[ReventonLover]

I am surprised to see that no one mentioned the Tata Nexon.

When Nexon arrived, I believe it was the first vehicle to have a 5 star NCAP rating. Not to mention that the design language was a radical departure from their previous lineage (this was also the answer that I gave when asked in the Tbhp joining form). It was then that the sub 4m SUV space came out swinging and dented the sedan and premium hatchback market in a big way. Yes, some might argue that Baleno is popular, but then there's nothing else. Jazz is out, i20 is having a 'meh' time, and others are barely on the map. Sedans are dwindling even faster.

Another noteworthy mention, though not exactly a car, is the dual tank design in the Tata vehicles. I am amazed that other manufacturers are not pivoting to this. It saves a lot of space, albeit I'm unaware if existing owners are facing problems due to this (e.g. removal of spare wheel could be cumbersome). Probably patented or something, hence not in mass use. I would love to hear from others if there are any other reasons.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by mrnorcal

One opportunity available for the manufacturers to be a game changer in the mini van segment.

I absolutely agree with you. Infact other than the Chinese EV onslaught and its influence on the market, I don’t see the “game” having been changed as such in the last 7 years. Everyone is just launching “look at me” products and then no one cares about them in a year or two.

We all held our breath before the new Amaze only to see Honda playing it safe, the Kylaqs, Virtus’s (Virtii?), and Kushaqs were supposed to be game changers but instead ended up representing a change in the way VAG India played it’s own game, with build quality going right out the window. Thud? What? Where? Then BMW went and made the fattest ever cars that although beautiful, seemed to just piss on the entire rule book. Even assembled in India Range Rovers seemed like they would be a game changer but who knew they could make them even more unreliable We need Honda to release an Odyssey or Toyota to bring us a GR86 or even Maruti/Tata to give us a new peoples car which would have to be safe if it were a Maruti (6 airbags on the Alto is cool but now we need a facelift and a crash test please), or come with better engines if it were a Tata. Currently it just feels like it’s all a game of cost cutting while still giving the customer more screens and features and lights of all colours and wattages to distract them from the cost cutting almost like how a casino would distract you from the money you would be losing

[Themomomonsterr]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Everyone is just launching “look at me” products and then no one cares about them in a year or two.

Currently it just feels like it’s all a game of cost cutting while still giving the customer more screens and features and lights of all colours and wattages to distract them from the cost cutting almost like how a casino would distract you from the money you would be losing

That's true! It's frustrating how good features which are actually use-able are overlooked to provide gimmicks, because let's be honest, majority of the Indian market does not care about what they can't see.

Originally Posted by Carma2017

By that definition, the 1st gen Creta was the true 4.3m SUV/pseudo SUV segment creater (if we discount Duster) and not the Seltos.

Similarly, India was introduced to performance cars by VW and it's TSIs and GTs etc. The Abarth and N Lines were no match to the VWs

No sir! It's the Ecosport which laid the grounds for Creta (I'm well aware the Ecosport is less than 4m while I make this comment). The OP had already mentioned that he was not going to talk about discontinued cars. Agreed the first gen Creta was an excellent vehicle, but the OP is not wrong in stating that the Seltos was a game changer. The Creta merely added on to what the Eccosport had initiated, whereas the Seltos took the game several notches up by offering a product everyone was piqued by. We own one of the first Seltos sold in Chennai, and the kind of attention it garnered in it's initial days is unmatched. Creta was just another Hyundai, and hence not a game changer, or a segment creator.

Both the Abarth and the N-Line handle and behave markedly better than the VWs. I have been accustomed to all three over the years. I am not biased either, the GT TDI has been the car I've always wanted but couldn't own.

Originally Posted by Cresterk

I don't think any of the watered down Hyundai N-lines ever had a significant effect on the market.

The real game changer when launched was the Polo GT which made hot hatches a thing. Abarth was another one even though it didn't sell much. The N-lines are just a pale imitation.

While it might look like I am defending my choice here, the N-lines actually have a lot of game and handle better than the GTs did. People are just unwilling to give them a decent chance, maybe because the engine doesn't match with the VWs. Agreed the Polo GT is a legend, but that doesn't dilute the significance of the N-Line, the significance of it's existence in such a hostile market.

Originally Posted by Carma2017

when we talk of Indian context, the GTs and TSIs can only be compared with Abarth branded cars. Since the VW performance cars came first, hence i give them preference. The vanilla versions of both FIAT and VW were good looking and mechanically sorted but were not great value, all things considered including service, cost of ownership etc.

There's nothing mechanically different between the GTs and the so called vanillas as far as the the steering and suspension is concerned. The same can't be said for the Abarth, it even came with better brakes. To be frank, the VWs sold for their engines, the Fiats didn't sell due to their lack of features, and poor support post sales. The matter of fact is, the Fiats were better handlers, but the VWs had the better engines and interiors. in any case, none of these discontinued cars are in the purview of the OP's post.

