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Old 20th April 2024, 00:22   #31
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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser 250 launched at 28L in Japan | How can we import to India without Toyota's h

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haze View Post
This is how. A 10 lakh rupee ex-factory Seltos becomes a 14 lakh rupee Seltos ex-showroom, and a 17 lakh Rupee seltos on-road.

The government makes 7 lakh rupees per 17 lakh rupee car.

Now imagine how much the govt makes from a Fortuner.
Taxes , for a long time Toyota is shielding with it.
Lemme take two locally manufactured SUVs with similar features , similar body style, similar utility and similar tax bracket.

1. Toyota Fortuner 4x2 D AT - priced at 45L on road.
2. Mahindra SCORPION Z8S 4x2 AT - priced at 23L on road.

Now considering 50% of these prices are taxes and other charges,
let's consider the production costs as :

1. Fortuner 22.5L
2. ScorpioN 11.5L

Now why is the costs so high for a Fortuner, a Scorpio+11L?
This is the highest priced locally made product in India.

What's the secret behind this massive price difference between these 2 ladder frame diesel SUVs.

Literally production cost of Scorpio which is a similar product is just half of that of a Fortuner !

Now is this a govt problem or Toyota problem?
I'm confused on this question for few years now !

Another point is it's like somewhat base variant for a Fortuner, it can stretch up to 65L on road.
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Old 20th April 2024, 08:54   #32
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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser 250 launched at 28L in Japan | How can we import to India without Toyota's h

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Originally Posted by Bhodrolok View Post
If Toyota launch a LC 250 at 70 odd lakhs in India, they will not have room for the Fortuner to grow, so expect it at around 1Cr.
Considering that Fortuner is assembled/manufactured in India, they would not have to pay the import duties applicable to direct imports. Unfortunately, the Toyota Fortuner has now become a status symbol and Toyota is able to get away with the high price.

As you rightly pointed out Toyota is capitalising on this situation and justifying higher margins on their premium offerings.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 20th April 2024 at 10:37. Reason: Typos
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Old 20th April 2024, 10:22   #33
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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser 250 launched at 28L in Japan | How can we import to India without Toyota's h

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Originally Posted by Earthroamer View Post
I think people are forgetting to factor in the GST if it were to get to be legally sold in India, which would now make the price somewhere around 1.1 CR or so. This, I presume is the base model and the top variant could go upto 1.5 cr. This is in line with the pricing of Prado as well.
28 lakhs is what the japanese have to pay for the car, which includes Toyota's profit and Japanese taxes. But we Indians have to shell 4-5 times of that amount to get the car. Governments rely on tax income but this feels like day light robbery.
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Old 20th April 2024, 11:19   #34
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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser 250 launched at 28L in Japan | How can we import to India without Toyota's h

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Originally Posted by TorquePull View Post
28 lakhs is what the japanese have to pay for the car, which includes Toyota's profit and Japanese taxes. But we Indians have to shell 4-5 times of that amount to get the car. Governments rely on tax income but this feels like day light robbery.
Well taxes are daylight robbery. It literally was, when a king in England ordered all the households with more than 6 windows has to pay property taxes. People bricked those extra windows which reduced the daylight, hence the term.

On the other hand, objectively speaking, Japanese cars pushed Ford , Chrysler, GM to the verge of bankruptcy in US. Chrysler had to merge with Fiat, GM had to rely on govt bail outs, Ford had to resort to excessive borrowing to sustain. This was one of the biggest policy of Trump's campaign in 2016 where he wanted the Japanese to waive off taxes on US exported cars to level the playing field.

I love Japanese automobiles, I despise taxes, but if we allow them freely they could bludgeon Tata and Mahindra. This is the other side of the coin for these taxes being insanely high. The only way to mitigate this is, our govt taking proactive steps to establish end to end manufacturing (not just assembly lines) units of Toyota , Honda etc., which I doubt would be happening any time soon.
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Old 20th April 2024, 12:33   #35
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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser 250 launched at 28L in Japan | How can we import to India without Toyota's h

On the flip side, what profit margin does Toyota Japan make on sale in Japan? Are there any tax incentives which keep the price of the car lower in Japan?
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Old 20th April 2024, 18:12   #36
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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser 250 launched at 28L in Japan | How can we import to India without Toyota's h

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Originally Posted by TorqueIndia View Post
Now why is the costs so high for a Fortuner, a Scorpio+11L?
And this is when Toyota is globally renowned for their manufacturing prowess. Don't know where are they messing up in India. Is it the JV with Kirloskar?

