Elantra & Tucson - phased out.

AMATMO · 21st October 2007, 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondadude

Its not just that. Hyundai has succeeded in VFM segment in US (Accord/Camry etc). In India, Accord/Camry etc are premium cars. Hyundai hasn't succeeded in premium markets in US yet.

Hyundai as a brand, is seen as VFM brand in India. Irrespective of price/positioning of Embera in Indian market, success is going to be very hard for Hyundai in Premium segment. Over time when the purchase power in India increases and Accord/Camry segment becomes not-so-premium, Hyundai would be very successful in there.

The Japanese cars faced the same issue in US and hence they introduced Lexus/Infinity/Acura. These brands were created and positioned as premium brands because Toyota/Nissan/Honda were perceived as cheap/efficient/reliable cars.

I won't be surprised if Hyundai goes the same route eventually.

Exactly you are right word to word
in US sonata and accord/camry logically satisfies the same social strata that verna,fiesta and honda city satisfies here

so if people in india can choose verna over honda city in india the same way people in US can choose embera over accord

AMATMO · 21st October 2007, 13:29

coming back to the topic i feel the new elantra and the sante fe can create waves in indian market
and since its a CBU i feel the can sell tucson along with sante fe
hyundai should bare the low sales and let the tucson sell

nitrous · 21st October 2007, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by amatmo

since its a CBU i feel the can sell tucson along

It would never make sense to pay all those duties for a "Made in Korea" CBU car.

Hyundai.Lover · 21st October 2007, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeep

If Accent was priced 1 lakh more than esteem, it is definitely worth more than that.
Esteem is a tin sheet with a superb engine - however that's not the only thing that people look for in a car. It gives an unsafe feel esp at higher speeds.
I have seen people bashing Hyundai blindly - I think that's the effect of having been to the US once where Hyundai doesn't command respect as much as it's euro or Jap counterparts?

Esteem is really a tin sheet. Infact maruti's each and every car is a tin sheet. They reduces their quality so much and most of the indians don't know about it and don't even bother to know what's there in the car.

My friend bought Baleno and he blindly curse Hyundai for Accents. Mine is Accent 1.6L. One day, he told me thrice that Hyundai is $#%$# and they make #$%$ cars. I asked to compare his Baleno with mine by any means.

Started with the body... Baleno thin body. even a slight bump makes its body mold inside. lol mine was good hardcore if compared. then we compared engines... baleno 1.6L vs accent 1.6L again mine had a upper hand. then looks ofcourse accent. then handling... again accent. Now comes the real test of power. My fav. place... Expressway, Noida. Really Really poor gearbox of Maruti Baleno yucks!! Baleno Clean Bold and out.. now he bought Verna Petrol haha and his brother bought Sonata Emberra. haha

Maruti degrades their cars like anything, thats why they initiate their margine in their spare parts and after sale services.

Take an Example of Swift. Again Thin Sheets used. Poor Interior quality and Doors rattling sound. What the $%$# is that? after spending 5 lakh bucks on swift. We are getting this?

SX4 again thin sheets poor fittings, lame rear view, poor plastic quality, poor bumper quality, my friend's sx4 is giving problems with the dashboard not opening up. over drive oct. edition an angry man having sx4's door lock in his hands and told overdrive that his door handle is off for the 3rd time haha. they provided 1.6L dohc engine. but where is the performance? poor gearbox quality and all that things... they are able to provide airbags and bla bla in it. whats the use of 16" alloys if they are providing 3rd class tyres i.e JK Tyres. Duh!! really funny and people being less aware of it are booking it blindly, not a good ride quality in poor roads, big turning radius. Duh!! People are buying it because it is a Maruti lol.

Now talking of the Americans, Do you think they have turbo chargers and supercharges in their cars and they know better about the cars?

Dude!! They buy Honda with their eyes closed. When Honda came to America initially. They considered Honda as the worst company. What's happening to Ford and GM there? Hell lot of problems in their Ford and GM Cars?

I had read in a lot of forums and youtube comments about the Sonata Emberra taking over Camry. lol it is just the brand name and nothing more than that dude.

Sonata Embera is way ahead of the Accord in U.S in terms of performance and maintainance and FE. Why more and more people are buying honda? because it is a honda. they don't even know what's hyundai did in sonata's engine to make it more refine. they simply bash sonata because it is a hyundai. Now Americans started accepting the fact about Sonata. Tiburon. SantaFE.

