[supremeBaleno]

I know that the Civic sells at a premium (which Honda car does not, atleast in India), but is it as crappy a car as it is being made out to be ?
I, for one, love the looks of the car, especially in black.

If scraping at speedbreakers is an issue, I am sure it is something common to a lot of cars here and inherently is an issue with wrong design of the speed-breakers than the car itself.

And regarding more Civics being available in used-car market, as compared to Cedia, well, that would not be surprising given the fact that for every Cedia sold, atleast a hundred Civics get sold. How many Palios would you see in the used car market, when compared to say a M800/Alto/WagonR/Santro ?

[suman]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

If scraping at speedbreakers is an issue, I am sure it is something common to a lot of cars here and inherently is an issue with wrong design of the speed-breakers than the car itself.

SB, shouldn't that be taken into account when launching a car for the Indian roads? And when you say "common to a lot of cars here", which other cars are you referring to, the Baleno ?

Not to mention, of course, that if this happened with any of the European cars, the car would be crucified on the spot for being cheap, unwieldy etc etc, at least on our forum!

Double standards eh?

[diabloo]

. Double standard against Civic. When many have low GC and scrap the speed breakers, why single out Civic? Is this the only drawback spotted by people in Civic & hence blown out of proportion?

Originally Posted by suman

Double standards eh?

[suman]

Originally Posted by diabloo

When many have low GC and scrap the speed breakers, why single out Civic?

, Et tu?! Many as in which......?

[arunkumar_rec]

Civic looks great. 170mm ground clearance for a big sedan like Civic is a really good ground clearance. If GC is a real problem, then SUVs are the answer.

[suman]

Arunkumar, I don't think anyone's disputing the GC per se or even the fact that 170 is good GC. The issue here is that the car scrapes speedbreakers which other cars with lower GC don't

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by suman

SB, shouldn't that be taken into account when launching a car for the Indian roads?

Yes, I agree that standards in use in the target market should be taken into account. But what about countries like ours where there is no standardisation at all and where each municipality/panchayat has its own design for speedbreakers in its area ? I would not blame the manufacturer here.

Originally Posted by suman

And when you say "common to a lot of cars here", which other cars are you referring to, the Baleno ?

Well, it depends on the speed-breaker itself and I am sure it is not just the Baleno that will scrape on them, but their peers too, under similar conditions of load. On my way to and from work, I go over many speed-breakers and scrape none. But I know certain breakers in town where I will scrape my car IF I go over it at speed or when car is loaded. And I am sure other cars will too.

My whole thing is, "Will someone sell off a car just because it scrapes stupidly designed speedbreakers?" I know many people here on the forum who plonk lakhs of rupees on brand new cars, and then do numerous trips to the service centre to sort out various issues (minor and major) with the car, which in today's times would not be seen in other cars even after the warranty has expired. If they hold on to such poor-quality products, I find it tough to believe that a Civic owner will sell it off for no fault of the car itself.

[csentil]

I see in some posts very vehement comments against the Civic. Everyone is free to agree or disagree with a car looks/performance. But please don't trash something if you don't know the facts.

Every car has its pros and cons. Period. There is no ideal car in the world. You might not agree to someone's decision, but that doesn't mean he's wrong and you are right or vice-versa.

I loved the Lancer when it came out, but that does not mean I have to buy a product from Mitsubushi which is a generation old. (Please sell the Evo in India !!) I know many people who have been bitten by Mitsubushi's A.S.S and costs. Once bitten, twice shy.

Same with Skoda; great looks, built like a tank. However they can't rename the new Octavia as a Laura and take it to an entirely different segment.

Honda, has been selling a car for 9 lakhs plus without any safety features. No airbags, no ABS. They were forced to change it after everyone from Aveo, Fiesta to SX4 came out with the goods.

Look at the quality and fit and finish in a Swift and then look at a Getz. Getz spoiled their chances by pricing themselves too high.

People are not inherently stupid, whatever we may think. :-) No one is going to back a losing horse.

The Japanese have fine tuned the art of customer satisfaction to a large extent. Look at the leading brands in the world. Look at any customer satisfaction index on automobiles. Look at the largest car market in the world, the US. I am not saying they are God, but they must have done something good to be there at the top.

Yes Honda should have looked at the GC. 170mm is not low. the long wheelbase is the issue. But its not the be all and end all of any car.

Looks are also important. Don't tell me that almost no one likes Ash or Deepika Padukone !! :-)

[suman]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

My whole thing is, "Will someone sell off a car just because it scrapes stupidly designed speedbreakers?" I know many people here on the forum who plonk lakhs of rupees on brand new cars, and then do numerous trips to the service centre to sort out various issues (minor and major) with the car, which in today's times would not be seen in other cars even after the warranty has expired. If they hold on to such poor-quality products, I find it tough to believe that a Civic owner will sell it off for no fault of the car itself.

