and F33A. Out of these, the 2.8-litre 1GD and 2.4-litre 2GD engines are offered in cars sold in India. These have been developed by Toyota Industries Corporation (TICO).

Earlier today, it was revealed that a special investigation committee was looking into potential certification irregularities. The horsepower output performance of engines was measured using ECUs with software that was different from those on the production version.

According to Toyota, the irregularities concern the ‘smoothing’ of power and torque curves. The company has clarified that it did not lead to any overstating of horsepower and torque figures and that it does not have any impact on the emissions and safety of the affected vehicles.

While dispatches of the affected models have been temporarily suspended, Toyota will continue to produce and take orders for the Innova Crysta, Fortuner and Hilux in India.

Source: Autocar India

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Last edited by Omkar : 30th January 2024 at 09:43.
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Old 29th January 2024, 19:24   #7
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re: Toyota caught in diesel horsepower certification problem | Suspends the dispatch of diesels in India

It may be recollected that Toyota had pulled the Diesel Innova off the market, back in Sept 2022, due to emission irregularities. Autocar had reported on the same, but that news was eventually pulled down.

Link to post (Toyota stops taking bookings for Innova Crysta diesel | EDIT: Back in Jan 2023)

Toyota's PR machinery then swung into action & made some lame claims that "we have stopped bookings due to excessive demand & backlog" .

If someone like Toyota cannot get emissions right, there is seriously something wrong. VW scam, I was a little surprised. Toyota? I am shocked!

Quote:
During the testing phase of these engines, they were fitted with a different ECU and software that apparently made the “values appear smoother with less variation.” However, the final mass-produced versions came with a different ECU. Toyota was quick to add that they tested the final versions of the engines to continue to meet performance output standards, but not similar to how it was showcased to the authorities during the testing phase.
Seriously?!

Last edited by GTO : 29th January 2024 at 19:47.
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Old 29th January 2024, 19:36   #8
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re: Toyota caught in diesel horsepower certification problem | Suspends the dispatch of diesels in India

This is beyond shocking. I always considered Toyota as the benchmark for maintenance of quality and high standards. This is a big setback for the company.
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Old 29th January 2024, 20:00   #9
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re: Toyota caught in diesel horsepower certification problem | Suspends the dispatch of diesels in India

Can anyone explain to me how this hurts Toyota's quality standards? Genuine question here.
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Old 29th January 2024, 20:09   #10
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re: Toyota caught in diesel horsepower certification problem | Suspends the dispatch of diesels in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amrit@wheels View Post
Can anyone explain to me how this hurts Toyota's quality standards? Genuine question here.
How did the ECU in production cars vary from the ones used for testing.

For a Japanese brand, like Toyota, which is the epitome of quality checks at multiple stages of production (Quality, Durability and Reliability), this in my books is a massive over-sight.
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Old 29th January 2024, 20:10   #11
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re: Toyota caught in diesel horsepower certification problem | Suspends the dispatch of diesels in India

Shall we look into this too again ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
Top carmakers face stiff penalties for violating emission norms.

The stiff penalties stem from the upgrade in the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) norms that is in effect from January 2023.


Attachment 2529457



Link
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Old 29th January 2024, 20:57   #12
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re: Toyota caught in diesel horsepower certification problem | Suspends the dispatch of diesels in India

This makes me want to buy the old cars, pretty sure they'll pass the PUC and give good performance in the real world. The reason why these cars don't meet the emission standards is because they've created impossible demands that there should be fire without smoke.

My question to ask those offended or hurt by this is, personally do you trust the government with your health?
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Old 29th January 2024, 21:10   #13
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re: Toyota caught in diesel horsepower certification problem | Suspends the dispatch of diesels in India

Present statements are simply corporate gibberish. It needs to be clarified in simple and straightforward terms to the people at large.

There must be absolute mayhem at the HQ and other offices.

Toyota needs to come clean with the explanation, and extensive damage control not just with relevant authorities, but with all affected customers as well.
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Old 29th January 2024, 21:33   #14
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re: Toyota caught in diesel horsepower certification problem | Suspends the dispatch of diesels in India

Seems like we’re close to finding out why the Toyota BS-6 Diesels have so many DPF issues.

But honestly, it’s quite shocking to see this. The last company I expected to hear about DPF issues was from Toyota. So much in the name of ‘reliability’.
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Old 29th January 2024, 21:38   #15
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re: Toyota caught in diesel horsepower certification problem | Suspends the dispatch of diesels in India

I will leave the technicalities aside since its not yet clear what exactly was rigged and where and how it would affect the customer. But what’s confusing to me is this seems to affect almost all BS6 Diesels of 1GD and 2GD engine types in India. But surprisingly they mention Fortuner sales start date as May 2020 and Innova Crysta as July 2020. The production of the BS6 Crysta and Fortuner began end of Feb 2020 and due to Covid lockdown the cars were stuck in the yard. Sales actually began for both cars in May 2020 and we were one of the first to get delivery of the BS6 Crysta.

I don’t believe they would have changed anything between May and July for the Crysta which they didnt for the Fortuner. Also, during the BS6 transition phase they increased the torque output of the 2.4L GD to 360Nm instead of 343Nm for the manual. Ever since that its been the same even though the 2.8L has got upgrades of torque.

Globally it is a norm to indicate recalls by manufacturing date but not sure why Toyota here decided to mention sales date which is very misleading just like their explanation of this issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashvek3141 View Post
Seems like we’re close to finding out why the Toyota BS-6 Diesels have so many DPF issues.

But honestly, it’s quite shocking to see this. The last company I expected to hear about DPF issues was from Toyota. So much in the name of ‘reliability’.
I am not sure where you heard of so many DPF issues. There are a few on the forum but its a small fraction compared to how many cars they sell and the sort of distance they cover. Also, the issue here doesnt relate to DPF but instead certification and sale inconsistencies. So better avoid speculation unless you can provide technical explanation to the turn of events.

Last edited by audioholic : 29th January 2024 at 21:41.
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