[AROO7]

Originally Posted by aseem23

Living with the BS6 Tucson Diesel and Toyota Land Cruiser. Never faced any DPF filter issues, and both diesels are fun to drive.

I second that. I am living with XUV 700 Diesel AT and loving every bit of it. Petrol has its own charm, but there is no reason to hate diesels. As far as DPF issues are concerned, if to date someone is facing it, then they need to seriously look at their driving style/route. Just one or two pedal to the metal rides once in a while, and you are sorted.

Also, OP should avoid quoting a brand, especially Mahindra. TBH, if you ask any one who knows a thing or two about engines, they will never say Mahindra diesel mills are bad.

[satya180]

Show me a non-cabbie who does 17.8K in a year and I will stop speaking right there.

My Dec 2023 Carens 1.5D 6AT had done 42k kms in the first 12 months, which is my work commute, Pune-Mumbai and multiple work trips to GJ, KA. Also includes weekend baby play area, trips and family drives.

Im out travelling again (without the car) so car has only added 5k kms in the past 5 months (moms commute).

The rest of the cars in the family are Petrols (2 X GT TSI 1.0 and 1 X Rumion 1.5 6AT) and I dread using them purely because of running costs (~17kmpl in the Carens vs more or less 10kmpl in the others)

The Innova Hycross 2.0 Hybrid at my in-laws place also returns 13-14 kmpl when driven sedately with regenerative braking, which is good but still expensive for me, and my friends Grand Vitara 1.5 Hybrid returns 18-20 kmpl which i think is acceptable.

A diesel powertrain will be my first option always for as long as they're available, and then ill first switch to a nice hybrid and then electric, purely because of the huge differences in running costs.

Also never faced any DPF issues till date.

Fun to drive, sure. Sport mode with the 1.5D 6AT has made me lose 12k in challans for doing 64 kmph in a 60 zone on the expressway.

Come on, Its a van with a diesel, please do not expect 'fun-to-drive' written anywhere in the brochure or ownership experience. it does the job, its not unacceptable, thats it.

[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by Xpresstrainfast

Show me a non-cabbie who does 17.8K in a year and I will stop speaking right there.

Makes even the more premium cars sound like jugaad trucks.

Let me come to the annual usage later.

Regarding diesels being noisy, drive a XUV7OO or a harrier diesel at 120 kmph and then an Elevate at 120 kmph. The honda is noisier when it comes to overall NVH. Modern diesels are pretty refined.

Originally Posted by FlankerFury

You
Last I read this thread, it was on the verge of completing 100k kms. The vehicle is about 4 years old.

arun_josie's Jeep Compass (Scarlett comes home | My Jeep Compass Limited (O) 4x4 | EDIT: 1,70,000 kms up!)
The Jeep is 6 years old and has covered 171k kms.

sids1811's Hyundai Alcazar Diesel (Hyundai Alcazar Review)
This car had covered 50kms in little less than a year. The post is from 2023 so I'm certain the car has crossed 100k kms by now.

ashis89's Kia Seltos Diesel (Ownership Review | My Kia Seltos HTK+ 1.5L Diesel MT (Coyote) | EDIT: 5 years, 86,000 km up!)

PrassanaDhana's Tata Altroz Diesel (Prassy's 1st Small Tata | 2021 Altroz XZ+ 1.5L Diesel | Ownership Review | 75,000 km update)
This car is about 4 years old and has covered 77k kms.

Just a small change, 80,000 km in 3.5 years. I got the car in November 2021.

And regarding annual usage, I drive 5 different cars, clocking 50,000 km a year. I know many such people who drive like me or more. As you rightly said, many private users drive more than cabbies.

I have been contemplating for a long time getting a TSI. But my experience using a lot of diesel engines (1.3 FGT, 1.3 DDIS, 3.0 CR4, 1.5 NA diesel, 1.3 VGT, 1.0 Multijet, 2.2 in three different tunes in 3 different cars, 2.0 Multijet, 1.5 TDI, 1.6 TDI, 1.5 Revotorq, 2.0 IDI), the so called hig revving power of turbo petrols isn't enticing. Modern diesels are as fast while giving 100% more fuel efficiency.

Imagine a 1.5 TSI returning 8 kmpl in the city and 12 kmpl on the highways. A 2.0L / 2.2L turbodiesel today is as fast on the highways while returning an easy 11 kmpl in the city and 16 kmpl on the highways. A 1.5L turbodiesel will be slightly slower but will return an easy 15 kmpl im the city and 22 kmpl on the highways.