[novice]

Originally Posted by GTO

The biggest game-changers we have seen in recent times are the Mahindra BE 6 & XEV 9E. People won't buy the Mahindra twins because they are EVs; rather, they will be bought despite being EVs.

I couldn't agree more. In fact, I would go a step further and say that Mahindra twins are so good that they might make some folks want to own one even when they don't need one. That's exactly the case with me. I kept telling myself and my family and friends that EVs can't be mainstream until 2030 and I wouldn't buy one. But that opinion of mine changed on Feb 18th when I watched XEV 9E review on Youtube. I immediately logged into Mahindra BEV website and booked a 9E. It was love at first sight with 9E and I am now eagerly awaiting delivery. The fact is I already own three turbo-petrol DCT cars and I don't really need another car. But 9E truly made me desire it.

[Carma2017]

Originally Posted by Themomomonsterr

...

No sir! It's the Ecosport which laid the grounds for Creta (I'm well aware the Ecosport is less than 4m while I make this comment). The OP had already mentioned that he was not going to talk about discontinued cars. .....

Both the Abarth and the N-Line handle and behave markedly better than the VWs. I have been accustomed to all three over the years. I am not biased either, the GT TDI has been the car I've always wanted but couldn't own.
.......

Regarding Ecosport, in my very personal opinion, i agree the Ecosport started the Compact SUV craze in India, in the sub 4m Category. Since, it died off and sales never crossed 6k or so per month at its peak, I do not consider it as a game changers. Sales started with a bang and then died off in a whimper. But it's not there today or it's successors. So, Ecosport does not remain in contention. Same is true for the Duster. Whether we like it or not, sales is the the only real barometer of a good car. If it sells well it's special, else it's not.

What makes Creta 1st gen unique, is it's sales volumes for the price demanded. The Creta offered nothing extraordinary (except for the margins to Hyundai, which believe me is MASSSSSIVE) but did not do anything wrong either. It hit a sweet spot in that segment in a way no Car did till date or even after. Challengers came and withered away or were happy with a distant second position. Even today, the 2nd gen Creta hovers in top 3-5 positions at an even higher price point. Extra Ordinary!!!

I owned a Seltos till very recently and I know it's abilities but the very fact that it lost out to Creta tells me that only Styling can take you so far. Also, my Seltos aged badly but that's not a criteria.

I agree with you about a lot of the points you mentioned about FIAT. But my point was only about VW being first and setting the trend of true performance variants, at a minimum, in terms of power train.

[harikrishnansp]

Originally Posted by Cresterk

I don't think any of the watered down Hyundai N-lines ever had a significant effect on the market.

The real game changer when launched was the Polo GT which made hot hatches a thing. Abarth was another one even though it didn't sell much. The N-lines are just a pale imitation.

The Duster and Ford Ecosport was another game changer that carved out its own niche in the form of compact SUVs.

Agree that the N lines are not comparable to the GT or Abarths.

But, Hyundai did not need to launch an N line of the I20 or even the Creta (if it ain't broke don't fix it). Maybe the I20 needed it because the Baleno was just running away with the sales but the Creta definitely did not...! They chose to do that experiment with the Indian market, which, coming from a manufacturer consistently in the top 3 is commendable (looking at you Maruti).

[manofinfinity]

Game changers cars in recent times:
1. Thar Roxx:10 years ago nobody would have imagined that we could get a product of this type in 15-20L Fantastic product pricing and placement by Mahiandra.
2. Innova Hycross Hybrid: Will become the highest-selling hybrid car in the country and will remain the highest-selling hybrid car in the country for a long time.
3. Mg Windsor: A fantastic all-rounder EV in 15L, who would have thought?
4. Mahiandra XEV 9E/BE 6 E: Truly aspirational products by an Indian manufacturer, they are 10 times ahead of any EV currently in the market in terms of tech, performance, ride and handling and of course look smashing.
5. Skoda Kylaq: No-nonsense German car for the masses.

[beemer5499]

Originally Posted by novice

I immediately logged into Mahindra BEV website and booked a 9E. It was love at first sight with 9E and I am now eagerly awaiting delivery. The fact is I already own three turbo-petrol DCT cars and I don't really need another car. But 9E truly made me desire it.

The Mahindra BEVs are game changers according to me as well. The 9E as a overall package and the BE6 as a driver’s car with a unique design inside out.

In fact, I wasn’t sure about getting an EV but was waiting for XUV 700 facelift or was thinking of getting a Thar Roxx but 9E changed my mind and I am waiting to get mine this week.

