[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by TheStoryweaver

This decision either is a paper show or going to be intervened soon by refineries/ auto manufacturers.

Blending doesn’t really affect refiners. The providers of ethanol - the distilleries and sugar lobby, will be rubbing their hands with glee. Government earns at both ends - lesser forex spent to buy crude, more taxes collected due to higher sale volumes resulting from lower fuel efficiency and ever increasing road tax collections from the inevitable new car sales. Car manufacturers will also love this, they are looking at making money through more frequent breakdowns and repairs as well as quicker obsolescence of existing vehicles. It is only we the customer, the end user, the common man, who gets screwed at every step.

[Flaneur]

Originally Posted by @ppy.tbhp

[center][b]The Ethanol Blending Illusion – My Experience as an E20 Car Owner in India

Could it be that your new car had the required run-in, hence running smoother? Possibly nothing to do with E20?

[@ppy.tbhp]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

There is no separate E20 branding anymore because all petrol is now E20. It is the default spec. All this has been discussed in detail in the E20 petrol related threads.

Hello Shreyans_Jain, from my experience with E20 fuel, I did get chances to fill up with it when it was available, and I’ll never forget those moments. The fuel attendants and even the pump manager at the COCO station told me it was E20, and they were spot on. The fuel dispenser was labelled E20, The fuel was red in color, which immediately set it apart from everything else, and it came from a separate dispenser—I even found out it was stored in a different underground tank. It was hard to miss, and that distinctive red color gave me the confidence that I was putting the right fuel into my BSVI Phase 2 car. The difference was obvious too. My car’s engine was noticeably quieter, there were fewer vibrations, and I could even smell the difference in the exhaust fumes. It wasn’t just a slight difference—it was significant enough for me to think, "Okay, this is definitely the real E20 blend." It felt like I was fueling up with something designed specifically for my car, and everything about the experience just clicked.

Ever since then, I’ve been asking about E20 availability whenever I stop by the COCO pump near my house. Each time, the attendants and the pump manager tell me that it hasn't come back yet. They still suggest I use E10 or Speed—which, I get, makes sense for older cars. But here's where it gets tricky for me - It’s hard to believe that E20 is now being used by default, even though the COCO station where I refuel keeps offering E10. The attendants and pump manager tell me E10 is what older vehicles need to run smoothly without issues.

So, I keep wondering—if the blend at the pump is now E20 by default, why am I not noticing the same improvements in performance, like I did when the red-colored fuel was clearly E20? It's just hard for me to buy into that idea when I haven’t seen those same indicators, and the people at the pump are sticking to their story that it’s E10. I’m hoping E20 will return soon, and I’ll get another chance to experience those performance boosts in my BSVI phase 2 car. But for now, I’ll keep asking and waiting to see when it truly comes back for good.

[anb]

The sugar and ethanol industries will gain the most from this decision. I wonder whether anyone in these ministries owns a family business that produces ethanol.

[@ppy.tbhp]

Originally Posted by Flaneur

Could it be that your new car had the required run-in, hence running smoother? Possibly nothing to do with E20?

Hi Flaneur, my car's run-in period was already completed well before August-September 2024. I bought it in February. The improvements I noticed—like reduced engine noise, smoother performance, and even the smell of the exhaust—really started when I was using E20. The E20 fuel was red in color, came from a separate dispenser clearly labeled E20, and the staff at the COCO pump confirmed it was E20, stored in a separate underground tank. That E20 fuel was only available around August-September 2024 at the BPCL COCO pump near my house. It had its own dispenser and label, clearly different from regular E10 petrol. But since then, they’ve relabeled that same dispenser to “Speed” petrol instead of "E20", and now I only have two options—regular E10 or Speed petrol at the COCO pump.

If the fuel currently being sold is actually E20, just with a different label or color, I would expect the pump attendants or manager to say that when I ask. But every time I do, they clearly tell me it’s E10, and that E20 is not available. And I can genuinely feel the difference. There’s more engine noise and vibration now with E10, and the exhaust smells more like what I associate with E10. It really feels like I’m back to running on E10 again, and that smoother, quieter experience I had with E20 is missing.

[sukarsan]

Originally Posted by @ppy.tbhp

The Ethanol Blending Illusion – My Experience as an E20 Car Owner in India

That’s two full years, and we still don’t have E20 fuel available across the country.

Originally Posted by @ppy.tbhp

But for now, I’ll keep asking and waiting to see when it truly comes back for good.

