Thomas Friedman says "India, Tax the hell out of your cars"

[highwayblaze]

Originally Posted by DileepKS

I have a better/easier idea than Tom FriedBeans! BAN the CARS!! Imagine! no cars in the whole geographical area of India!!

ROFL_LMAO

I guess you should write back to friedbeans about implementing this in the US.

[jaganm]

At one level, I disagree with Mr Friedman. It is implicit in human nature to try and improve your situation. how are people in India going to accept giving up the convenience of personal transport when their counterparts in developed countries, especially the US, continue on their fuel wasting ways? Also, the fuel consumption in India and China is more efficient, in that we have smaller vehicles, more number of people per vehicle and we also travel smaller distances.

That said, he does have some valid points. The current rate of consumption is unsustainable and is going to spell doom for the world. We need to do something to stop the runaway growth. Both the government and us as citizens can do our bit. The government must have a broad policy to promote public transport, research alternative energy sources and adjust the price of fuel so that wasteful consumption is reduced. As responsible citizens, we should take steps to save fuel. Walk or use a two wheeler for short distances, carpool, use public or company provided transport where possible. All of this means certain sacrifices will be made to our quality of life , so it requires a certain level of realization and education for this to happen. Even here, the government can do its part by promoting energy conservation more aggressively.

[typeOnegative]

Originally Posted by DileepKS

When even their cars with the flashing lights on top can't find a way in the mess that is.

Oh please. They will buy helicopters a la Messrs Ambani. Those will have flashing lights as well and the folks on team-airlines.com will start complaining about increased congestion.

[DileepKS]

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

Oh please. They will buy helicopters a la Messrs Ambani. Those will have flashing lights as well and the folks on team-airlines.com will start complaining about increased congestion.

I would hope the CommieCityCochin won't have anough money to buy helos, so they might try improve the roads. Thrikakara Panchayath, OTOH, will have money for helos, so they might buy.

[Torqy]

Does anybody have this FRIED STUFF's phone number or email id?
I want to educate the moron a little bit.

-- Torqy

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by 1100D

Regarding public transport scene in India, there is another aspect to it which I am made aware of by the female acquaintances. That it generally gets self degrading to use those considering the number of perverts amongst the population who use those. What is that going to take, to be solved? Infrastructure, or education regarding respect for every other individual. As long as this grouse remains, the need for personal means of transportation will not be entirely eliminated.

I get what you're saying, but believe me, it took me a minute of concentration to dig through the Wren & Martinisms.

[Mpower]

Originally Posted by 1100D

Regarding public transport scene in India, there is another aspect to it which I am made aware of by the female acquaintances. That it generally gets self degrading to use those considering the number of perverts amongst the population who use those. What is that going to take, to be solved? Infrastructure, or education regarding respect for every other individual. As long as this grouse remains, the need for personal means of transportation will not be entirely eliminated.

Age old problem that plagues Indian society. In Mumbai suburban trains they have ladies only compartments. In B;lore BMTC buses, the front half is for ladies and the rear for men. Dunno about other measures...maybe we can have a bouncer cum conductor.

[BaCkSeAtDrIVeR]

Here is the cost/time comparison using public transport for me and my 5 + 1 kid family.

A. Public transport.
For a short 2 KM trip by bus.
Home to nearest busstop - 10 Rs each by 2 outos or 10 minutes walk.

Originating bus stop to destination busstop - 3 x 5 = 15 Rs + 5 minutes on un-congested roads.

Destination busstop to destination point (you think buses stop every where??) - Rs. 10/- or another 20 minutes walk.

Total costs is 20 + 15 + 20 = Rs. 55; time is 15 minutes, excluding waiting time for buses and autos.

For a 10 KM trip:-

Same as above, bus fares are 5 Rs. per head - 25 per trip; time is 20 minutes. Total costs Rs. 105. Time is 30 minutes, excluding waiting time.

For a 25 KM trip - the running time for city buses is one hours and 30 minutes, in Cochin. (d***N the costs).

For a 250 KM trip by train:-

Pay 40 bucks each for two autos, suffer the jerks (on the road and the ones on the driver seat); alternatives to hire a taxi (rs. 150) or same costs as in the 2 km trip above) to reach the railway station; and pay at least Rs. 211 per head (III tier a/c | chair car) train fare alone is 1055. Total time (from home to destination point is at least 6 hours. Add expenses at the destination town (Rly station to destination point). Minimum costs are in range of 1500/-

B. By my wagonR

With a FE of 13 KMPL ( 25% ac, <1250 KM, only first service done), Trips 1 and 2 cost me just the fuel - approx Rs. 47 per liter. That about 35 Rs. for the 2 km trip; and 70 for the second. I will be spending just 5 and 10 minutes respectively as journey time; and I can choose less congested routes than what will be used by public transport.