Off topic: Superb has always been my first love and I really wanted to get Superb or Kodiaq sportsline in the steel grey colour but unfortunately I didn’t have enough budget for them nor the heart to pay for their hefty fuel bills as my daily driver.

I wish to know how would you compare 9E with superb and kodiaq in terms of driving pleasure, comfort, ride quality, interior space, handling, interior quality though the Czechs are decades ahead and also acceleration? I really love how the DSG shifts with the 2.0 TSI engine. The 320Nm of torque feels like 400Nm with the DSG literally.

[narayans80]

MG Windsor
BYD Seal
Toyota Hycross
Maruti Ertiga

[novice]

Originally Posted by beemer5499

I wish to know how would you compare 9E with superb and Kodiaq in terms of driving pleasure, comfort, ride quality, interior space, handling, interior quality though the Czechs are decades ahead and also acceleration? I really love how the DSG shifts with the 2.0 TSI engine. The 320Nm of torque feels like 400Nm with the DSG literally.

I know it is the wrong thread but posting here since you asked. Please note my impressions are based on few short test drives of 9E. So, might not be accurate.

Driving pleasure and Handling: 9E > Kodiaq > Superb. Kodiaq and 9E are quite close but 9E manages to edge out Kodiaq as a better overall package, at least for city driving. Haven’t driven 9E on highway. 9E’s suspension has a fine balance between handling and ride comfort. It feels nimble and effortless and beats Kodiaq hands down in acceleration (I drove till 130kmph). 9E masks it's size and wraps around the driver surprisingly well. Superb’s suspension is too soft and has lot of vertical movement that affects its handling. It is also the longest among the three and FWD doesn’t help either. Superb with a DCC might handle better.

Ride and Comfort: Superb > 9E > Kodiaq. All have comfy seats and good ergonomics. Superb is a Limousine with a soft suspension but you sit low compared to the other two. 9E rides well too but loses out in Space. Kodiaq provides flat ride but it’s DCC equipped suspension feels hard and crashy on bad roads. 9E’s cabin is super silent. Skoda skimped a bit on NVH. Skodas let fair bit of engine noise (I don’t complain on this one though), road and wind noise inside the cabin. Also, I can always feel the vibrations from the AC compressor and fans on the pedals. 9E feels far more refined thanks to it's Electric drive.

Interior space: Superb > Kodiaq > 9E. I feel Kodiaq has little more rear legroom than 9E.

Interior quality: Kodiaq > Superb > 9E. Both Skodas have similar quality but I am not a fan of Superb's light beige interiors. 9E’s interior quality (material selection) is clearly a step below the Skodas. Its white interior with Olive inserts feels cheap compared to the pure leather on Skodas. I would prefer Cognac or all back interiors. I hope Mahindra honchos realize that White interior doesn’t equate to premium. It’s material selection that determines premium. But 9E’s overall interior quality is acceptable for the price. However, 9E appears to be well put together and built solid. Some things like AC vents don’t feel fragile as compared to Skodas.

Acceleration: 9E > Kodiaq = Superb

BTW, DQ381 DSG that comes with Kodiaq 2.0 TSI engine can feel frustratingly slow at city speeds but gets better as RPM and Speeds go up. It’s better on the Octavia and Superb but nothing like 1.8 TSI with DQ200 on the older Superbs and Octavias.

Overall, I think 9E would be all the car one would need if 400 to 500 kms of electric range meets one's need. I enjoyed test drives of 9E too much. It's a fabulous car as an overall package.

[beemer5499]

Originally Posted by novice

Driving pleasure and Handling: 9E > Kodiaq > Superb.

Ride and Comfort: Superb > 9E > Kodiaq.

Interior space: Superb > Kodiaq > 9E.

Interior quality: Kodiaq > Superb > 9E.

Acceleration: 9E > Kodiaq = Superb

Overall, I think 9E would be all the car one would need if 400 to 500 kms of electric range meets one's need. I enjoyed test drives of 9E too much. It's a fabulous car as an overall package.

Thanks for the comparison. I do drive A4 with the same engine and gearbox but felt its tuned better compared to the Skoda’s! I am really looking forward to getting my 9E but man Kodiaq is such an amazing car as well. You’re lucky you’ll get to drive both!

Also, do you think 9E’s boot space is comparable to Kodiaq and superb since both of these cars are pretty much boot space champs along with say something like a Fortuner with the third row up?

[novice]

Originally Posted by beemer5499

Also, do you think 9E’s boot space is comparable to Kodiaq and superb since both of these cars are pretty much boot space champs along with say something like a Fortuner with the third row up?

All three have similar boot space but Kodiaq and 9E's usable space is much less than Superb's once parcel is put up. In fact, 9E loses more space with parcel tray.