I work on engine testing. We are getting close E20 since Jan as commercial fuel. The officially status across india is 'upto E20', but since Jan it has always been close to E20 and this is the case across India.
This will change dynamically based on the sugar stocks. If there is a crisis(like it happened in Dec 2023) in sugar stocks, this blend can potentially go down.

[FrozeninTime]

Automobile manufacturer will prefer flex fuel E 85 over
E 30 fuel engines as there is already sizable market in South America and sourcing parts will be easier and cheaper. Also Sugar Mills are lobbying for 100 percent ethanol fuel. So all in all E 85 or E 100 fuel will be rolled in next 5 years
coinciding with rollout BS 7 norms.

P.S:
Such drastic changes will lead to collapse of automobile manufacturing in India in next decade as cost of upgrading will lead to smaller volume manufacturers leaving country all together.

[@ppy.tbhp]

Hello sukarsan, thanks a lot for sharing this — really clears up a bunch of doubts around the fuel blends available today at fuel stations in India. It's good to know that now it's just "up to E20" across the board, and not like that phase around Aug–Sept 2024 when E10 and E20 were actually being sold separately with different colored fuels and separate dispenser nozzles at the pumps.

Back then, I remember this one instance at the COCO fuel station — there was an older guy with a 2015 model petrol car who specifically asked for the E10 nozzle, and right behind him was me with a newer car insisting on E20. It just made things so much simpler — no confusion, and both cars got what suited them best without risking any engine issues. That kind of clear differentiation at the fuel station really made sense. Honestly, I hope we can get to a place where we continue matching the right fuel to the right engines long-term. Especially with how much this whole thing depends on sugar stocks, it feels like a tricky balance to maintain. Anyway, appreciate you putting this out there — super helpful!

[jalex77]

Originally Posted by abhijet.sen

Govt is fleecing money from Petrol users. Agree that they need to pay for Oil bond issue from the UPA era

Oil bonds? The Oil bond burden (including interest) was around ₹3.6 lakh crores. Central Govt’s Fuel Revenue (2014–2022):is around ₹20 lakh crores if I recall correctly, which means that the government has earned more than 5 times the total oil bond liability.

[AnkitShroff]

This is utterly stupid and appears to be driven by the self-interest of a certain person involved in this decision (as covered by many others in this thread).

I have always maintained that if the government is so determined to reduce the oil import, they should be incentivizing strong hybrids/ plug-in hybrids to start with. It has been the case that people in many developed countries have bought plug-ins for the subsidy, but use gasoline, however the difference in the price of electricity and petrol is much lower (further amplified by the higher spending power) prompting them to continue usage of gasoline for the ease.

Furthermore, any increase in the ethanol content should be accompanied by a reduced price, and availability of lower ethanol content petrol at the existing price for cars that are not E-30 friendly.

[TheStoryweaver]

Originally Posted by sukarsan

I work on engine testing. We are getting close E20 since Jan as commercial fuel. The officially status across india is 'upto E20', but since Jan it has always been close to E20 and this is the case across India.
This will change dynamically based on the sugar stocks. If there is a crisis(like it happened in Dec 2023) in sugar stocks, this blend can potentially go down.

Originally Posted by FrozeninTime

Automobile manufacturer will prefer flex fuel E 85 over
E 30 fuel engines as there is already sizable market in South America and sourcing parts will be easier and cheaper. Also Sugar Mills are lobbying for 100 percent ethanol fuel. So all in all E 85 or E 100 fuel will be rolled in next 5 years
coinciding with rollout BS 7 norms.

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

the distilleries and sugar lobby, will be rubbing their hands with glee. Car manufacturers will also love this, they are looking at making money through more frequent breakdowns and repairs as well as quicker obsolescence of existing vehicles.

I decided to do some research and found a few reports on how sustaining the ethanol blending levels is not an easy task. As mentioned by one member, ethanol blending went down as the crop yields were not as required.

Similar instances were reported in a report published in 2024. Link -https://www.orfonline.org/expert-speak/ethanol-blended-petrol-for-energy-security-india-s-self-goal.

India has become a net importer of corn (another important element of ethanol, also in a bid to shift from sugar as the only source of ethanol) to fulfill the demands of blending with fuel. Citing these elements, sustaining a 20% blend is a big task, and shifting upwards to 30% will be a significant challenge. The report also cites that since the government fixes prices for sugar and certain crops, the buyout price is higher than the market price.

I also decided to read the Niti Aayog report. The government had a target to achieve 20% blending by 2025 and to have E20 tuned engines by April 2025. If manufacturers push E20 engines now, tuning them very frequently to E30 doesn't seem financially viable at this point.

The Niti Aayog recommended quite good points which are present in report as to how government should implement this.

