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Old 5th January 2025, 18:42   #31
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Re: Tata Motors ends Maruti’s 40-year reign as maker of India’s No.1 car

Might be rather off topic for this thread, all the same - I doubt Tata or anyone else can hold off the Chinese for too long.

I suspect China is gearing up to disrupt many markets. Recently came across the news of China's rapidly growing export prowess -

Tata Motors ends Maruti’s 40-year reign as maker of India’s No.1 car-image_export.jpg

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Old 5th January 2025, 19:19   #32
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Re: Tata Motors ends Maruti’s 40-year reign as maker of India’s No.1 car

All this inspite of their pathetic sales, dealership and service experience. They can be no 1 if they start changing this aspect of ownership which is where Maruti is untouchable.

Their game was safety and if maruti will pick that fight which they have done via Dzire Tata has everything to lose.

On the topic,punch is a fantastic car in this segment. Drove our Prassys punch and it felt like a strong car right from the moment you sat and closed the door. Even the ride quality is excellent and I told prassy the car felt like a baby altroz.
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Old 5th January 2025, 20:23   #33
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Re: Tata Motors ends Maruti’s 40-year reign as maker of India’s No.1 car

Quote:
Originally Posted by theabstractmind View Post
If you consider Baleno, Fronx, Taisor and Glanza as the same car, which they are - nearly, Baleno is the best seller. I think they sell about 35000 units per month of these clones.

Anyways, great to see Tata on the top.
Now thats a very valid point. Baleno & derivates doing 35K a month is amazing.
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Old 5th January 2025, 20:27   #34
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Re: Tata Motors ends Maruti’s 40-year reign as maker of India’s No.1 car

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Originally Posted by Carma2017 View Post
Punch being number 1 is not a very good result for TATA. It is a fact that higher sticker price cars generally generate higher profits compared to lower priced ones. The Nexon was TATA's highest selling car. Having to cede that position to Punch means, within TATA lineup, profitability dips.

Taking nothing away from Punch, let's see the Q4 FY25-26 dispatches, i have a feeling it will drop as TATA dispatched more cars as it wanted the nunero uno position. Of course having very good sales since the refresh set it up for the numero uno position.
Lets also remember the petrol Punch face-lift in late 2025 will definitely further 'lift' the sales of their No1 car. Kudos to Tata. barely 4 years ago Tata was getting dissed for poor sales. Well they've pulled it back. Now need to iron out the edges in post sales.
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Old 5th January 2025, 23:47   #35
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Re: Tata Motors ends Maruti’s 40-year reign as maker of India’s No.1 car

Wow! Tata really did snatch the crown from Maruti. The Punch is really a remarkable car, but I find its engine to be its weak point as it is pretty slow. Otherwise, it offers great safety and is loaded with features.
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Old 6th January 2025, 06:26   #36
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Re: Tata Motors ends Maruti’s 40-year reign as maker of India’s No.1 car

- High seating position
- Compact dimensions
- Safe and sturdy build
- CNG option with optimised boot space
- Better music system

The Punch has everything that a common man needs. The fact that it surpassed Wagon-R in sales means a lot. My dad who is in his late 60s was talking about Punch’s safety! Goes on to say that this car has successfully penetrated Indians mindset to take safety seriously.
I havent driven the Punch myself but looks like masses have accepted Tata’s 1.2L engine.
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Old 6th January 2025, 07:54   #37
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Re: Tata Motors ends Maruti’s 40-year reign as maker of India’s No.1 car

The fact that, even with their perennial issues with service experience and QC, the Punch was able to take the top spot means the customer is willing to overlook niggles in service for the additional safety and reassurance for their precious family that the Tata build quality offers.

I know because I was in a similar dilemma almost 10 years back and went for a Tiago. If the situation with maruti build quality for their lower end models is bad now, trust me when I say it was way worse back then.

Reflecting back on the years, service experience has been average but the powertrain has been very reliable. Major replacements have been electrical - (power window switches - individual and master control panel, AC etc).

I hope with this trust that customers have placed in the hands of Tata, they will finally pull up their sleeves and do something about the service experience and QC from the factory.