SB, all this is fine but you still haven't answered my basic question - when you mentioned a "lot of cars" scraping speedbreakers, which cars were you referring to?

Why go off track about who's bought what cars & what faults they possess, we are discussing scraping speedbreakers here....at least I am

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by csentil

Honda, has been selling a car for 9 lakhs plus without any safety features. No airbags, no ABS. They were forced to change it after everyone from Aveo, Fiesta to SX4 came out with the goods.

No big deal, actually, because the lower variants still dont have ABS and airbags (even as options), if I am right. And they sell at 7.5L+. So nothing great on Honda's part.

But, I think the competition is also no better on this front (Does SX4 Vxi give ABS and airbags atleast as options ? I dont know.).

Originally Posted by suman

SB, all this is fine but you still haven't answered my basic question - when you mentioned a "lot of cars" scraping speedbreakers, which cars were you referring to?

I did answer that when I said that it would depend on the size of the speedbreaker. I don't think we have cars (not talking SUVs) here that can clear speedbreakers of any size.

Originally Posted by suman

Why go off track about who's bought what cars & what faults they possess, we are discussing scraping speedbreakers here....

We are not discussing speedbreakers per se, but discussing whether people will sell off a car just because it scrapes not-to-spec speedbreakers. And if I am right, you went OT first by bringing the Baleno into a Civic thread.

[suman]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

If scraping at speedbreakers is an issue, I am sure it is something common to a lot of cars here

Well, above is what you said, it seemed like you felt that a lot of cars scrape speedbreakers. Now, you are qualifying the "size" of the speedbreakers by mentioning -

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

I don't think we have cars (not talking SUVs) here that can clear speedbreakers of any size.

I think I've made my point.

Oh, by the way, the Baleno was brought in because its the only other one that I've read about on the forum which "bottoms out" on speedbreakers. Hence the assumption that it was one of the ones you included in "a lot of cars".

[supremeBaleno]

suman, if a car scrapes speedbreakers in a country where the breakers are uniform and as per specs, I would say it is a car's fault. But if it is at a place where they are not uniform and not-to-spec, I do not see any reason to blame the car. That is the point I tried to make. And it is not about the Civic or the Baleno, applies to any car.

The official specs for breakers (from another thread) are as below :
Height of 12.5 Cms, width of 200 cms and radius of 4 M.

Do you think a Civic or a Baleno would scrape a breaker made to the above spec ? If it does, it is the car manufacturer's fault.

I guess the following comment in another thread makes my point clear. If a Jeep can scrape, well...

Originally Posted by GTO

Many a time, the underbody scraping is less about your sagging suspension and more about the lack of standards in speed breaker design. Example, there is one particular speedbreaker on the exit to worli seaface. Fully laden, even the underbody of my Jeep will scrape against it.

Originally Posted by suman

Oh, by the way, the Baleno was brought in because its the only other one that I've read about on the forum which "bottoms out" on speedbreakers. Hence the assumption that it was one of the ones you included in "a lot of cars".

Hmm. So the Baleno was the only one you read about. OK, let me bring the others to your attention :

M800- http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/527190-post1.html

Indica, City, Lancer - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/50667-post2.html

Palio - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/50682-post4.html

Zen : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/50705-post7.html

Optra : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/51056-post31.html

Accent : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/103570-post34.html

NHC : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/172385-post5.html

OHC : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/80262-post1.html

Tallboy WagonR : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/50720-post8.html

Even the Amby : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/50691-post5.html

Accord : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/81429-post19.html

So, can we now move on to the Civic and why people are supposedly buying and then dropping it like hot potatoes ?

[alabjarus]

Its unfair to single out Civic just b'cos of GC. Its an excellent package over all and that explains its runaway success.

GC issue is not unique to Civic. My NHC VTEC scrapes Bangalore speed breakers with 5 up. My Accent used to do the same. My wife's Esteem does it on full load.

Does this not point to the fundamental flaw in the spead breaker design than the GC of few cars. The answer to the GC issue lies in the PWD putting together some standards on speed breaker designs and strictly implementing it.

Until then the only answer is SUV's.

[suman]

SB, we can now move on because as I'd expected, you have diverted the discussion completely. My understanding of the Civic's issue is that it scrapes "normal" speedbreakers as well. Which is why there is such a lengthy discussion going on about it.

Perhaps your understanding is different.

Which is why you have spent an hour raking up anything & everything on the forum about ground clearance. About other cars scraping ab"normal" speedbreakers. I'm sure you have also dug up the ones which mention the Baleno bottoming out over normal ones but I don't hold it against you for not posting those

And I'm out of here buddy cos as usual this is becoming a useless mine is bigger than yours.........

[Ferrari]

Originally Posted by jayguar

I thought 9 to 10 kpl is pretty decent in the city. My Civic gives me around 9 and 9.5 kpl.

I get 11 in Bangalore Traffic with 100% AC. The lowest I have seen is about 9 (possibly due to bad petrol)