In conclusion, I think it's hard to implement this in a short time frame, citing multiple elements at play.It will be noteworthy how this pans out in coming few years.

[gopi_rm]

Originally Posted by Gansan

It is a perfectly good move, if they implement it properly. Replacing 30% of our total imported petroleum needs with locally made renewable stuff is no small feat. That money is going to circulate only within our economy, even if our pump prices are not reduced. Probably pump prices are not going up further because of this reason too.

Yes sir. It is a perfectly good move on paper. Let's discuss the reality on ground.

• As per govt. report, India has achieved 100% E20 already. Does it mean all the fuel pumps across the country are dispensing only E20 Petrol?
  
• If so, wouldn't it affect all the vehicles (including two wheelers) which are in millions on road from pre-E20 regulation? The effects are regular breakdowns due to component damages, less fuel efficiency leading to more fuel consumption compared to E0/E5/E10
  
• Now, coming to E30 fuel, wouldn't it affect all the vehicles from pre-E30 regulation which would have the same effects as before?
  
• If both E20 and E10/E5 fuels are sold in parallel in the pumps, are there any clean indication on the pumps or nozzles mentioning the ethanol grade as it is done in rest of the world?
  
• Since the ethanol blended fuel is anyway less expensive to produce, why the price is not reduced for those fuels as it is done in rest of the world? You are saying that the extra money is circulated only with in our economy but it will be the case only if that extra money go the pockets of business or common people. But here that extra money is pocketed only by the govt.

Here is the link to official govt report "ROADMAP FOR ETHANOL BLENDING IN INDIA 2020-25" prepared by NITI Aayog and Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Gas in 2021 after consulting all the relevant parties including SIAM.

Let me quote some snippets from the same report:
























This how the E5 and E10 fuels are sold in Germany in parallel with clear marking (Super is E5 and Super E10 is E10) and reduced price for E10 even in non-brand check pumps.

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by Gansan

It is a perfectly good move, if they implement it properly.

Originally Posted by gopi_rm

Yes sir. It is a perfectly good move on paper. Let's discuss the reality on ground.

That is why I mentioned proper implementation. I feel they should provide unblended petrol at a higher cost to those who want it for their vehicles instead of forcing everyone.

My bike is 25 years old with 2 lakh km on the odo, it doesn't even know what ethanol blend is. The manual does not recommend it. But it shows no ill effect, barring a drop in FE to 62 kmpl. It is lower than before but I am not sure if it is due to the blend or because of the age of the engine.

My 2009 model car manual recommends E5, but it too is running without any issues so far. I am yet to see any ill effect specific to ethanol blending. I am a guy who tops up the fuel tank of both once a month on a specific date.

[antz.bin]

It is a carefully thought out strategy by Hon. Minister Nitin Gadkari ji to achieve the following:

1. Reduce dependence on foreign oil (Forex++)
2. Reduce older, more polluting vehicles, to be replaced by new vehicles (Industry++)
3. Reduce air pollution (Health++)
4. Promote Electrification. (Environment++)
5. Improve highway safety and reduce road deaths. (Safety++)

How #1 is being achieved is easy.
By constantly increasing the Ethanol content in Petrol, cars and bikes will get ruined and will need to be replaced sooner.
Older Petrol vehicles will no longer pollute because they cannot be used at all, not just in NCR, all over the country!

The only way to avoid this is to not buy petrol vehicles but then there are hardly any Diesels available too. CNG engines are also bi-fuel petrols. Hybrids are also petrol. What are you left with?

Yup! The darling of the govt.! EVs!

If you don't want injector issues on your Petrols, stay away.
If you don't want DPF issues on your Diesels, stay away.
If you want some power and a useable boot in your car, stay away from CNG.

But if you have an EV, it will lose range rapidly at high expressway speeds. So you will drive slower with low overspeeding incidents despite 230-280-300-500 hp cars.

Slower cars > lesser high speed incidents > lesser number of road deaths.

If only I had 2 more reasons, this guy would have been the real Thala!

Disclaimer: All of the above is speculation. Maybe some sarcasm went in there unintentionally. I am not happy with this development. I also have a <2 yr old E20 compliant petrol vehicle. But this seems to be the direction the govt. seems to be taking.

[Needforspeed004]

I think one important point is that government wants farms to move away for crops like wheat and rice to crops which have other commercials importance and usage. This will help government increase the open market purchase of these crops and will reduce the dependence of government buying.

The current production of some of non commercial crops(majorly wheat) is almost 1.4x the consumption hence this could solve multiple problems in the long run.