Diesels are awesome

[aseem23]

Originally Posted by Xpresstrainfast

Show me a non-cabbie who does 17.8K in a year and I will stop speaking right there.

Tucson BS6 Diesel averaging around 20k kms/yr, The Land Cruiser LC300 averages around 30k kms/yr, 2019 Merc GLS averaging 30 kms/yr. Different people have different usage, and let's respect that . Some like diesel, some like petrol, some like EVs. To each own it's own

[akshaysawant]

Originally Posted by Xpresstrainfast

Show me a non-cabbie who does 17.8K in a year and I will stop speaking right there.

Then, don't forget the massive power compromise (158 BHP vs 113 BHP). Also, do you drive the entire time in a such a way that you get 12.5 KMPL? No. We sometimes do casual cruising too. So, it's more than 17.8 KMPL. I also don't like that Diesel clatter. Makes even the more premium cars sound like jugaad trucks.

I do. My Hyundai Verna diesel sx(o)from Oct 2012 to September 2019 did 1,65,000 kms. Was very happy with the entire diesel scenario, hence booked a Kia Seltos GTX+ diesel auto, which has done almost 75,000 kms in 05 years with almost 02 lockdown years in which the car was driven not more than 10k combined.

Diesels are fun. People driving them would know. Driving refined engines is another thing, you barely feel any diesel clutter. Hyundai’s 1.6l engine was hoot to drive, forgive its driving dynamics though. Seltos is refined too but linear in nature.

I would personally never want diesels to go away. Compared to these turbo petrols, I find them more fuel efficient and even reliable in the long run. I have Skoda Slavia as well. Press the A pedal little harder and the mileage plummets to single digits.

I have never faced DPF problem till date in my Seltos and I remain hopeful in near future. Believe me, that combination of that refined diesel engine and TC gear box is rare and reliable.

[Xpresstrainfast]

Originally Posted by RM Motorsports

Kia Carens Clavis - Rear

Where did you source this from?

Note to other BHPians: Enough of that diesel debate. I apologise for the misinformation. Anyway, knowing Kia, the Clavis will definitely come with a Diesel ( And in fact, lots of engine + gearbox combo). As pointed by DicKy, if I don't like diesels, I should have said it like that instead of wishing that the Clavis doesn't get it at all. Just thought Kia could mimic Boss Maruti by forcing customers to one choice.

[sreejithkk]

Looks like now it comes with panoramic sunroof and collision warning, from the below video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KNrVfJ-zQs&t=20s

[uneaz]

Originally Posted by sreejithkk

Looks like now it comes with panoramic sunroof and collision warning, from the below video.
https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=_KNrVfJ-zQs&t=20s

Appears to be a cosmetic changeover on the 2024 Alcazar, unlike the prior Carens. Would perhaps also be in same price band.

[blackwasp]

Originally Posted by Xpresstrainfast

Diesels are just so outdated. The BS6 ones are a nightmare to live with, especially with that DPF Filter. Just ask Mahindra owners.

We have a Thar diesel AT that does probably 10 km per day for dad’s office run and long drives maybe once every 3 months. Never faced DPF issue.

Show me a non-cabbie who does 17.8K in a year and I will stop speaking right there.

I’ve done 50k kms on my Nov 2023 Ignis.

While I can understand your personal preference, many of us had get a petrol car due to lack of options and not because we don’t like diesels. I feel there’s still a large diesel market which car makers are failing to understand. A plug in hybrid might be able to fill the gap, but the EVs and other strong hybrids on sale are just not able to fill that gap.

OT - I feel Hyundai Kia is playing it right with its diesels, need to wait and see how it fares for the Clavis.

[FlankerFury]

Originally Posted by Xpresstrainfast

Enough of that diesel debate

Last post from my side on this one then, I had this post as a draft ready since this morning . Just needed little grammatical clean ups, some references and sources.

Originally Posted by Xpresstrainfast

@FlankerFury, Out of curiosity, Americans drive a lot and in fact, a lot more than we do. Yet, they prefer Gas. So why don't we?

It's mainly cultural and in some parts economical.

Gasoline prices in US are actually lower than diesel prices.

gasprices.aaa.com

Then there's the American emission norms to consider. Now these EPA norms focus strongly on reducing smog. They do this by regulating NOx (Oxides of Nitrogen) and PM (Particulate Matter).
Diesels don't fare well here. They require tonnes of complicated mechanisms like LNTs, DPFs, EGRs and ultra low sulphur diesel which adds costs to an already expensive engine.

