[ss11011988]

Allow me to share my 2 cents worth.

I believe the car is heavily bashed for the company's lethargy and stubbornness. It's a no-nonsense car, period and I believe it's meant for people who don't want to spend their time around workshops fixing issues for a few days' fun; on the contrary need a tried and tested formula. In that sense, the car ticks all the right boxes. The mechanicals are Indian market proven, that means the sorted engine + gearbox combos. The rear seat comfort is still, one among the best (in that segment), the boot is cavernous, and everything works exactly as it should be without being overly garish. Yes, it won't hold a candle to the forced induction petrol cars, but then again that's not the intent of the car either. I believe a customer who is buying a Honda City is not looking for traffic light drag races, rather ferry himself and his family members in absolute comfort which is what it does well still. It has sufficient sportiness to keep you engaged and for a good many, that will do just fine. Agree that the competition has moved forward leaps and bounds, but that doesn't make the car any bad, rather it's the company who should come out of their slumber and try to play ball with the current times. As a car, it's still a fill it-shut it-forget it car and a really good one at it, which is what a good bunch of the customers out there wants too. Peace.

[Asish_VK]

Originally Posted by SithDefender

Attachment 2667375

Honda should go back to their roots and bring in cars that evoke their core philosophy of fun cars that do not break the bank. This stubborn refusal to move past their present lethargy is shocking to say the least.

Hyundai brought this already

Jokes apart, yes you are right. Honda was considered sporty, premium and VFM in the 90's and 2000's. Now all the cars in their lineup (India) are considered boring, cheap and overpriced !

[1.2TSI7DSG]

Originally Posted by sam_sant2005

Given a chance, I would buy the GT again.

Which GT!?

I am specifically talking about the delta that a Virtus GT brings over a Polo GT. The Virtus is a few notches below in terms of engineering quality. Right from the door thuds to the steering feel; it does not match a Polo GT. The 1.5 is at a stiff premium above the 1.0 and that opens up a bunch of other cars in the segment. You need to cross 3.5k rpm for the city to get into the element that is close to the Virtus. And feels a lot more mature than Virtus 1.0 for sure.

Other than that, both cars have a good target segment & the pros & cons that people put value on. I put value to a back seat over the drive exileration. After getting the Polo GT at ~9 in 2013, the Virtus 1.5 at ~23 didn't make any sense. The Polo GT is no doubt something that I would buy again.

And I got a Scorpio N to replace my GT TSi and a Honda City for the VFM sedan duties

[sk1983]

I guess new PF2 global platform will gain Honda's past glory and it is a last nail in their coffin I believe. I have to do FC for my 2012 Civic in 2027 and hope Honda will offer proper upgrade for me (7 Seat SUV or Next Gen Bigger Hybrid City).

[cityhustler]

I’m a proud owner of 4th Gen City with 86K on the odo, still going strong.
Honda City was 2 things a decade ago -
1. a status symbol synonymous with “you’ve made it to upper middle class”
2. Chauffeur driven reliable secondary car for family errands

There is a paradigm shift in the car body shape requirement globally, more in India post the ‘Duster’ era - everybody wants to be perceived as boss of the road resulting in the downfall of sedans.

Compared to all C2 sedans in India, City is dated(not counting Ciaz) and the sales chart is a reflection of that. The delay in product refresh cycle - next gen in 2028? combined with with no midlife upgrades to catch up with competition has hit it hard.

Has City lost its core values - I don’t think so. Is it (1) I mentioned above? No longer true - it belongs to Creta now.

