[X-Machine]

Well,its frankly a No.Its not all that easy to provide a car worth 1lac.I believe Tata had announced this about 2-3 years ago,if i aint mistaken.
And do we really need this car with the usual M800 and Zens doing the rounds in the used car markets for that amount???
All i hope for is they dunt make a Pakistani Sitara kinda car which will embarass India to death!!!

X

[Dovin]

If a nice stylish motorcycle that can easily carry 2 people can be made under 40,000 Rs, why not a car which is essentially 2 of them put together. 4 wheels, 2 engines (or 1 with the power of 2, should be more cost effective), 4 seats, 2 headlamps & taillamps. The only real extras I can think of are the roof and side body covering and the steering wheel/differential axle thing. If the body is a single piece of moulded fiberglass, including the seats and floor that cost could also be contained. I think it is possible to make an under 1 lakh car that looks not too worse than the old 'dolphin', but may be Bajaj is the company to do it, not tatas...

[v12]

Definitely it is possible. A car like the Dolphin is definitely possible. But will it be worth 1 lakh is the main question. You can easily get a 2nd hand Maruti 800 with more features/power/safety/reliable in the same money.

[Dovin]

but a second hand 'dolphin' will cost under 30,000 then.. also by the same logic, why would anyone buy a new 800 when a 2nd hand santro or indica or can be had for 2.5 lakhs in good shape ? Of course there might be a bottom limit on this argument after which other factors like fuel cost and the lifestyle/status choices take over.. for eg would a lower middle class person buy a 2nd hand car (old Fiat say) at 25000 Rs or a new bajaj scooter for about the same cost ? I'd think bajaj.. so I think the limiting factor on the success of a car under 1 lakh is not availability of 800, but someone who wants to buy a 'new' vehicle under 1 lakh (or some amount thereabout) may have a lifestyle/status/aspiration that matches a good motorbike and not a car.. while someone who buys an old 800 has a lifestyle/status/aspiration that matches atleast a new zen/hyundai but cannot afford it now..
just some random thoughts..

[Samurai]

I was reading this Ratan Tata interview about Rs.1 lakh car. I am guessing the target segment would be families with motorcycles and scooters. However, most members in this forum won't fall in that segment. But then would you consider buying the 1 lakh car if it is available? Would it be any better than a Golf cart?

Read Ratan Tata's thought on it....

What volumes would you look at for the Rs 1 lakh-plus car?
Let me first tell you what the potential is. Leave growth figures out, take the snapshot today -- we sell 5 million two-wheelers and about 600,000 low-end cars.

You can position a product well below the conventional car, slightly below the used small car and into the motorcycle range, for families that ride three or four on a scooter -- the 2CV Citroen or Deux Chevaux approach.

Today, the opportunity to do something like that by using plastics, smaller engines, superior packaging is far, far greater. We hope we can give the public the car that probably has 80-90 per cent of the inner space of the Indica, rear engine, not a stripped down car, not a motorcycle with four wheels.

The advantage is that you start from scratch. So you really look at what you can do. We wanted to be able to manufacture this on a low-cost assembly base and we'd like to develop the manufacturing modules along with the car.

We would produce all the high volume cars and kits ourselves. So, in effect only the assembly will be done outside. What we need is low-cost assembly akin to a CKD or an SKU kind of operation here.

This has not been done in the automobile industry anywhere.

The automobile industry has always looked at scale not only in components but also in assembly. So we've got to break that paradigm. You're amortising all that cost and all the robotics and everything else.

You do enough to ensure that you've got consistent quality and you can work that into the design. For instance, you have 80-90 robots welding a car. So maybe you can develop a process that doesn't require welding but uses adhesives and so on.

[amitoj]

The first image that comes to mind is that of the already crumbling infrastructure of most major cities... if Tatas pull this off and there is a 1 lakh car in the market... jus imagine wot it will do to traffic jams!! And what it will do to the environment!
I will be among the first in line to pack their bags and move high up in the mountains.

[vishaltanksale]

Originally Posted by amitoj

The first image that comes to mind is that of the already crumbling infrastructure of most major cities... if Tatas pull this off and there is a 1 lakh car in the marketup in the mountains.

Can't agree more...this is just the receipe for bigtime chaos in all Indian cities

[Samurai]

I see my poll got merged with a different poll on 1L car. My question wasn't whether Tata can do it. I was asking whether members would buy a 1 Lakh car if it is available.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by Samurai

But then would you consider buying the 1 lakh car if it is available? Would it be any better than a Golf cart?

