Delhi HC asks govt to phase out Diesel Cars !!

Rocky_Balboa · 24th August 2007, 11:07

2000 more autos to run in Bangalore!!!?
What are these rto guys thinking!!!!

coming to the topic, as usual, looks like the SC is directing decisions without appropriate read-through... phase out all diesel vehicles! i am eager to know whats next to be phased out!!

CrAzY dRiVeR · 24th August 2007, 11:10

Dont think modern diesels will be affected. No need to worry for CRDi/DDiS/TDCi/TCDi/DiCOR/CRDe owners!

Quote:

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

They should probably phase out the judge who passed the order.

srishiva · 24th August 2007, 11:25

First of all Euro III in petrol and Euro III in diesel are different. Petrol Euro III is always better than diesel Euro III. Thats what I think.

CO is converted to CO2 in petrol cars (that why they have cats). Right now its wrong to say Diesel is cleaner than petrol (that would be a joke).

The current developments in diesels (bluetec, Honda clean diesel, VW clean diesels) will be on par with petrols. But not yet. CRDi is not at par with current petrols.

Only advantage of current diesels over current petrols is less CO2 and ofcourse efficiency.

abhilashvk · 24th August 2007, 11:30

Quote:

Only advantage of current diesels over current petrols is less CO2 and ofcourse efficiency

How about no Carbon Monoxide in diesels?

srishiva · 24th August 2007, 11:34

Well, How about no CO in petrols (that what a cat converter does). Ultimately, its all about how good your cat converter is going to be. One who can develop a good one that converts bad gases into harmless ones will have the cleanest emission. In diesel, thats what is complicated and took so many years to develop.

On the other hand, since in U.S, they may start counting CO2 also as a pollutant, it will be a good struggle for automakers to make big displacement engines.

rjstyles69 · 24th August 2007, 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

They should probably phase out the judge who passed the order.

Well said dude. You are right the judge needs to be phased out.

Aren't they considering phasing out the old junkie's from the govt fleets ?

Add up the auto's which run on kerosene and the cabs, these are the actual polluters in town.

Eddy · 24th August 2007, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjstyles69

Well said dude. You are right the judge needs to be phased out.

Aren't they considering phasing out the old junkie's from the govt fleets ?

Add up the auto's which run on kerosene and the cabs, these are the actual polluters in town.

They have already done that in Delhi actually, all Autos and cabs run on CNG

srishiva · 24th August 2007, 11:57

Why can't one average guy in the government try to retrofit our bad 2 stroke auto engines with 4 stroke ones ? How much could it mean for controlling pollution and increasing the efficiency. Banning two stroke engines from cities would make our cities much cleaner.

The local manufacturers are screwing up the environment.

LLL · 24th August 2007, 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

They should probably phase out the judge who passed the order.

I think the judge has the right intention, but the proposed solution is not great.

How about govt giving a duty exemption to manufacturers who launch hybrids? Or make it mandatory for manufacturers to provide CNG option in every car?

phamilyman · 24th August 2007, 13:42

Isnt SPM content much higher in modern diesels even? Isn't that why diesels aren't allowed into some national parks?

Plus SPM unlike CO2 etc can't be uptaken by trees, so its a more persistent and invisible killer.

And hey, hardly any of us love only diesels, we just love our automotives, and want them to run real cheap, right?

Zappo · 24th August 2007, 14:03

The problem lies in the fact that government creates an artificial scenario where people are forced to go a particular way. The differences in petrol and diesel prices are one such. Why can not they bring down the petrol prices to the same level as diesel? Ultimately its all the crappy duties and levies which jack up the prices to those crazy levels. Make them cost the same and then lets see what happens! There will be some who would still go for diesels because of the higher FE figures they give or others who love the oodles of low end grunt that a diesel can provide. But we will see a more balanced distribution in the future growth of cars.

The problem is our rulers do not think with a long term perspective. Its always a patchwork that they carry out. They wanted to earn revenues so they went on dreaming up new taxes and levying them on fuel. Then they realized that diesel which runs the economy causes max inflation as well because of its higher price. So they decided to keep the diesel prices low. Again a patchwork for just the problem in hand. Now they think that diesel cars are polluting the environment and hence they will ban diesel cars maybe. Another patchwork... and then someone will file a PIL probably claiming conflict of interest (1st you raise petrol prices, then you yourself ban the usage of the cheaper fuel = force people to use the costly fuel only). So then they will again start thinking about the next patchwork they can do.

abhilashvk · 24th August 2007, 16:04

Quote:

Isnt SPM content much higher in modern diesels even? Isn't that why diesels aren't allowed into some national parks?