Many of them bought New Elantra and claiming that they really beat the hell out of civics and corollas in drags or street races.

Hyundai.Lover · 21st October 2007, 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMATMO

coming back to the topic i feel the new elantra and the sante fe can create waves in indian market
and since its a CBU i feel the can sell tucson along with sante fe
hyundai should bare the low sales and let the tucson sell

Waves? New Elantra is a hell of the car if compared with Civic and Corolla. Awesome Braking sytems, space but dunno about AGCS in New Elantra, which is a drastic handling step for sonata.

SantaFE, Power SUV 4X4, 2.2L VGT Damn and 2.7L V6 in petrol variant. I had seen in many forums and youtube comments, SantaFE taking over LandRover.... lol

Tiburons over Civics lol. NOS Civic vs Tiburon (with basic mods in its engine). Awesome.

Genesis likely to take over bmws and mercs, A car with front engine and rear wheel. Sweet. 4.6L V8 24 valve 20" alloys 300+ hp Price tag: just above 30k USD. Duh!! it is a biggie man. They introduced their concept car straight away for merc and bmws. Dingo!! let us see what will happen.

Tucson = Over priced car because of less tax relaxation.

Why Verna VGT is costly? because engines are imported from korea, Dude you are running an engine from korea not indian degraded engines. But issues with Getz CRDi with interiors and not providing ABS and airbags.

jayguar · 21st October 2007, 16:37

Its just not the poor pricing of the cars but its also the Hyundai aftersales service charges. I used to own a Santro. Now I own NHC and the service charges are less than the Santro.

Hyundai.Lover · 21st October 2007, 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayguar

Its just not the poor pricing of the cars but its also the Hyundai aftersales service charges. I used to own a Santro. Now I own NHC and the service charges are less than the Santro.

It was few years back. Last month My accent's service costs me just 2500 Rs. including a backlight switch lol

and my santro's server costs me just 1780 Rs

Honda's service wont cost you below 1780 Rs.

Hyundai also reduced the price of their spare parts too.

androdev · 22nd October 2007, 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondadude

Its not just that. Hyundai has succeeded in VFM segment in US (Accord/Camry etc). In India, Accord/Camry etc are premium cars. Hyundai hasn't succeeded in premium markets in US yet.

Hyundai as a brand, is seen as VFM brand in India. Irrespective of price/positioning of Embera in Indian market, success is going to be very hard for Hyundai in Premium segment. Over time when the purchase power in India increases and Accord/Camry segment becomes not-so-premium, Hyundai would be very successful in there.

The Japanese cars faced the same issue in US and hence they introduced Lexus/Infinity/Acura. These brands were created and positioned as premium brands because Toyota/Nissan/Honda were perceived as cheap/efficient/reliable cars.

I won't be surprised if Hyundai goes the same route eventually.

Very good observation. If you are successful in VFM segment, you automatically lose out in premium segments. It is very unlikely for the same brand to do well in VFM and premium segments. Bentley buyers are unlikely to buy Phaeton - even though everyone knows that Phaeton is essentially a VFM Bentley.

rangaraj · 22nd October 2007, 11:41

Hondadude.. Good point.. It looks like south of 10L, Hyundai has a story to tell.. Anything upwards of that, it literally has to steal customers from Honda/Toyota/Skoda by offering a comprehensive value for money - especially in their upfront pricing. Everyone agrees that they A.S.S and spare costs are much better.. This will not happen if they continue to import stuff. They have to take a call and enter the D-segment by local assembly/manufacture to really make the difference in price substantial for people to seriously look at an alternative to the other "premium" D-segment car manufacturers..

rangaraj · 29th October 2007, 12:55

Hyundai plans to phase out Elantra
29 Oct, 2007, 0415 hrs IST,Chanchal Pal Chauhan, TNN

NEW DELHI: After it withdrew its imported sports utility vehicle (SUV) Terracan, Hyundai Motors India (HMIL) is planning to phase out its premium sedan Elantra from Indian road due to dwindling sales. HMIL’s Elantra, which never made it to the top in terms of sales since its launch around five year ago, has sold only three cars in September, two in August and nine in July. While its cumulative sales tally for the six months of this fiscal stands at 173 units, the company sold only 14 units in the last three months. These cars were all produced in the last fiscal year as Hyundai has not manufactured a single Elantra this year.

