[DRPSREDDY]

Originally Posted by Hayek

Without getting into the merits of this combination, the fact is that it makes no sense whatsoever for Japan to have 6 mass market car makers (Toyota, Subaru, Suzuki, Honda, Nissan and Mitsubishi), when there is increasing investment needed in electrification and competition from the Chinese.

You have forgotten to mention more brands like Mazda, Isuzu, Daihatsu, albeit smaller but significant market among others. That gets us to 9 brands.

[m8002?]

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

You have forgotten to mention more brands like Mazda, Isuzu, Daihatsu, albeit smaller but significant market among others. That gets us to 9 brands.

Daihatsu is owned by Toyota and Isuzu is owned by Mitsubishi.

I think even Mazda was a part of Ford earlier, not sure if its a standalone company now.

[DRPSREDDY]

Originally Posted by m8002?

Daihatsu is owned by Toyota and Isuzu is owned by Mitsubishi.

I think even Mazda was a part of Ford earlier, not sure if its a standalone company now.

Earlier GM owned 20% stake in Isuzu and Ford some 15% in Mazda. Both have exited and Toyota owns upto 5% in both companies. Mitsubishi ownes 8% in Isuzu is now a part of Nissan and then now will be a part of Honda alliance. But both will function as independent companies despite complex ownership structure with individual investors owning majority stakes. Diahatsu is majorly owned by Toyota.

[laser2707]

I really don't know who I should feel sorry for: Honda, Nissan or their customers. This seems like a forced marriage between two incompatible partners.

Japan's powerful Commerce Ministry appears to be forcing it. They should have done their due diligence before letting this happen. Multiple overlapping product lines and markets will lead to severe operational inefficiencies.

Years ago, British Leyland pressured by the UK govt. adopted a similar strategy. They cobbled together an alliance of struggling British marques to keep them afloat. The motley collection had nineteen diverse brands from Jaguar, Daimler to Leyland trucks. In a conglomerate like this it is impossible to position and focus on individual marques. This resulted in most of them either being sold off or going defunct.

I am a great fan of the Japanese auto industry and all my life have owned Japanese automobiles. It would be tragic to see the downfall of these great brands if they can't make the alliance work.

[DRPSREDDY]

HONDA NISSAN MERGER -

ELECTRIC VIKINGS

Listen to his opinion. It is spot on reality.

HONDA NISSAN MERGER - ELECTRIC VIKINGS

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by Hayek

Without getting into the merits of this combination, the fact is that it makes no sense whatsoever for Japan to have 6 mass market car makers....Under such circumstances, how do you justify the presence of 6 Japanese?...So some form of consolidation is going to be necessary to preserve the Japanese auto industry. And I don’t think that can be just through alliances - what is needed is to take costs out and have fewer manufacturers (even if they preserve differentiated brands).

Well, the consolidation is happening as we speak. Guess it is a cyclical thing. Western countries also had scores of car manufacturers before WWII. Though the market was big, smaller companies in USA started to die after 1950s with increased clout of the Big Three. UK had more than a dozen manufacturers after WWII, which had wittled down to two or three now. (not to say, most are foreign owned now). Likewise, the six plus manufacturers in Japan enjoyed the export market run from the 1980s onwards without much competition. A big US market and many small export markets that would only buy Japanese meant these many brands could survive. Now with Chinese companies stronger than ever and increased focus on exports, means Japanese companies are feeling the heat.

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

You have forgotten to mention more brands like Mazda, Isuzu, Daihatsu, albeit smaller but significant market among others. That gets us to 9 brands.

Originally Posted by m8002?

Daihatsu is owned by Toyota and Isuzu is owned by Mitsubishi.

I think even Mazda was a part of Ford earlier, not sure if its a standalone company now.

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

Earlier GM owned 20% stake in Isuzu and Ford some 15% in Mazda. Both have exited and Toyota owns upto 5% in both companies. Mitsubishi ownes 8% in Isuzu is now a part of Nissan and then now will be a part of Honda alliance. But both will function as independent companies despite complex ownership structure with individual investors owning majority stakes. Diahatsu is majorly owned by Toyota.

Guess, now Japanese car manufacturers are in two camps.

Toyotaverse - Suzuki, Isuzu, Mazda and Subaru. (including the subsidaries/sub brands like Lexus, Daihatsu, Hino)

Hondaverse - Nissan, Mitsubishi. (including the subsidaries/sub brands like Acura, Infiniti)

[sharmanova]

Honda, Nissan, and Mitsubishi are officially merging under a single holding company, marking a significant shift in the automotive landscape. Announced via a joint statement from Honda and Nissan, this strategic alliance aims to tackle mounting competition in the global auto market. The merger, set to finalize by August 2026, will make the trio the world’s third-largest automaker, trailing only Volkswagen AG and Toyota.

[Doppelkuplung]

The merger is not by choice. It is an ICU for Nissan. Chinese cars have eaten into most Nissan segments in middle east (atleast). Rent a cars, company fleets, Africa exports have all slipped out of Nissans hands. Only popular model is the new Patrol.

All major dealers in UAE have added Chinese/Asian car dealerships. AlFuttaim who were representing Toyota Lexus Honda Jeep now has BYD, AGMC who had BMW Rolls Royce and Mini now has Geely. AlTayer who had Ford Ferrari and JLR has Vinfast. AlRostamani with Nissan Infiniti has Chery, Smart and Zeeker now.