Last edited by ampere : 20th April 2024 at 19:55.
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Old 20th April 2024, 18:44   #37
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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser 250 launched at 28L in Japan | How can we import to India without Toyota's h

could it be due to some parts being imported and hence attracting high duties?

Although I agree that Toyota is gouging the market for their brand name.
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Old 20th April 2024, 20:52   #38
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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser 250 launched at 28L in Japan | How can we import to India without Toyota's h

I officially transferred my residence from silicon valley of USA to Silicon valley of India in a 40 feet container with expenses paid on actuals. This decision of moving back was taken in a matter of minutes with fastest finger first ( after the e mail sent, the first few who voted are given full relocation money ).

I quickly did some googling in 2008 and found a lot of information very confusing. I wanted to bring my Mercedes kompressor which is more than 3 years old and was registered in my name. The steering has to be moved to right side by an authorised service center. Being a petrol head, it was my dream to bring my Benz to India. But unfortunately time was running out and all people I contacted discouraged me. Then I did a marathon shopping for designer furniture brand new in factory packing boxes and loaded them into container. I came back to Bangalore and was hunting for a villa to put my 100 kg each speaker of cerwin vega along with a monster amplifier of cerwin wega. As all are brand new items, the custom officer in Chennai gave me a gyan on what are rules of transfer of residence and what is meant by used furniture. I ended up paying a huge custom duty. Thank God I never brought my Benz , otherwise it would have been a financial blunder.

Coming back to the agenda of this thread. I am wondering if some one in Japan can bring his almost new used land cruiser on transfer of residence and sell it you if it is really worth the effort.

Last edited by Mystic : 20th April 2024 at 20:54.
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Old 20th April 2024, 22:43   #39
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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser 250 launched at 28L in Japan | How can we import to India without Toyota's h

The double whammy of lack of choice (particularly global products) and the higher on road cost is the singular reason for my disillusionment with peers in some other countries. Acquisition of an automobile in our country with the present tax structure is no small feat. This thread just rekindled my heartburn.

Last edited by GeeTee TSI : 20th April 2024 at 22:45.
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Old 20th April 2024, 23:23   #40
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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser 250 launched at 28L in Japan | How can we import to India without Toyota's h

Doesn't make any sense to import unless one can pay the obscene and sky-high import duties as applicable to completely built units (CBU's). Toyota manufactures and sources a good amount of components for the Innova range indigenously, which is affordably priced, though slightly on the higher side. The Fortuner assembled here has many imported components, as low economies of scale go against manufacturing such components here. Its ex-showroom price reaches obscene levels with added translucency regarding Toyota pricings by TKML, India. Similar economies of scale would require the Land Cruiser to be fully imported as a CBU by TKML.The Mustang was imported as a CBU and do recollect its sky-high pricing and tardy sales figures.

For any automobile to be manufactured here, volumes are required to set shop, be it any OEM.

Import of auto components too attract unexpected, high custom duties. A 2009-13 Honda City's India made, front suspension strut (UNO MINDA SS-1905AFL Strut Assembly (Gas) Front - LH For Honda City Type V (2009-13)) costs about Rs 4,200. Whereas for the 2017 Honda CR-V a similar front suspension strut (Part Number: 51621-TLB-A01) costs Rs 20 K as it is not made here, but imported after paying custom duties.

Last edited by anjan_c2007 : 20th April 2024 at 23:35.
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Old 21st April 2024, 08:41   #41
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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser 250 launched at 28L in Japan | How can we import to India without Toyota's h

Just wait for this to happen! It is highly probable.