[Carpainter]

I think more than body style, it's the value for money quotient that's missing in the current City. Yes the market has an obsession with Suvs, there's no doubt. But see what happens if someone can launch a 2.0L engine within 20L. That will sell even if it's a sedan. Remember what happened when Octavia Vrs was launched for the first time. In SUVs people find intangible value in size, prestige, higher ground clearance, road presence, easy ingress/egress etc. If you want your sedan to be successful these days, you have to offer something special that'll have an aspirational value. Be it better looks, powerful engine, lots of features, good build quality, better driving dynamics etc. all of which VW twins offer better than City. 5th gen City was the least attractive City even when it was launched and now after nearly 5 years without any update, it's aging as well. It's infotainment display is unsuitable even for cars a segment below, it's engine gearbox is 1.5 decade old now. Only reliability factor can only take you so far.

It's not just City but Honda as a whole. It's been discussed in Tbhp numerous times so I don't have much to add here. Only things that bemuse me are like when Honda would sell petrol CRV when the market was asking for diesel and now when the market is splurging on gas guzzlers like petrol Scorpio/Xuv/ Thars etc. it's nowhere to be seen. When they have an internationally successful model like HRV but they build a new car in Elevate that's anything but exciting. Honda don't have a roadmap for India and it's inevitable that customers will leave them today or tomorrow. I think they themselves know that as well.

[07CR]

Originally Posted by BLUEK12

Seems like the humble City is unfairly getting bashed from all corners

I just got my 5th gen City and the timing of this thread is making me feel like I've been sent to defend the city . The City is by no means a bad car. PERIOD. Admittedly the city's i-vtec is no longer the best performer in the segment and the City does not look as attractive as a Virtus or a Slavia.

These are the reasons why the VW group twins have taken over the segment. I am sure that no one in this community will correct me if I said that the chances of your city getting you stranded anywhere is very minute; that the city will comfortably last for more than 10 years with minimum maintenance (which Honda is now marketing with their 10-year extended warranty packages); that the city is the most comfortable sedan in the segment; that the city has a well-tuned steering; that the city will give you a well-rounded, ADAS enabled vehicle at a price of 15ish lakhs; that the city doesn't require you to maintain a FD for unscheduled repairs; that the city will hold its value longer than any of the competition; that the city isn't a slow performer by any means; among many other things.

So, in short, is the city the most exciting choice in the segment? No. Does the city have more pros and less cons than all the competition? Yes. The probability of a City making you regret buying it? Very low.

The thing is performance does matter a lot nowadays. After having driven the Seltos 1.5 turbo, it simply blows away the City VTEC and by a mile. I am sure the VW twins and Verna 1.5 Turbo would offer similar feel.

That and some more equipment is needed like the ventilated seats,EPB with Auto Hold, Electric seats etc., a great HU (Verna's is best) and instrument console, stiffer rear suspension (5th Gen is a boat, even Verna offers a more balanced setup, with VW twins being the best in this regard).

Factor in all of this and I can see why the City is lagging. Your mentioned points are also correct, but I feel the buyer preferences have changed. They value excitement more than the long term reliability of the car.

I too was in your side of things when the 5th gen received a facelift but in between Seltos 1.5 turbo happened and now I have shifted to the other side!

That said, I won't buy a VW yet, but Verna is still a safer choice.

[subhasis]

Recently, I was in the market for a sedan, as SUVs were not an option due to my mother’s knee pain, which makes ingress and egress difficult.

I narrowed my choices to four sedans within my budget: Honda City, Hyundai Verna, Škoda Slavia, and Volkswagen Virtus. I test-drove the Slavia 1.0 Turbo Automatic, City 1.5 NA Manual, Verna 1.5 Turbo, and Virtus 1.5L TSI DSG.
The City stood out as a well-balanced car. Its linear power delivery, soft suspension, and value for money were notable. Maintenance costs seemed lower, and the 10-year extended warranty reflects Honda’s confidence in long-term reliability. Though it lacks some features, ADAS is a plus. The City also felt stable and surefooted on the road.

The Slavia had a plush interior, and the Lava Blue variant was particularly striking. However, I found its power delivery unpredictable, with a delay followed by a surge. It was also the most expensive of the four, and the dealer was unsure about the availability of the 1.5L Turbo manual version.
The Verna excelled in driveability and had a reasonably good Bose sound system. ADAS and lane assist were useful, though somewhat intrusive. Its pricing is between the City and the Slavia, but I wasn’t a fan of its polarizing, edgy design.