Plus SPM unlike CO2 etc can't be uptaken by trees, so its a more persistent and invisible killer

SPM - mostly carbon particles is the least dangerous because it will get settled after sometime..Carbon Monoxide is the most dangerous and cataletic convertors reduce the emission, they do not eliminate completely.

cypher · 24th August 2007, 16:13

I wonder if the Delhi HC is asking for a study to be done before passing a judgment. I'm sure they would need data to back up their order.

tez · 24th August 2007, 16:16

btw the order mentions "directing conversion of all diesel buses to CNG." I thought only petrol engines could be converted for dual use.

abhilashvk · 24th August 2007, 16:18

Quote:

Well, How about no CO in petrols (that what a cat converter does). Ultimately, its all about how good your cat converter is going to be. One who can develop a good one that converts bad gases into harmless ones will have the cleanest emission. In diesel, thats what is complicated and took so many years to develop.

Such cases call for introducing a diesel particulate filter..Note the quote from Wikipedia on the same

24th August 2007, 11:07	#16
Rocky_Balboa BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Namma Bengalooru Posts: 676 Thanked: 358 Times View My Garage	2000 more autos to run in Bangalore!!!? What are these rto guys thinking!!!! coming to the topic, as usual, looks like the SC is directing decisions without appropriate read-through... phase out all diesel vehicles! i am eager to know whats next to be phased out!!
	() Thanks

24th August 2007, 11:25	#18
srishiva Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 4,375 Thanked: 2,256 Times	First of all Euro III in petrol and Euro III in diesel are different. Petrol Euro III is always better than diesel Euro III. Thats what I think. CO is converted to CO2 in petrol cars (that why they have cats). Right now its wrong to say Diesel is cleaner than petrol (that would be a joke). The current developments in diesels (bluetec, Honda clean diesel, VW clean diesels) will be on par with petrols. But not yet. CRDi is not at par with current petrols. Only advantage of current diesels over current petrols is less CO2 and ofcourse efficiency.
	() Thanks

24th August 2007, 11:34	#20
srishiva Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 4,375 Thanked: 2,256 Times	Well, How about no CO in petrols (that what a cat converter does). Ultimately, its all about how good your cat converter is going to be. One who can develop a good one that converts bad gases into harmless ones will have the cleanest emission. In diesel, thats what is complicated and took so many years to develop. On the other hand, since in U.S, they may start counting CO2 also as a pollutant, it will be a good struggle for automakers to make big displacement engines.
	() Thanks

24th August 2007, 11:57	#23
srishiva Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 4,375 Thanked: 2,256 Times	Why can't one average guy in the government try to retrofit our bad 2 stroke auto engines with 4 stroke ones ? How much could it mean for controlling pollution and increasing the efficiency. Banning two stroke engines from cities would make our cities much cleaner. The local manufacturers are screwing up the environment.
	() Thanks

24th August 2007, 13:42	#25
phamilyman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 5,968 Thanked: 4,642 Times	Isnt SPM content much higher in modern diesels even? Isn't that why diesels aren't allowed into some national parks? Plus SPM unlike CO2 etc can't be uptaken by trees, so its a more persistent and invisible killer. And hey, hardly any of us love only diesels, we just love our automotives, and want them to run real cheap, right?
	() Thanks

24th August 2007, 14:03	#26
Zappo Team-BHP Support Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 5,922 Thanked: 2,699 Times	The problem lies in the fact that government creates an artificial scenario where people are forced to go a particular way. The differences in petrol and diesel prices are one such. Why can not they bring down the petrol prices to the same level as diesel? Ultimately its all the crappy duties and levies which jack up the prices to those crazy levels. Make them cost the same and then lets see what happens! There will be some who would still go for diesels because of the higher FE figures they give or others who love the oodles of low end grunt that a diesel can provide. But we will see a more balanced distribution in the future growth of cars. The problem is our rulers do not think with a long term perspective. Its always a patchwork that they carry out. They wanted to earn revenues so they went on dreaming up new taxes and levying them on fuel. Then they realized that diesel which runs the economy causes max inflation as well because of its higher price. So they decided to keep the diesel prices low. Again a patchwork for just the problem in hand. Now they think that diesel cars are polluting the environment and hence they will ban diesel cars maybe. Another patchwork... and then someone will file a PIL probably claiming conflict of interest (1st you raise petrol prices, then you yourself ban the usage of the cheaper fuel = force people to use the costly fuel only). So then they will again start thinking about the next patchwork they can do.
	() Thanks

24th August 2007, 16:13	#28
cypher BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 153 Thanked: 4 Times	I wonder if the Delhi HC is asking for a study to be done before passing a judgment. I'm sure they would need data to back up their order.
	() Thanks

24th August 2007, 16:16	#29
tez BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: pune Posts: 381 Thanked: 16 Times	btw the order mentions "directing conversion of all diesel buses to CNG." I thought only petrol engines could be converted for dual use.
	() Thanks