An e-mail query to HMIL went unanswered. According to the Society of Indian Automobile Manufacturers (SIAM), HMIL has totally stopped the production of Elantra from April and had produced 1,683 units of Elantra in the last fiscal year. Elantra had always been struggling to find its place amidst General Motor’s Optra, Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic and Skoda Auto’s Octavia which have been posting impressive sales in India.

Last year, Hyundai withdrew its SUV Terracan from the market and its existing SUV, Tucson, is also facing hard times. The company sold only 16 Tucsons last month and is likely to replace it with a new SUV, Santa Fe, sometime in 2008. Poor sales had also prompted Hyundai to withdraw the diesel and sports variants of its mid-size sedan, Accent. It now produces only the petrol GLE variant of the car for the Indian market.

For Hyundai, its compact hatchback Santro, the second largest selling car in India with a 13% market share, remains the top grosser. To complement the Santro, the company is launching a new small car, code named Pa, which will hit the market next month. The company also plans to bring some cheer in the premium sedan segment with a new car in place of the Elantra. It will be showcased in the upcoming Auto Expo in January next year.

thefreak · 29th October 2007, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyundai.Lover

Sonata Embera is way ahead of the Accord in U.S in terms of performance and maintainance and FE.

Agreed with more or less everything save this. The new Accord is ahead of the Sonata Emberra in everything. If you are comparing with the outgoing model then perhaps your observations are right.

The problem with the Elantra was the thirty year old styling. The new Elantra has the ability to create waves if it is not priced against the Civics and the Corollas. It has to be lower. Probably sub 10 lakhs. Hyundai just does not have the aspirational value attached to it. If they price the Elantra at 11 lakhs then several people will go to the Civic or the Corolla because it costs only one lakh more and gets you that image...

shatrughna · 29th October 2007, 17:04

Note from Mod: This post was simply unreadable. Kindly reformat it into proper sentences and paragraphs.

shatrughna · 29th October 2007, 17:44

I am no Hyundai lover or Honda basher nor Maruti freak or Tata fan( except Safari ) but then during my last 13 years of fiddling with cars and trying to lay hands on anything that drinks fuel and moves has invariably been constrained by just one factor- vitamin 'M' and yes- that makes me a VFM seeker and ultimately each time I put my money -its either Maruti or Tata and of course slanted H.

It started with M800 ( used - dinky model) which had to be changed after marriage as it had no ac( not that I got a marriage gift) and lady love needed some pampering and then it was those days that Tata was making right noises and patriotism was also at a high note on my mind and the Esteem was yet a dream ( beyond economical means) and hence found Indica a good choice - .
Those days Cielos and Astra were too costly for and Matiz- no because of bad salesperson at the dealers place .

But Indica turned out to be a mistake - junked it asap ( non V2) and then went shopping from Maruti( zen/800) to Hyundai ( Santro) and Matiz too ( little choice). What did we get then being value seekers ( on loan of course - @14.75 % after bargaining -no payback was offered then ).

We bought costliest of the pack - Wagon R- not that we found it very good car or best among the lot as I had liked both Santro and Matiz better than Wagon R. We ( family too was involved!) bought for simple reason - the salesman/ buying experience. The salesman of Wagon R was the best among all the others( in fact others sounded and behaved like bunch of jokers in comparison to the guys we met at Maruti dealership).

So though I rate myself as value seeker but within a budget its not the percieved value of the brand or model alone, it is a lot many other things also that matter. Then its another story why then we dumped wagon R for an Indica V2 , after using it for almost 30K plus in 18 months. Indica was very frugal and fuel efficient and I didnt have to visit dealer at all. Everything was done for me at my home( I had enough info on cars, specs, dealers and deals by then).

I was smitten by Siena / Petra, Honda city, Baleno and had heard of Accent CRDi too and that time CRDi , I thought it was no VFM for the price. Test drove all of them and bought Accent CRDi - despite being slightly low on budget- because car was great , economical and this time was lucky to get attention of a salesman at the dealers place who saw a potential customer in me perhaps and spent a few minutes. As far as the experience with salesman was concerned- Maruti dealer was still the best - much better than anyone.