Contrast this with Euro norms which emphasized reduction of CO2 instead. Diesels excel in these kind of norms, that's why they became so popular in Europe.
Once Europe realised the error they corrected it in subsequent Euro norms, which is why diesels fell out of favour in their markets.

ICCT_comparison Euro v US.pdf

Lastly, Americans did dabble in diesels - during the Oil Crisis of 1973.

General Motors simply converted their existing petrol engines to run on diesel but forgot to reinforce the internals so their engines had poor reliability.
This left a lasting impact and for many Americans diesels meant unreliable and underpowered.

Attaching some links below from my reading list for readers' perusal.
TheAutopian | How GM screwed diesels in America
motor1.com | Oldsmobile Diesel

Then in the 2000's VW tried to popularize diesels in America with their TDI engines, but Dieselgate happened and that killed diesels for a second time in the American market.

They have access to good alternatives to diesel in the form of hybrids and PHEVs now so there won't be another chance for diesel's to grow in the American market.

[EternalCarEnthu]

This test mule was spotted right in front of Kia factory. Looked like Carens facelift to me. Based on the teaser, this might be clavis. I noticed the at the rear is slightly wider.

[mrstealthy007]

Originally Posted by Xpresstrainfast

Let's say one gets 12.5 KMPL with the Gas engine (Turbo) and 17.5 KMPL with the Diesel. For 1 km, it is 1/12.5 for the petrol, i.e 2/25. For the diesel, 2/35. When you calculate fuel prices (90 for diesel and 100 for gas), it becomes 200/25 (In simple, 8) per km for petrol and 180/35 for diesel (approx 5.2). You get a difference of 2.8. You need 17,800+ kilometers to justify the differences. Moderator GTO's car has just 56K on the odo after 12 years. In other words, if his coverage was uniform, he needed 3 to 4 years to justify that distance. If you were to argue that he spends half his mileage on media cars, then my father's XL6 probably has just 40K after 5 years, which is 8K a year. Show me a non-cabbie who does 17.8K in a year and I will stop speaking right there.

Then, don't forget the massive power compromise (158 BHP vs 113 BHP). Also, do you drive the entire time in a such a way that you get 12.5 KMPL? No. We sometimes do casual cruising too. So, it's more than 17.8 KMPL. I also don't like that Diesel clatter. Makes even the more premium cars sound like jugaad trucks.

Our 2012 1.4D Verna is now clocking in at almost 250000 KMs. Pretty much all of those done within the city of Mumbai, with a couple of trips to Pune or Surat.
The 1.4D returns about 15-16kmpl in Mumbai traffic, 20kmpl while cruising at city speeds and closer to 25kmpl on expressways (at 90kmph) While our 2024 Verna 1.5 NA does 8, 13, 17 kmpl respectively in the same conditions. That is why despite it's age the older verna is still the vehicle of choice for city commutes.

I digress, I genuinely hope Hyundai-Kia and Tata-Mahindra keep the diesels for as long as possible (and hopefully reintroduce it in the Verna). I also hope sense prevails and VAG reintroduces the 2.0 TDI in the Kodiaq, Octavia, Superb, and even Q3,Q5,A4,A6. They're really struggling in that segment.

[Doonite]

I don't even understand why people are hell bent on crunching numbers when it comes to buying diesels. Some people (including me) just love diesels.

Our Fortuner 4x2 AT has done barely 15k kilometres in 2.5 years, but we didn't buy that car or any other car to do a calculation of how much we need to run for it to breakeven v/s a equivalent petrol counterpart.

I love my diesel engines (especially the big ones). Pile 5 hefty individuals in the car with luggage loaded to the brim and want to go to Kedarnath/Badrinath etc.? No issues because the oodles of torques just makes the car glide.

I haven't driven expensive turbo petrols (other than Audi 2.0TFSI) and don't like NA petrol engines of mass market cars. For us, it's one car that has to be an all rounder for every kind of activity and a "diesel" SUV is the perfect fit.

P.S 0 DPF issues in 2.5 years of ownership.

[BB311]

Originally Posted by Xpresstrainfast

Show me a non-cabbie who does 17.8K in a year and I will stop speaking right there.

I am not a cabbie, and I have completed 36k in 1 year, and I know a lot of other bhpians in NCR circle with similar stats. None of them are cabbies.

[speed400]

Originally Posted by Xpresstrainfast

You need 17,800+ kilometers to justify the differences.

Your conclusion seems opposite to your justification. 17800 kms like only about a year and a half's running for the average user. Which means diesels start providing returns in just 2 years or so.