Maintain an iron fist and weed out the bad dealerships and keep the rest on a tight leash, just like Maruti does. They certainly have the sales to their advantage when it comes to negotiating power with dealers. It's not like they're a niche brand with 4 digit total yearly sales and need to hold on to whatever dealer will sell their products.

Last edited by SaiSW : 6th January 2025 at 08:06.
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Old 6th January 2025, 08:08   #38
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Re: Tata Motors ends Maruti’s 40-year reign as maker of India’s No.1 car

For Tata to be able to do this with their shoddy salespersons at most dealerships, abysmal service centres, inefficient engines and a woeful AMT gearbox: standing ovation!

My guess is they somehow capitalised on the safety star glory and the honour for Late. Mr. Ratan Tata. Apart from making cars that look nice and have premium interiors

Now imagine how much better their growth story would be if they sort out all above named issues.
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Old 6th January 2025, 09:36   #39
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Re: Tata Motors ends Maruti’s 40-year reign as maker of India’s No.1 car

This may sound like a rant but hating on Tata has become an "in-vogue" thing now, whether it merits that much hate is a different question altogether.

Mahindra - we did have an XUV500 Manual and my cousin had an Auto - n i am well aware of the niggles of that car - somehow manages to escape that level of scrutiny altogether.

It's not that it's unjustified, Tata still has a long way to go in many many departments, but then, this herd mentality of "Whatever anyone else does is great while anything Tata does, needs to be shot down with greatly exaggerated stories of poor ASC and what not"

We as a forum are celebrating Thar / Roxx while mocking Chinese Copy cat cars.

Hypocrisy much?

Swift rattles like a tin can post 30k-40k kms and even the service center guys used to say that this is normal, nothing much can be done, yet we will go ga-ga over the reliability and cost effectiveness of owing a Maruti.

Let me point out the most common issues pointed.

Shoddy salespersons at most dealerships - has anyone been to a Nexa / Arena showroom ever? Those sales people are on a different dose of attitude altogether. I had troubles with a saler guy during my Nexon purchase, however, later, the senior management of the showroom came to my home to apologise while bearing gifts. Not that it was wanted. My Safari purchase was a different experience altogether. About as good as it gets.

Abysmal service centres - Yes, absolutely, but they have improved much compared to what it was even 6 years back. N then, after every service there is a call from Tata Motors inquiring for the rating of service. The waiting area can definitely be much better though.

Inefficient engines and a woeful AMT gearbox - My Nexon Diesel - sold it off at 72k kms - still gave an AFE of 20+ in the city and ~26 on the highway. This is in kolkata where even the main roads are as clogged as bylanes. I have not tried the AMT so i cannot comment on that.

I sold my Nexon after a trouble free 72k kms, the only issue being once a valve in the injector conked off, instead of replacing the injector, the SC asked me to wait and got only the valve procured from Bosch for about ~1200. I think that is good service.

My Safari had an issue of the connected tail-lamp fogging up, although the fog disappeared, yet it was replaced under warranty fuss free.

Yes, there are still many issues with Tata ASC but i do not find much difference when i visit the Honda SC as we own a 17' City VTEC as well. My neighbour next door has a punch while my colleague has an Altroz and it's been a few years now, I do not get so much complaints from them. Yes, the sample set is extremely small but having been with Tata for about 8 years now, after everyone asked me to stay away, it feels like a decision well made.

I/we have owned Tata /Maruti / Mahindra / Ford / VW / Renault in the extended family, there are horror stories with each of them. VW is a different case altogether, so much so that we sold our Vento out of frustation of the service / repair costs.

Yes, this is written like a rant but what i am trying to say is that this forum and even r/CarsIndia has become an echo chamber for dismissing anything good that Tata does while completely/majorly ignoring the ills of other car manufacturers.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 7th January 2025 at 12:22. Reason: Spacing and formatting
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Old 6th January 2025, 10:25   #40
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Re: Tata Motors ends Maruti’s 40-year reign as maker of India’s No.1 car

Quote:
Originally Posted by arjab View Post
Dear Tata Motors,
Can you please put in a refined and punchy naturally aspirated engine in the Altroz? No fancy turbos or anything. Plain and simple well tuned 1.2 litre, 4-pot. And watch Altroz overtake Swift in the B-segment hatchback sales.