Why not Honda city? Because they behaved as if I was an unwelcome guest to reach them just about at the close of business hours and no one would like to attend me as it would take at least an hour plus. If they dont care for me why should I care for them- apart from having a severely under powered car and hello they didnt have a CVT for test drive - only USP they have in the range. And for your info, they still have not offered me a TD despite a few visits and many calls ( may be I am just plain unlucky ) of course, they offered a TD for Civic AT which I refused. I cant consider buying a City CVT based on the TD of Civic AT.

Another news, Fiat closed shop, Matiz closed shop ( in area where I stay) so decision to buy a Hyundai or a Tata or a Maruti was not bad( just lucky).

Next - I have disposed my CRDi and V2 also. hunting game began ( not bargain hunting ) but the best pick based on use. Hyundai - now that I was a customer showed some respect( just a lil bit), Honda dealer as usual offered tea coffee water etc. but no TD ( @@) , hey guys there when do you understand I went there for a car not just a cup of tea- regrest no CVT available - but really clean surrounding , good ambience etc.

Hyundai - showroom ok but cars look so dirty in their yard- wish they dont show me those beauties and beasts lying in dust - waiting for their suitors to come and pick them up- ah waiting for the D day when they get a wash and worshipped before being handed over.

Tata - uff- so many models- thanks to Fiat added on to the fleet and recent hectic activities to draw customers with so many launches and variants- they are surely doing a very good business- cars all around and then a few more than they can handle and still trickling in- for repairs , servicing - uff I hate to wait for soemone to even speak to for anythign more than a minute after reaching the reception. I came back, better to confirm appointment on phone and re-check- I had gone there to check some VFM deals, exchange offers and among others Safari 4*4 ( VTT) , they too didnt have 4*4!! so no TD - no cheque. Thank you!

God knows what would be the policy to add another dealer in a region or at least improve facilities at a dealers based on the number of vehicles in the hinterland. Same is true for Hyundai dealer too.

Octavia- 1.9 TD Rider AT- very good experience with the dealer, very friendly and co-operative but here too much of info is also a spoilsport. I know that Riders will either be sold soon at revised prices or may be phased out plus too less power at too much price and whopping service costs ( voted out).

Verna- VGT - SX- ABS - great car, TD thrice- ha ha .. took a revenge for no TD of Santro way back in 2000, and no TD of CRDi and still waiting for TD of Sonata CRDI AT - they dont have- and till then I too no buy!Verna VGT booked.

Yes I also wanted to share- here that still Maruti dealers among them - excelled far more-and they are still much better in dealing with masses- common man- no complains with Honda and Skodas though.

No wonder JD surveys are favouring them, they are selling more than anyone- still better approach, better sales staff, may not be the best cars, TD available for all models- including Swift D, SX4 ZXi despite waiting list. And guess what I didnt book a new Fiat car but from their true value shop -I picked up a Palio ( 2002 -1.2 ELX- I fancied their interiors that time and all four power windows!!- I am so old fashioned). Thats what I would call salesmanship- thats what sells a car- (no I wont buy new Palio- coz I am not sure about after sales and would like to put so much money on a new Palio ).

IMHO - what makes a car sale is a fair combination of
1) a good machine,
2) good buying experience with the salespersons,
3) availability ( model in stock & TD) - though a bit of waiting period is not a turn off ( relatively and a lot subjective depending upon the urgency).
4)good after sales service and
thats why I would like to call myself a value seeker.

Its not plain cost of car, cost of service/ spares and/or FE/ features/space- more car per car concept.

Dislaimer* This is strictly my opinion so no offence meant to any make or model or their lovers.

Sorry @mods for the unreadable post earlier.

21st October 2007, 13:29	#62
AMATMO Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bangalore\GOA Posts: 1,456 Thanked: 7 Times	coming back to the topic i feel the new elantra and the sante fe can create waves in indian market and since its a CBU i feel the can sell tucson along with sante fe hyundai should bare the low sales and let the tucson sell
	() Thanks

21st October 2007, 16:37	#66
jayguar BHPian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 300 Thanked: 218 Times	Poor Pricing Its just not the poor pricing of the cars but its also the Hyundai aftersales service charges. I used to own a Santro. Now I own NHC and the service charges are less than the Santro.
	() Thanks