Read Ratan Tata's thought on it....
...............
Today, the opportunity to do something like that by using plastics, smaller engines, superior packaging is far, far greater. We hope we can give the public the car that probably has 80-90 per cent of the inner space of the Indica, rear engine, not a stripped down car, not a motorcycle with four wheels.

.........

We would produce all the high volume cars and kits ourselves. So, in effect only the assembly will be done outside. What we need is low-cost assembly akin to a CKD or an SKU kind of operation here.

This has not been done in the automobile industry anywhere.

........................

So maybe you can develop a process that doesn't require welding but uses adhesives and so on. [/i]

Why do I get this feeling that he is bringing the Smart Car model of car manufacture to India? The Smart comes with a phenomenal steel cage that gives better safety than other cars, has plastic panels for non-critical elements that do not contribute to safety, has a tiny engine mounted at the rear, uses space-age adhesives instead of a weldshop and can be put together at the dealer's place ! Check out www.smart.com if you dont know about this very practical two-seater.

Having owned the Smart for a while now (and loving every minute of it!) I had always thought that a 4-seat version of it would be the tailor-made product for India. The only issue was the cost of manufacture, since it was made by Mercedes Benz in France - two factors that would probably multiply the overheads by over 5 times when compared to India.

If they can manage it, I think it will find a huge market because Mr. Tata has gone on record quite a few times that the product WILL NOT be a stripped-down car or a motorcycle-on-wheels.

ANd if they do manage it, I would imagine that their erstwhile partners MB wouldnt be averse to outsourcing the production of the Smart series to India - they realise that while the car makes sense, the price does not because of the cost of manufacture.

The big question is, CAN THEY?

Cheers
Steer

[pingme]

By going thro' this thread I remember early days when Ratan Tata used to talk about Indica before its launch...and it too got too similar reactions

I have no doubt about that man's vision and ability...Read his latest interview on

http://in.rediff.com/money/2005/mar/18inter.htm

The idea seems to be reduce the costs by some innovative ways...

[serious_maniac]

Well Tata can pull off the 1 lakh car but it will not exactly be one lakh. Going by the comments of Ratan Tata, it seems they are going to sell "Car Kits" lets say for 1 lakh or thereabouts and you get it assembled from "authorized assemblers". Guess this is what he means when he says this:

"We would produce all the high volume cars and kits ourselves. So, in effect only the assembly will be done outside. What we need is low-cost assembly akin to a CKD or an SKU kind of operation here.

This has not been done in the automobile industry anywhere. "

This shall also bring down the taxes that you pay on ex-showroom cost and the "no-frills" model or "car-kit" will be priced at 1 lakh and anything that you buy over and above the basic car kit is extra. Its going to be exciting if Tata can pull this off...going against the industry paradigm of big assembly shops et. al.

~maniac

[pingme]

Originally Posted by serious_maniac

Well Tata can pull off the 1 lakh car but it will not exactly be one lakh. Going by the comments of Ratan Tata, it seems they are going to sell "Car Kits" lets say for 1 lakh or thereabouts and you get it assembled from "authorized assemblers". Guess this is what he means when he says this:

"We would produce all the high volume cars and kits ourselves. So, in effect only the assembly will be done outside. What we need is low-cost assembly akin to a CKD or an SKU kind of operation here.

This has not been done in the automobile industry anywhere. "

This shall also bring down the taxes that you pay on ex-showroom cost and the "no-frills" model or "car-kit" will be priced at 1 lakh and anything that you buy over and above the basic car kit is extra. Its going to be exciting if Tata can pull this off...going against the industry paradigm of big assembly shops et. al.

~maniac

I remember his other inteview..I think "done outside" means by small scale industries or those TELCO certified suppliers will assemble it rather than in house assembly...some thing CKD...where companies import CKD and built it here...similarly TELCO will provide CKD, SSI vendor will build and will be sold to
end customers...they will get cars and not kits

[islero]

I totally believe in Ratan Tata, he is one of my heroes. If there is one person in the world who can do this, he is that person.

[tsreekaranrao]

A letter from TG jan issue

To design a car in a 1Lac range is quite difficult because a basic motorcycle with a 100cc engine costs Rs 33,000: an auto rickshaw costs around Rs 1Lac and a maruti800 is more than Rs2Lac.So how is it ever possible to come up with a car that would suit the needs of the indian consumer within this cost barrier? We cannot go in for a car that is more or less an auto rickshaw on for wheels- a car with no doors and an anaemic engine- that would be a flop. Or a bike on four wheels - a naked car with minimal body panels.
I wonder how Tata is going to come up with their 1Lac car. Somehow they would compromise their pricing at Rs1.5L,add taxes and we will get a Maruti 800 competitor, but one with a diesel perhaps.