Smaller dealers like Elite cars who are dealing with Jetour brand (extremely popular now with T2 SUV) are investing on bigger sales and service facility.

Legacy carmakers will have a really tough time ahead if GCC market is any indication.

[BNG-motorhead]

Originally Posted by GTO

This is really going to bring Honda down. Honda & BMW have always thrived on their relatively independent nature and if they partnered with anyone, it was always very specific & very strategic. For a purpose.

This is not as bad as being projected, my thoughts. Maybe Honda wants to venture into small ‘kei’ cars without diluting premium positioning. Nissan also has a fan base and many of their models are very reliable. They do need a service centre experience overhaul which Honda can provide. And Honda also needs the numbers to go up for service to keep the dealers excited.

This may save Honda as well. Plus, it's all talks and nothing concrete so it can go in any direction.

[zeus18]

One of the biggest reasons for Nissan to seek a partner for rescue is their declining sales in the North American market as they do not have hybrids there. Their empower doesn't make a cut in the American market owing to a lot of technical problems. Initially, it was reported that Nissan models like Rouge would get the PHEV system from Mitsubishi.

The first part of this merger when translates into action will see Honda sharing their hybrid tech with Nissan in the USA, similar to how Mazda got access to Toyota hybrids this year and Subaru to follow the suit.

The falling sales in China is a problem to address for both Honda and Nissan, which propelled Honda to work for synergy in terms of EVs.


Also I have a doubt — what will happen to Afeela , a joint venture between Honda and Sony to make EVs?

[GTO]

Asked what makes Nissan Motor Co. a strong business partner, Honda Motor Co. Chief Executive Officer Toshihiro Mibe struggled to find the right words.

“That’s a difficult one,” Mibe, having just announced plans to bring the two firms together under a single holding company, mused earlier this week before a packed room of journalists.

His remark raised a few chuckles, but on a serious note, it spoke to real and present qualms over why Honda would ever agree to such a risky deal with Nissan, and what it could gain by folding the flailing Japanese carmaker into its business.

As if Nissan's baggage wasn't enough, another dead duck in the name of Mitsubishi has been thrown into this merger. I stand by my earlier comments. Honda should walk away from this engagement and only needs to spend a couple of hundred million to get its mojo back (quality, designs, features). For EV technology, partnerships are easy. You don't need to marry ICU patients like Nissan & Mitsubishi who anyway aren't the last word in future tech. Nissan & Mitsubishi will be like parasites on Honda's back...Honda, a company that many love and still has so much potential.

Honda, being mid-sized, “needs to work with another company,” Julie Boote, an automotive analyst at London-based research firm Pelham Smithers Associates, said. “Ideally it would’ve been a healthy and financially sound company, rather than Nissan.”

Ganguli also notes there’s a “lot more overlap than complementary businesses. You’ve got to have overlap to have synergies, but you also need complementary” operations to have competitive advantages.

Source - Bloomberg

[wheelspinner]

Nissan has only one portfolio product on which it's foundation rests, Magnite. Honda has Amaze in compact sedan segment, and City in C-segment which is dying. Sales of both of them are not very impressive, but acceptable. Honda's Elevate failed to capture the market, but has good potential in my personal opinion if they improve the pricing and service.

They can just focus on the compact budget SUV segment maybe by adding I-VTEC to Magnite or, do technology sharing to develop more masculine SUVs like Thar. They may also be able to survive if they can venture out to take bold steps, make an affordable EV or something. They both need to take big, bold decisions to change perception about their brands in Indian buyer's mind. Such a drastic change is hard, if not impossible.

[carhead]

Originally Posted by wheelspinner

Nissan has only one portfolio product on which it's foundation rests, Magnite. Honda has Amaze in compact sedan segment, and City in C-segment which is dying. Sales of both of them are not very impressive, but acceptable. Honda's Elevate failed to capture the market, but has good potential in my personal opinion if they improve the pricing and service.

They can just focus on the compact budget SUV segment maybe by adding I-VTEC to Magnite or, do technology sharing to develop more masculine SUVs like Thar. They may also be able to survive if they can venture out to take bold steps, make an affordable EV or something. They both need to take big, bold decisions to change perception about their brands in Indian buyer's mind. Such a drastic change is hard, if not impossible.

India operations for both Nissan & Honda are too small to significantly impact the global merger decision.

[It's Magic]

Originally Posted by warp_10

From Indian market point, Nissan has been losing footprint and Honda has not released substantially new models.

I don't think Nissan or Honda will achieve anything substantial from this merger. In my opinion, they are not looking in the right direction for potential partners.

For Honda, they still make good cars but miss out on the latest technology and flashy looks that customers seek these days. Additionally, their quality has been suffering recently. They should consider merging with Hyundai or BYD to acquire the latest technology and make their cars more appealing. Ofcourse, they also need to improve their quality control.

For Nissan, they have never fully understood the Indian market, in my opinion. Many of their products made some noise but never really translated into the high sales numbers. They need to partner with a local player like Tata or Mahindra to revamp their product lineup and better understand what people expect from them.

[14000rpm]

Originally Posted by GTO

Honda should walk away from this engagement

The merger is said to be finalized only by Aug 2026. Guess Honda, when sense prevails, will find an exit path.

I reckon Honda is in this soup by force of the government to avoid evaporation of Mitsubishi and Nissan.