Nitin proposed a tax cut on strong hybrid. Now madamji need to understand that and make a sense out of the whole hybrid/ev/emission/tax loss etc. But Nitin is famous for his determination to get things done with his seniority and negotiation skills (like he did with Tesla). Since Tesla is here almost, now, it is fair to implement that similar tax regime to hybrid (Japanese government is not going to be happy watching this, as they have more say with all their fundings and donations to India and its infrastructure build ups in every nook and corner of the country here in India) and Japanese will make sure India does this. This will bring down cost of Hybrid Hycross up to 5.5 lakhs for example (link). There is high chance, Toyota being a dominant hybrid player, can quickly bring more hybrid models at will, these all my assumptions but has possibility. They just introduced a mild hybrid Fortuner as well. Usually, Toyota does long term plans and we never know, they might have some surprises. Personally, I want more hybrids for a country like us before we move to a more stable EV battery technology. Let us just wait and watch the next eventful 2-5 years for both EV and Auto industry in general.

Last edited by sgmuser : 21st April 2024 at 08:43. Reason: typos
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Old 22nd April 2024, 08:33   #42
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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser 250 launched at 28L in Japan | How can we import to India without Toyota's h

An alternate is.
If someone has even half of the money required to buy an LC in India. They better go to Japan, buy an LC, stay there few months and enjoy driving the car. They'll have opportunity to see Japan as well, can own an LC as well.
Can revisit Japan every few months.

What would be the maths for this.
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Old 22nd April 2024, 12:48   #43
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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser 250 launched at 28L in Japan | How can we import to India without Toyota's h

Quote:
Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
Toyota manufactures and sources a good amount of components for the Innova range indigenously, which is affordably priced, though slightly on the higher side.

For any automobile to be manufactured here, volumes are required to set shop, be it any OEM.
There is an even bigger problem, Fortuner and Crysta are cousins sharing most of the components including chassis and even the drivetrains previously in the BS4 2.8 unit.

I don't understand what's TKM is importing for Fortuner, being a product sold in India for the last 15 years.

Yes , they might be importing the legender bumpers or the dashboard trims, of course every AT box sold in India is imported including the CVTs, DCTs, and TCs.
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Old 23rd April 2024, 01:41   #44
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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser 250 launched at 28L in Japan | How can we import to India without Toyota's h

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Originally Posted by TorqueIndia View Post
Someone please throw some light on this puzzle !

LC 300 top end diesel price JP : INR 43L
LC 300 India ex. show price : INR 2.1 CR

Vellfire topend hybrid price JP : INR 47L
Vellfire topend India ex.show price : INR 1.3 CR

Day light robbery?
Goes to show that ultimately all machinery are metal bent shaped and forged to meet our needs.
The price that it will command is the price a buyer is willing to pay for it.

So in a market like Japan where people will pay around 43L for an LC 300, it will command 43L, and in our market folks are ready to shell out 2.1 CR for the same, it will command 2.1 CR.

There is no daylight robbery here. Why wouldn't an OEM sell at the highest price they can manage to get.
Folks are ready to shell out 60L for a Fortuner, hence it is sold at that price. Wouldn't be surprised if it reaches 1 CR in future going by the current trend.

Its upto our buyer base here to refrain from buying at unreasonable pricing if there is a need to bring the pricing (and taxation) down.
Thats not going to happen in the luxury segment due to the false sense of 'status symbol' factor. So prices will continue going upwards.

Last edited by for_cars1 : 23rd April 2024 at 02:01.
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Old 7th May 2024, 15:16   #45
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Re: Toyota Land Cruiser 250 launched at 28L in Japan | How can we import to India without Toyota's h

Having imported 1 off cars before, the duty rate will roughly be 188% of your landed cost (cost of vehicle + shipping + insurance). Finding a retailer willing to go through the trouble of the export documentation is another thing to keep in mind. Also, you can't import a car under USD value of 40,000, since this is, they will value it at USD 40,000 and 188% from there. Road tax is also calculated based on all of the above combined.

Also, there are quite a bit of certification, compliance certificates for the rubber, brake fluid, AC coolant, and such that will hinder the process.
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