For the 3rd trip - it is just Rs. 903, and I reach my destination point in 5 hours or so; and no troubles of taking auto/taxi and running over platforms, etc.. at railway station. (Hope you get the point).

Before you start flaming me about the "invisible costs" of interest, depreciation, taxes, tolls, wear and tear, etc. - just consider the amount of time saved and convenience o being able to step out of your house, get into a car, and having to get out only in front of the relative/friend/twerp's house.

[BaCkSeAtDrIVeR]

Duh!!!

I forgot to mention the rates of ROAD taxes.

I paid approx Rs. 24,000/- (IIRC) life time tax for my WagonR. I hope to use it for 6 years (why not? I may sell it earlier, I may not sell it ever after that, and even ifI sell it in 2017, the buyer may use it longer - but just assume I have paid tax for a "life time" of 10 years).

Here is what my family paid, one passenger paid - Rs. 4,800/-.


Now, here is what I will be paying if I use PUBLIC TRANSPORT:-

Rs. 600 per head, per passenger, per year.

MVD, Department

That is a mere 8 years tax. The difference is very, very marginal. The govt. keeps the money if I move out of the state after 5 years, or so. And Public transport is exempted from most tolls, Already, private transport pays taxes COMPARABLE to public transport - if not more.

[Centro-P]

How about we get back to bullock carts and horse carts :P. That would reduce the pollution and hopefully the number of accidents too.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Centro-P

How about we get back to bullock carts and horse carts :P. That would reduce the pollution and hopefully the number of accidents too.

Not really, the busiest city in the world at the end of 19th century was London. The main transport within the city was horse cart. The roads were all full of horse dung, smell from horse dung, flies infesting it, deceases and what not. The statisticians of those days predicted that by 1930 there will 30ft tall horse dung piles along all major roads of London. Then of-course automobiles became popular in the following decades and London was saved from becoming horse dung city.

[govigov]

I agree with all of the above, it is very comfortable, as well as advantageous to use my own car, i can start from my car park all the way to my friend's hose without stepping out of the car within minutes. If i use the public transport, i have to walk till the bus stop, wait for the bus, pay the charges, sit/stand next to a burly stinking man, wait for atleast a minute or so on all the bus stops enroute, people pushing me to get in and out of the bus at each stop, get down at the stop, take a rick, get my boes jarred to its max, get down at the friend's place, fight with the rick driver for his exhorbitant charges, and reach the destination a full half an hour late than i would have reached if used my car. Why go through all the hazzle?

As it is we are paying huge amount of taxes to the govt just to use our cars, when we are doing that, why doesnt the govt provide us with quality roads?

I completely agree with backseatdriver, i will prefer my car any day over public transport.

[phamilyman]

I have a 20 km commute, across (Delhi) MB road, Mahipalpur, down to the airport and a wee bit beyond.
By bike, 40 mins, by car, 1.5 hours.
Gimme half a chance and I will prefer to go sleeping in a cab/bus

That's my life being wasted daily, in commuting.

[DileepKS]

Jokes apart, the peeve is the fundamental attitude. You can get people more into public transportation by making it attractive and available compared to personal transportation. Instead, people are talking about the negative way, ie making cars unattractive and unavailable. That too without considering the former at all.

When I lived in Fremont, CA, I ALWAYS took transit to go to San Francisco, but drove to San Jose. Reason being, BART trains run to downtown San Francisco and MUNI bus/trolley/light rail will take you anywhere you want to go from the BART station. San Jose is not so conveniently connected (And is closer, with good freeway connection), so I drove.

We must make people WANT to use the public transit. Exhorbitant taxation is NOT the way to do it.

[zenx]

Ownership being discouraged isnt it at all - more important to discourage usage in congested areas:
* the congestion itself is a huge deterrent, and better public transport (as happens with some workplaces) will encourage ppl to switch
* congestion charge in CBDs
* more limited access "arteries" - tolled, of course
* dedicated bus lanes, and a good grid of buses. My wife recently started taking buses, and its really not that bad. Takes as much time as a car, and maybe 30% more than on a bike.
* no-traffic zones in the city 'cores', have a single fee, electric bus service for hop on-off commuting in that part of the city.

The car is still a useful tool for suburbia (that in itself is a separate town planning problem), and intercity travel. 2-5 kms, even encourage bikes (bumsonthesaddle.com)

Its not really that black or white.