Maybe you can talk to Honda once? After all you do share a good relation with them and came close, very close, to producing the Accord & Civic under license from them in the late '80's, only to have your plans scuppered by political powers that be of that era.
Maybe worth a try again?
Best wishes,
I wish! But, that's what this is - wishful thinking.

The only refined and punchy Tata cars we might see will be electric, not ICE. They just don't know how to make one, and seem to lack the motivation or capability to figure it out. Tata Motors petrol engines are easily the worst compared to any other top5 car makers in India (by sales). The other homegrown player, Mahindra, the diesel jeep maker, foresaw the need for good petrol engines, invested in R&D and look at the results. Foreign automakers in India are interested in Mahindra's petrol engines. Tatas started with large volume passenger cars much earlier yet never managed to bring their petrol engines up to speed.

Your Honda suggestion triggered a different thought... the Japanese are losing money on a lot of spare capacity in engine and engine components plants because of declining ICE exports to China. Tata could buy and import a good Japanese engine line with engine design licences cheaply. As long as they also hire a few Japanese engineers to oversee set up and manufacturing at least for a couple of years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
Only maybe a temporary reprieve for Tata Motors from the MSIL dominance. In the topsy turvy sales charts released during the pandemic, Creta topped the list of the Top 20 best selling cars which instantly meant temporary celebrations at HMIL.

Tata has overcome the safety parameters to the delight of its buyers which its competitors MSIL and HMIL are still taking too lightly. This Tata dominance is a writing on the wall for the two carmakers. We have expressways allowing speeds of upto 150 kmph, where quite many drivers go past that speed, with some recalibrating their ECU's. Hence, naturally buyers will yearn for safety of a 5 star car for the well being of their car occupants at such breakneck speeds.

Tata however is still totally deficient in many other departments that buyers look out for, other than safety. Even Tata's second coming could not earn it, it's customer's confidence, and our forum hosts many threads from aggrieved Tata car buyers.

To come of age, the best parameter is resale prices of used cars. Tata cars still lack resale values and quick liquidity for used car sellers.

Hence, Tata has reached this position but needs to gear up its act to dominate and outperform in other departments where MSIL and HMIL excel.
Totally agree. Dzire shows Maruti has learnt the lesson, that the market has enough buyers who prioritise safety. Why not give them the 5Star crash ratings, plus Maruti network, fuel efficiency, service and reliability that brings peace of mind (and hence resale value). Maruti will now replicate this formula across models, taking away Tata Motors main sales pitch.

Tata Motors is going to face a double squeeze. Maruti and Mahindra going after Tata ICE car sales, and MG/Mahindra/BYD/Hyundai going after Tata EV sales. And in both categories, Tata Motors does not look ready to face the onslaught. They may be at/near their peak marketshare.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 7th January 2025 at 12:23. Reason: Formatting in quoted post
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Old 6th January 2025, 10:42   #41
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Re: Tata Motors ends Maruti’s 40-year reign as maker of India’s No.1 car

Great job from Tata! But it also feels like they might have peaked. Their EV business had a smooth sailing so far without much competition, which is about to change now. In terms of overall refinement, reliability, and service, it feels like they are stuck at the same place for the last 2-3 years. Unless they make some significant strides in these aspects, they won't be able scale up in the higher margin categories.
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Old 6th January 2025, 11:12   #42
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Re: Tata Motors ends Maruti’s 40-year reign as maker of India’s No.1 car

This journey of Tata started with Nexon when Tata gave a 5 star rated sub 4 meter SUV at an acceptable price. 2020 Nexon facelift got better looking front that looked more like an SUV. The 5 star ratings of Nexon helped Tata build a good customer base. First Nexon and Nexon facelift in 2020 did not have a lot of tech and were mostly reliable. This helped build a good customer base for Tata where customer could get a safe car and reasonable price.

