Which are the cars the manufacturers RUINED by RE-DESIGN?

m3_07 · 1st December 2007, 08:15

Sirs,

I am a great fan of Safari...loved it & will continue to love it - no options though. I suppose, the older design had:-

1. Excellent front grill with a evident "T"
2. The rear seat cover was very elegant & was on the lines of a endeavour/ pajero. The new one looks like a "locally fabricated" cover.

amit_mechengg · 29th December 2007, 15:22

i think the ZEN estilo is a strict no and a failure... the interiors look so cheap and on a big road estilo looks like a mouse that too a cramped one. why is maruti screwing its own well settled model??? zen is perhaps the best selling car.
but SX4 is the best thing done over the boxy ...ugly rear....baleno....i wonder how the designers landed with those ugly looking tail lamps on baleno... SX4 is so sporty....

honda city is perhaps the future car...it looks that they have designed for 2020.....but nice design.....
innova was the best launch after the boxy rolling qualis.....had it been kirloskar qualis no one would have touched it....they dumped the rejected model in india....
accent was better looking than verna...though verna is way ahead in technology.....
cedia as well as lancer both are gud....

amitg79 · 31st December 2007, 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabloo

OHC was 3rd Generation Honda City.
NHC is the 4th generation Honda City.
So NHC is not a redesign of OHC.

Note: NHC ZX is redesign of pre-ZX NHC.

Further to that, the NHC is actually a Honda Jazz with a boot stuck on, hence a completely different vehicle with the same name. But what you are saying is right... I would have loved if the old City had evolved, rather than completely changing the car. The next city's supposed to be very good, though. Will look a bit like the Civic and will obviously go much better than the current City.

vasudeva · 31st December 2007, 19:04

Verna, Verna, Verna.

toiingg · 31st December 2007, 19:14

Zen Classic, Estilo & NHC

varun.ppl · 31st December 2007, 21:33

I walk down the memory lane & what i come thru is this:

Best OK Worst
Zen( The Originial) Zen(A Bit modified) Zen Estilo
Honda City(model after 1999) Honda City(First One) NHC
CRV (Orig) New CRV Waiting
Indica (Present) Indica (First)
Optra(Orig) Optra Magnum
Santro xing Santro(Orig)
Palio(Orig) Palio Stile
(Was it anytime good) Mahindra bolero

These were my 2 cents!!!

Jeep · 2nd May 2008, 15:50

Too late to see this thread!
My pick
1. Second generation Zen (that was stopped) as well as Estilo
2. New M800
3. Palio Stile
4. Verna

Is it just me who thinks that the new CR-V looks better? The new one definitely has more aggressive looks and road presence.

diabloo · 2nd May 2008, 15:57

Me think too. Old CRV is just plain Jane.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeep

Is it just me who thinks that the new CR-V looks better? The new one definitely has more aggressive looks and road presence.

PAVAN KADAM · 2nd May 2008, 16:03

Nice thread this.

Me thinks.

1) Zen - estilo was the worst ever
redesign, Zen is sinking becoz of this.

2) Honda City- the new one looks like a toy.

abhinav.gupta88 · 2nd May 2008, 16:12

I dont even like the DZIRE ( Same indigo tactics) add a boot to a hatch. IMO Esteem was better.

RX135 · 2nd May 2008, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

but SX4 is the best thing done over the boxy ...ugly rear....baleno....i wonder how the designers landed with those ugly looking tail lamps on baleno... SX4 is so sporty....

Though you are entitled to your opinion, I don't think Baleno was as bad. Forget the taillamp cluster, but the car had very good stance and an excellent side view to which SX4 doesn't even come close. It was a good old gen low slung sporty sedan compared to today's cab forward "tall boy" ones like SX4, NHC.

extreme_torque · 2nd May 2008, 16:37

Estilo and the older Zen share the same brand and thats about it. The new estilo isnt a redesign of the older zen. Same is the case of baleno and SX4.

P.S. I hate both zens... I could never justify why the old zen sold at ridiculously high prices.

Chevy_lover · 2nd May 2008, 17:03

I would say Zen Estillo and Verna!

nickatnite · 2nd May 2008, 17:15

The DZire wins the contest hands down. It is a 'hunchback of Notre Dame on wheels'. How can they?. All MSIL had to do was to take the Liana , gussy it up a bit and you got a winner. Why do they do this to us Indians?.Or, if it was designed in India, why...?

architect · 2nd May 2008, 17:52

I understand that this thread should talk of facelifts rather than Re-design. It's not fair to compare redesigns, I think, because a car redesigned ends up as a "New Generation" car. A New Generation car generally involves a significant change in proportion (usually an increase), so body styling changes quite a bit despite some efforts to retain "family" styling cues.