22nd October 2007, 11:41	#69
rangaraj BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 570 Thanked: 10 Times	Hondadude.. Good point.. It looks like south of 10L, Hyundai has a story to tell.. Anything upwards of that, it literally has to steal customers from Honda/Toyota/Skoda by offering a comprehensive value for money - especially in their upfront pricing. Everyone agrees that they A.S.S and spare costs are much better.. This will not happen if they continue to import stuff. They have to take a call and enter the D-segment by local assembly/manufacture to really make the difference in price substantial for people to seriously look at an alternative to the other "premium" D-segment car manufacturers..
	() Thanks

29th October 2007, 12:55	#70
rangaraj BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 570 Thanked: 10 Times	Today's economic times.. Hyundai plans to phase out Elantra 29 Oct, 2007, 0415 hrs IST,Chanchal Pal Chauhan, TNN NEW DELHI: After it withdrew its imported sports utility vehicle (SUV) Terracan, Hyundai Motors India (HMIL) is planning to phase out its premium sedan Elantra from Indian road due to dwindling sales. HMIL’s Elantra, which never made it to the top in terms of sales since its launch around five year ago, has sold only three cars in September, two in August and nine in July. While its cumulative sales tally for the six months of this fiscal stands at 173 units, the company sold only 14 units in the last three months. These cars were all produced in the last fiscal year as Hyundai has not manufactured a single Elantra this year. An e-mail query to HMIL went unanswered. According to the Society of Indian Automobile Manufacturers (SIAM), HMIL has totally stopped the production of Elantra from April and had produced 1,683 units of Elantra in the last fiscal year. Elantra had always been struggling to find its place amidst General Motor’s Optra, Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic and Skoda Auto’s Octavia which have been posting impressive sales in India. Last year, Hyundai withdrew its SUV Terracan from the market and its existing SUV, Tucson, is also facing hard times. The company sold only 16 Tucsons last month and is likely to replace it with a new SUV, Santa Fe, sometime in 2008. Poor sales had also prompted Hyundai to withdraw the diesel and sports variants of its mid-size sedan, Accent. It now produces only the petrol GLE variant of the car for the Indian market. For Hyundai, its compact hatchback Santro, the second largest selling car in India with a 13% market share, remains the top grosser. To complement the Santro, the company is launching a new small car, code named Pa, which will hit the market next month. The company also plans to bring some cheer in the premium sedan segment with a new car in place of the Elantra. It will be showcased in the upcoming Auto Expo in January next year.
	() Thanks

29th October 2007, 17:04	#72
shatrughna BHPian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Mumbai Posts: 894 Thanked: 68 Times	Note from Mod: This post was simply unreadable. Kindly reformat it into proper sentences and paragraphs. Last edited by Samurai : 29th October 2007 at 17:12. Reason: unreadable post
	() Thanks