The Virtus had a very peppy engine, making it the fastest of the lot. However, the steering felt light and non-responsive, and the interior space seemed narrower than the others.

In the end, I was torn between the City and the Verna. What mattered most to me were a reliable, punchy engine and low maintenance costs. I’m also skeptical about turbo engines due to their complexity and potential long-term ownership costs. After researching, I felt Honda’s i-VTEC NA engine would be a safer, more cost-effective option in the long run.

I chose the Honda City, favoring reliability and long-term ownership costs over outright performance. After-sales service was another factor; while Honda’s service network isn’t as extensive as Hyundai’s, it’s better than Volkswagen’s or Škoda’s. I’m confident the City will offer a comfortable, fuss-free ownership experience.

Though Honda offers a solid product, they should consider introducing more engine options to meet the diverse needs of buyers.

[ashishpotdar]

Long term satisfied Honda customer. Left with no other option but to upgrade to some other brand this year. That is the paradox facing millions of loyal Honda customers.

Honda City (3rd Gen) Manual - 2010 to 2016 - 1,10,000 Kms. No fuss ownership experience. Power of IVtec on highways and frugality in city. Comfort of the backseat was umatched. Only pain was the low height causing painful passage on speed breakers.

Honda BRV CVT - 2016 till Date - 43000 Kms. Again reliable, fuss free ownership. Smooth CVT, Practical 7 seater which has helped us move hundreds of assorted things. Very comfortable for long road trips.

Now want to upgrade and don't see any option within Honda. Toyota Hycross or Hyryder are the only worthy substitutes which have the same balance of reliability, low cost of ownership, frugality. Honda City is the same old wine, Elevate is a smaller, raised Honda City (and doesn't stack up to Korean, German or Jap options).

Also another point, recent experiences with Honda service have been not so great. Old service guys have moved on to other companies, younger lot have less knowledge and are only interested in upselling or recommending high cost repairs. Never had to sit and knock off extra items in a Honda service estimate before but had to do last 2 times at Solitaire Honda, Borivali, Mumbai. Very unpleasant experience.

Honda City Hybrid doesnt cut it because at same price you can get a Hycross GX or multiple other fantastic options (XUV700 AX5 Select AT !!!) or just a bit of stretch gets you Invicto or Hycross Hybrid.

Honda has killed itself with its lethargy. They have a profitable exports business but any downturn on that would mean Honda shutting shop because at current domestic volumes they can't sustain national overheads. Another reason to not go for a Honda now.

Last month was in US, took test drives of Honda CRV, HRV as my son was looking for a car. The new CRV, Accord and Civic are drool worthy. The 1.5 ltr Turbo is their staple engine and a fantastic, smooth hybrid on all cars. Sad, such fine machines will never come to India due to insipid management who squandered away decades of leadership

This is what we are missing !

[subhasis]

Originally Posted by ashishpotdar

Honda has killed itself with its lethargy. They have a profitable exports business but any downturn on that would mean Honda shutting shop because at current domestic volumes they can't sustain national overheads. Another reason to not go for a Honda now.

I think it's too early to assume that Honda is going to pack up and exit India. Various sources report that India is set to become their production hub, and they are working on developing a global platform code-named PF2.
https://www.autocarpro.in/news/bmw-c...of-2024-121714

Yes, they have been somewhat lethargic, but their minimalist design and rock-solid reliability have earned the trust of the Indian consumer base. There’s even a saying that Honda fans love the brand more than its Indian leadership.

On a side note, Honda Cars India's profits for FY23 jumped over 521% to a record ₹1,430 crore.
https://www.financialexpress.com/bus...india/3298130/
https://www.autocarpro.in/news/honda...0-crore-116343
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...-up-521-a.html (Honda Cars India records profit of Rs. 1,430 crore in FY23 | Up by 521%)

So, it's highly unlikely that Honda will shut down in the foreseeable future. Fingers crossed - they need to take positive steps before they lose momentum.