Inter-generation comparisons are not fair IMHO:
OHC vs NHC (Radically different cars)
Old Camry vs New Camry
Old C-RV vs New CR-V
Zen vs Zen Estilo
Old Accord vs New Accord vs 2008 Accord
Old C-Class Merc vs New C-Class Merc 2008 (headlamps like Indigo)

Comparisions that are fair IMO and I consider ruined by facelift (in some case a facelift has improved things, only to be spoiled by further facelift):
(best to worst)
1983 Maruti 800 > 1985 Maruti 800 > 2004 Maruti 800 > 1999 Maruti 800.
1994 Zen > 2003 Zen > Zen Classic (not a facelift but an alternative)
Indica V2 > Indica V1 > Indica with Side Skirts > Indica with Side Skirts 2007
Getz > Getz Prime
Wagon R magic > Wagon R original > New Wagon R
Old Safari > New Safari
Alto 2005 > Original Alto
...and many more

Hatchback vs Sedan
Ah that's another story and the possibly the most difficult one aesthetically. My list, in order of Good Conversion to Bad Conversion:

Ford Fiesta hatchback > Ford Ikon (Best)
Fiat Palio > Fiat Siena
Opel Corsa Sail > Opel Corsa Sedan
Honda Fit / Jazz > Honda City
Tata Indica > Tata Indigo
Maruti Swift > Maruti Dzire (Worst)

Aesthetics is largely about 3 things: Proportion, Material & Detailing.
A good proportion can be ruined by bad detailing (and later saved by better detailing e.g Santro > Santro Xing) or the other way round, good detailing spoiled by bad proportion (Indigo). With material, unfortunately, there's not much scope in cars.

Personally, I think new generation cars often end up looking worse than the predecessors. And in India, most facelifts are done to give a "fresh" look. But that usually robs the car of its original harmony of styling. Largely because the facelift team is different from the original creators. Like the original Japanese Zen design facelifted by the Indian Design Studio and the European Swift into Swift Dzire by Indian Studio. This is not to ridicule Indian Design Studios, (they have given us the Pulsars, Karizmas and the CBZs too) but to suggest that the facelifts should perhaps be tackled by the original designers themselves.

1st December 2007, 08:15	#76
m3_07 BHPian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 275 Thanked: 203 Times	Sirs, I am a great fan of Safari...loved it & will continue to love it - no options though. I suppose, the older design had:- 1. Excellent front grill with a evident "T" 2. The rear seat cover was very elegant & was on the lines of a endeavour/ pajero. The new one looks like a "locally fabricated" cover.
	() Thanks

29th December 2007, 15:22	#77
amit_mechengg Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 2,488 Thanked: 2,252 Times View My Garage	poor revamps i think the ZEN estilo is a strict no and a failure... the interiors look so cheap and on a big road estilo looks like a mouse that too a cramped one. why is maruti screwing its own well settled model??? zen is perhaps the best selling car. but SX4 is the best thing done over the boxy ...ugly rear....baleno....i wonder how the designers landed with those ugly looking tail lamps on baleno... SX4 is so sporty.... honda city is perhaps the future car...it looks that they have designed for 2020.....but nice design..... innova was the best launch after the boxy rolling qualis.....had it been kirloskar qualis no one would have touched it....they dumped the rejected model in india.... accent was better looking than verna...though verna is way ahead in technology..... cedia as well as lancer both are gud....
	() Thanks

31st December 2007, 19:04	#79
vasudeva Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 2,221 Thanked: 212 Times	Verna, Verna, Verna.
	() Thanks

31st December 2007, 19:14	#80
toiingg BHPian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Calcutta Posts: 639 Thanked: 266 Times	Zen Classic, Estilo & NHC
	() Thanks

31st December 2007, 21:33	#81
varun.ppl BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: New Delhi Posts: 160 Thanked: 225 Times	I walk down the memory lane & what i come thru is this: Best OK Worst Zen( The Originial) Zen(A Bit modified) Zen Estilo Honda City(model after 1999) Honda City(First One) NHC CRV (Orig) New CRV Waiting Indica (Present) Indica (First) Optra(Orig) Optra Magnum Santro xing Santro(Orig) Palio(Orig) Palio Stile (Was it anytime good) Mahindra bolero These were my 2 cents!!!
	() Thanks