29th October 2007, 17:44	#73
shatrughna BHPian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Mumbai Posts: 894 Thanked: 68 Times	I am no Hyundai lover or Honda basher nor Maruti freak or Tata fan( except Safari ) but then during my last 13 years of fiddling with cars and trying to lay hands on anything that drinks fuel and moves has invariably been constrained by just one factor- vitamin 'M' and yes- that makes me a VFM seeker and ultimately each time I put my money -its either Maruti or Tata and of course slanted H. It started with M800 ( used - dinky model) which had to be changed after marriage as it had no ac( not that I got a marriage gift) and lady love needed some pampering and then it was those days that Tata was making right noises and patriotism was also at a high note on my mind and the Esteem was yet a dream ( beyond economical means) and hence found Indica a good choice - . Those days Cielos and Astra were too costly for and Matiz- no because of bad salesperson at the dealers place . But Indica turned out to be a mistake - junked it asap ( non V2) and then went shopping from Maruti( zen/800) to Hyundai ( Santro) and Matiz too ( little choice). What did we get then being value seekers ( on loan of course - @14.75 % after bargaining -no payback was offered then ). We bought costliest of the pack - Wagon R- not that we found it very good car or best among the lot as I had liked both Santro and Matiz better than Wagon R. We ( family too was involved!) bought for simple reason - the salesman/ buying experience. The salesman of Wagon R was the best among all the others( in fact others sounded and behaved like bunch of jokers in comparison to the guys we met at Maruti dealership). So though I rate myself as value seeker but within a budget its not the percieved value of the brand or model alone, it is a lot many other things also that matter. Then its another story why then we dumped wagon R for an Indica V2 , after using it for almost 30K plus in 18 months. Indica was very frugal and fuel efficient and I didnt have to visit dealer at all. Everything was done for me at my home( I had enough info on cars, specs, dealers and deals by then). I was smitten by Siena / Petra, Honda city, Baleno and had heard of Accent CRDi too and that time CRDi , I thought it was no VFM for the price. Test drove all of them and bought Accent CRDi - despite being slightly low on budget- because car was great , economical and this time was lucky to get attention of a salesman at the dealers place who saw a potential customer in me perhaps and spent a few minutes. As far as the experience with salesman was concerned- Maruti dealer was still the best - much better than anyone. Why not Honda city? Because they behaved as if I was an unwelcome guest to reach them just about at the close of business hours and no one would like to attend me as it would take at least an hour plus. If they dont care for me why should I care for them- apart from having a severely under powered car and hello they didnt have a CVT for test drive - only USP they have in the range. And for your info, they still have not offered me a TD despite a few visits and many calls ( may be I am just plain unlucky ) of course, they offered a TD for Civic AT which I refused. I cant consider buying a City CVT based on the TD of Civic AT. Another news, Fiat closed shop, Matiz closed shop ( in area where I stay) so decision to buy a Hyundai or a Tata or a Maruti was not bad( just lucky). Next - I have disposed my CRDi and V2 also. hunting game began ( not bargain hunting ) but the best pick based on use. Hyundai - now that I was a customer showed some respect( just a lil bit), Honda dealer as usual offered tea coffee water etc. but no TD ( @@) , hey guys there when do you understand I went there for a car not just a cup of tea- regrest no CVT available - but really clean surrounding , good ambience etc. Hyundai - showroom ok but cars look so dirty in their yard- wish they dont show me those beauties and beasts lying in dust - waiting for their suitors to come and pick them up- ah waiting for the D day when they get a wash and worshipped before being handed over. Tata - uff- so many models- thanks to Fiat added on to the fleet and recent hectic activities to draw customers with so many launches and variants- they are surely doing a very good business- cars all around and then a few more than they can handle and still trickling in- for repairs , servicing - uff I hate to wait for soemone to even speak to for anythign more than a minute after reaching the reception. I came back, better to confirm appointment on phone and re-check- I had gone there to check some VFM deals, exchange offers and among others Safari 44 ( VTT) , they too didnt have 44!! so no TD - no cheque. Thank you! God knows what would be the policy to add another dealer in a region or at least improve facilities at a dealers based on the number of vehicles in the hinterland. Same is true for Hyundai dealer too. Octavia- 1.9 TD Rider AT- very good experience with the dealer, very friendly and co-operative but here too much of info is also a spoilsport. I know that Riders will either be sold soon at revised prices or may be phased out plus too less power at too much price and whopping service costs ( voted out). Verna- VGT - SX- ABS - great car, TD thrice- ha ha .. took a revenge for no TD of Santro way back in 2000, and no TD of CRDi and still waiting for TD of Sonata CRDI AT - they dont have- and till then I too no buy!Verna VGT booked. Yes I also wanted to share- here that still Maruti dealers among them - excelled far more-and they are still much better in dealing with masses- common man- no complains with Honda and Skodas though. No wonder JD surveys are favouring them, they are selling more than anyone- still better approach, better sales staff, may not be the best cars, TD available for all models- including Swift D, SX4 ZXi despite waiting list. And guess what I didnt book a new Fiat car but from their true value shop -I picked up a Palio ( 2002 -1.2 ELX- I fancied their interiors that time and all four power windows!!- I am so old fashioned). Thats what I would call salesmanship- thats what sells a car- (no I wont buy new Palio- coz I am not sure about after sales and would like to put so much money on a new Palio ). IMHO - what makes a car sale is a fair combination of 1) a good machine, 2) good buying experience with the salespersons, 3) availability ( model in stock & TD) - though a bit of waiting period is not a turn off ( relatively and a lot subjective depending upon the urgency). 4)good after sales service and thats why I would like to call myself a value seeker. Its not plain cost of car, cost of service/ spares and/or FE/ features/space- more car per car concept. Dislaimer* This is strictly my opinion so no offence meant to any make or model or their lovers. Sorry @mods for the unreadable post earlier.
	() Thanks