Maruti tapped into micro SUV space with S-Presso. The response to S-Presso was lukewarm as per my perspective. Tata realized demand for micro SUV and launched Punch in 2021. Punch had mini Harrier look from front and had upright stance that made Punch look more SUV as compared to S-Presso. Initial sale of Punch was not high, but Tata has invested a lot of effort in Punch:

- Updated feature set as years passed.
- Provided more variants for people to choose at different price points as the buyers will have limited budget and not everyone will buy top end variant.
- Variants with sunroof and without sunroof.
- Added Punch CNG with first in class dual CNG cylinders that did not eat up all the boot space.
- Finally we got micro EV SUV in the form of Punch.ev which was decently priced (until MG brought it BaaS and Windsor EV).

I feel that Tata has got complacent in past 1-2 years thinking they are too ahead of competition.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 7th January 2025 at 12:22. Reason: Spacing and formatting
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Old 6th January 2025, 12:34   #43
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Re: Tata Motors ends Maruti’s 40-year reign as maker of India’s No.1 car

Quote:
Originally Posted by bosespeaks View Post
This may sound like a rant but hating on Tata has become an "in-vogue" thing now, whether it merits that much hate is a different question altogether.

It's not that it's unjustified, Tata still has a long way to go in many many departments, but then, this herd mentality of "Whatever anyone else does is great while anything Tata does, needs to be shot down with greatly exaggerated stories of poor ASC and what not"

We as a forum are celebrating Thar / Roxx while mocking Chinese Copy cat cars.

Hypocrisy much?

Swift rattles like a tin can post 30k-40k kms and even the service center guys used to say that this is normal, nothing much can be done, yet we will go ga-ga over the reliability and cost effectiveness of owing a Maruti.

Yes, this is written like a rant but what i am trying to say is that this forum and even r/CarsIndia has become an echo chamber for dismissing anything good that Tata does while completely/majorly ignoring the ills of other car manufacturers.
Absolutely, well put. I own facelift Harrier and without considering any other brands, went for it and now post 10K error and issue free with good ASC experience, I fail to understand why the hate and bashing for this brand alone here. Anyways, that's another topic all together.

For now, this is awesome to see TATA as numbero uno in the market and with good products cant wait to see the petrol Harrier and Safari launched this year.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 7th January 2025 at 12:23. Reason: Formatting quoted post
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Old 6th January 2025, 12:51   #44
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Re: Tata Motors ends Maruti’s 40-year reign as maker of India’s No.1 car

Quote:
Originally Posted by bosespeaks View Post
This may sound like a rant but hating on Tata has become an "in-vogue" thing now, whether it merits that much hate is a different question altogether.
A big +1 to this!

While there is always scope for Tata to improve, Tata bashing has become too common now. I, for one, am a very happy and satisfied Tata customer and have had a had a trouble free ownership of my Tata Safari. I've driven about 17k kms so far and have had multiple enjoyable and trouble free experiences with my family in this beast of a car. Maybe, I am one of the lucky ones, but my Service center experience has also been pleasantly good so far with the car having undergone the first 3 free services.

Last edited by abhii176 : 6th January 2025 at 12:52.
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Old 6th January 2025, 15:25   #45
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Re: Tata Motors ends Maruti’s 40-year reign as maker of India’s No.1 car

Quote:
Originally Posted by bosespeaks View Post
This may sound like a rant but hating on Tata has become an "in-vogue" thing now, whether it merits that much hate is a different question altogether.

It's not that it's unjustified, Tata still has a long way to go in many many departments, but then, this herd mentality of "Whatever anyone else does is great while anything Tata does, needs to be shot down with greatly exaggerated stories of poor ASC and what not"
+1
Absolutely agree with you. Have owned Tata cars for the last 18+ years right from Indica Xeta to Nano, Zest and now Nexon. Never had any issues with service. Rather i would say didn't see the need for a out of turn service requirement if you kept doing the regular services. The only "work" with all my cars was when the battery needed to be changed. other than that absolutely no issues. Just keep doing the regular service and you are fine.

In fact, I have also observed that every Tata car review on every auto website by default has some or the other line which suggests that Tata service is unreliable as one of the cons. Seems like Tata has not done anything right in the last few years.

Last edited by KarthikK : 6th January 2025 at 18:09. Reason: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers. Thanks!
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