2nd May 2008, 15:50	#82
Jeep BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London Posts: 438 Thanked: 67 Times	Too late to see this thread! My pick 1. Second generation Zen (that was stopped) as well as Estilo 2. New M800 3. Palio Stile 4. Verna Is it just me who thinks that the new CR-V looks better? The new one definitely has more aggressive looks and road presence.
	() Thanks

2nd May 2008, 16:03	#84
PAVAN KADAM BANNED Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: NAMMA BENGALURU Posts: 5,602 Thanked: 2,549 Times	Nice thread this. Me thinks. 1) Zen - estilo was the worst ever redesign, Zen is sinking becoz of this. 2) Honda City- the new one looks like a toy.
	() Thanks

2nd May 2008, 16:12	#85
abhinav.gupta88 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Delhi , India Posts: 4,092 Thanked: 325 Times View My Garage	I dont even like the DZIRE ( Same indigo tactics) add a boot to a hatch. IMO Esteem was better.
	() Thanks

2nd May 2008, 16:37	#87
extreme_torque Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Melbourne Posts: 4,377 Thanked: 5,105 Times	Estilo and the older Zen share the same brand and thats about it. The new estilo isnt a redesign of the older zen. Same is the case of baleno and SX4. P.S. I hate both zens... I could never justify why the old zen sold at ridiculously high prices.
	() Thanks

2nd May 2008, 17:03	#88
Chevy_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Köln Posts: 1,209 Thanked: 130 Times View My Garage	I would say Zen Estillo and Verna!
	() Thanks

2nd May 2008, 17:15	#89
nickatnite Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NYC/MAA Posts: 1,430 Thanked: 603 Times	The DZire wins the contest hands down. It is a 'hunchback of Notre Dame on wheels'. How can they?. All MSIL had to do was to take the Liana , gussy it up a bit and you got a winner. Why do they do this to us Indians?.Or, if it was designed in India, why...? Attached Thumbnails
	() Thanks

2nd May 2008, 17:52	#90
architect Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Ghaziabad, U. P Posts: 1,359 Thanked: 764 Times	Re-Design or Facelift or Boot Addition? I understand that this thread should talk of facelifts rather than Re-design. It's not fair to compare redesigns, I think, because a car redesigned ends up as a "New Generation" car. A New Generation car generally involves a significant change in proportion (usually an increase), so body styling changes quite a bit despite some efforts to retain "family" styling cues. Inter-generation comparisons are not fair IMHO: OHC vs NHC (Radically different cars) Old Camry vs New Camry Old C-RV vs New CR-V Zen vs Zen Estilo Old Accord vs New Accord vs 2008 Accord Old C-Class Merc vs New C-Class Merc 2008 (headlamps like Indigo) Comparisions that are fair IMO and I consider ruined by facelift (in some case a facelift has improved things, only to be spoiled by further facelift): (best to worst) 1983 Maruti 800 > 1985 Maruti 800 > 2004 Maruti 800 > 1999 Maruti 800. 1994 Zen > 2003 Zen > Zen Classic (not a facelift but an alternative) Indica V2 > Indica V1 > Indica with Side Skirts > Indica with Side Skirts 2007 Getz > Getz Prime Wagon R magic > Wagon R original > New Wagon R Old Safari > New Safari Alto 2005 > Original Alto ...and many more Hatchback vs Sedan Ah that's another story and the possibly the most difficult one aesthetically. My list, in order of Good Conversion to Bad Conversion: Ford Fiesta hatchback > Ford Ikon (Best) Fiat Palio > Fiat Siena Opel Corsa Sail > Opel Corsa Sedan Honda Fit / Jazz > Honda City Tata Indica > Tata Indigo Maruti Swift > Maruti Dzire (Worst) Aesthetics is largely about 3 things: Proportion, Material & Detailing. A good proportion can be ruined by bad detailing (and later saved by better detailing e.g Santro > Santro Xing) or the other way round, good detailing spoiled by bad proportion (Indigo). With material, unfortunately, there's not much scope in cars. Personally, I think new generation cars often end up looking worse than the predecessors. And in India, most facelifts are done to give a "fresh" look. But that usually robs the car of its original harmony of styling. Largely because the facelift team is different from the original creators. Like the original Japanese Zen design facelifted by the Indian Design Studio and the European Swift into Swift Dzire by Indian Studio. This is not to ridicule Indian Design Studios, (they have given us the Pulsars, Karizmas and the CBZs too) but to suggest that the facelifts should perhaps be tackled by the original designers themselves.
	() Thanks