[ron178]

Originally Posted by subhasis

I think it's too early to assume that Honda is going to pack up and exit India.

They have also played it safe and focused on profitability rather than expansion recently. Safer to invest less and be met with limited but secured success than to make a huge one-time investment with big projections and then fall well below targets like with the Brio platform or VW’s India 2.0.

As someone who loves the brand I would love to see their adventurous side, but as someone who wants to see them stay, I can see how placing their bets there could actually end up worse.

[SaiSW]

My 2 cents,

The reason City has fallen behind on the sales charts is because it is a snooze fest compared to the other three sedans in the segment. It has the most reliable powertrain in the segment and the City will always retain more resale value than the Verna or the VAG twins, but priorities of buyers are changing. Younger buyers (<40) already know (atleast to an extent) the nuances of owning a Volkswagen. I personally know several cases from amongst friends and family, who went for the Germans or the Verna despite knowing they will be costlier to maintain, solely because the City has developed a reputation as a car for the elderly gentlemen.

Now, between the Virtus and the Verna, the Virtus coming out as the more popular option is certainly an achievement. The extent of Hyundai aftersales and the relatively better service experience (on average) they provide should have comfortably helped the behemoth push the Verna to the top of the segment and by a good margin.

But the fact that a car, coming from a company with significantly fewer service centers and a reputation for mediocre service experience, was able to pip the Verna to the top means, in my opinion, two things -

1. Hyundai does not enjoy the same level of brand value as VW, this has been reflected from my personal experience of seeing people choose the Virtus over the Verna for a myriad of reasons, one of them being that "VW is a better brand". Now, whether that is justified or not is for an individual to decide.

2. The polarizing looks of the Verna clearly has not gone unseen by the market, and it seems it has received a rather lukewarm response and not anything Hyundai was hoping. This again, has been reflected from my personal experience, of people I know going for the Virtus/Slavia because of the way the Verna looked. I can't help but think that a less radical design could have certainly helped Hyundai now.

P.S. everything I've said above are my opinions and are constructed from my personal experiences. I do not, in any way, claim them to be blanket statements that mirror what the actual cause may be.

[somersault]

Originally Posted by 07CR

The thing is performance does matter a lot nowadays. After having driven the Seltos 1.5 turbo, it simply blows away the City VTEC and by a mile. I am sure the VW twins and Verna 1.5 Turbo would offer similar feel.

This is so correct. When I bought my 4th gen city in 2014, it was kind of the fastest of all available sedans in the same price bracket at that time if compared for 0-100 timing. The extra rear seat comfort was a major plus point. There were of course many shortcomings on the door quality, horn, headlights etc. But the performance sold me the city.

Come today, before purchasing my Kodiaq, I checked Honda and I did not find any offering from them which can be called as the fastest or coming close to the fastest. So size wise and engine wise there is no upgrade available.

[subhasis]

Today, my brother called me while he was driving to the office in his Creta. During our conversation, I asked how he was enjoying the car. He mentioned that while he isn't a car enthusiast, the Creta meets his needs reliably and smoothly. The only issue he mentioned was the frequent gear changes, but other than that, he thinks it's a fantastic car.
Why am I bringing this up? Lately, I’ve noticed people often focus on performance and specifications—not just for cars, but for other gadgets like mobile phones as well. My question to them is: What is the primary purpose for which you're doing all this research? No offense to anyone, but if you're able to extract every bit of value from your device and feel you've reached its limits, then, yes, you might truly need something higher-end to serve your needs better in that dimension.
It saddens me when I see people blindly follow trends without being pragmatic. This is why you see such skewed sales numbers across the board—whether it's for cars like the City, Virtus, Verna, or Slavia; SUVs or sedans; iPhones or Android devices, and so on.