Myopic western world still has some ludicrous stereotypes for a country like India

rangaraj · 9th January 2008, 08:53

Guys, to get back to the topic, here is an interesting article:
Tata-made People?s Car to put India on global autos map - livemint

Some excerpts:

Dubbed the “People’s Car’, it will determine Tata’s place in the global automotive arena, where the battle is increasingly being fought in emerging economies such as India, China and Russia.

Tata Motors’ drive to produce a cheap, no-nonsense, small car was born from close observation of a local market where millions often ferry families of four, plus baggage, on motorbikes and scooters.
Critics initially derided Tata’s Rs100,000 price target, more so as oil and steel prices rocketed. But global car makers have taken note and are scurrying for their own versions to meet growing environmental and cost concerns.
“The product has rightfully gained a lot of international attention,” said Mohit Arora, managing director for India at research firm J.D. Power Asia-Pacific, who will fly in from Singapore to see the car being unveiled by Chairman Ratan Tata.
“It’s a big, big deal for Tata Motors, and will be recorded in history books, whether or not it does well.”
Volkswagen, Toyota Motor Corp, Honda Motor Co and Fiat have since said they are looking to build low-cost cars. And the Nissan Motor Co and Renault alliance, which has done well with its no-frills Logan sedan, is developing a $3,000 car with Bajaj Auto Ltd, a local Tata rival.
“Scepticism has given way to imitation,” said Ashutosh Goel, auto analyst at Edelweiss Securities.

Safety, emission concerns as Gandhian engineering readies world?s cheapest car - livemint
“It’s basically throwing out everything the auto industry had thought about cost structures in the past and taking out a clean sheet of paper and asking, ‘What’s possible?’” said Daryl T. Rolley, head of North American and Asian operations for Ariba Inc., which sources parts for Tata Motors, BMW AG, Toyota Motor Corp. and other car makers. “In the next 5-10 years, the whole auto industry is going to be flipped upside down.”
The French-Japanese alliance Renault-Nissan and Suzuki Motor Corp.’s Indian subsidiary Maruti Suzuki are trying to figure out how to make ultra-cheap cars for India. And struggling Western auto makers are looking to see where the cost-obsessed ethos of the developing world can help their profits.
Some analysts are predicting that just as the Japanese popularized kanban (just in time) and kaizen (continuous improvement), Indians could export a kind of “Gandhian engineering”, combining irreverence for conventional ways of thinking with a frugality born of developing-world scarcity. Or, as Indian automobile executive Ashok K. Taneja describes the philosophy, “When I need silver, why am I investing in gold?”

Lord Lucan · 9th January 2008, 14:37

The offending article has been removed from the autoexpo site.

katalysm76 · 18th January 2008, 17:16

The west finds it hard to swallow the fact that someone from a third world country could solve what is essentially a third world problem: a cheap car for the masses. The west expects us to consume products that they create for us. But in the end it takes one of us to solve our problems. Someday when the Tata's are an international force to reckon with on the international automobile market because of their ability to cater to the third world needs,these same critics will have to swallow their words of criticism.

sabret00the · 18th January 2008, 20:13

ha ha sometimes you wonder how ignorant they actually are...it's like some people try to associate Africa with dense jungles and fierce animals even today...

Nitin · 18th January 2008, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabret00the

ha ha sometimes you wonder how ignorant they actually are...it's like some people try to associate Africa with dense jungles and fierce animals even today...

Well,try this.
To this day, many people in the US, especially those in the smaller towns, haven't heard of a country called India. And if they have heard of it,they know that its full of elephants & people with snakes & magic carpets. I've had students ask me all sorts of questions,and it made me realize how insular these people are. A huge chunk of people haven't traveled beyond the county they live in,and to know more about the other side of the world...nah..thats asking for too much.

sbasak · 18th January 2008, 22:01

@Nitin

Not having heard of India is just too much. Your comment reminded me this famous joke

Last month, a worldwide opinion survey was conducted by the United
Nations.
The only question asked was:
“Would you please give your honest opinion about solutions to the
food shortage in the rest of the world?”
The survey was a huge failure …
In Africa, they didn’t know what “food” meant.
In Eastern Europe, they didn’t know what “honest” meant.
In Western Europe, they didn’t know what “shortage” meant.
In China, they didn’t know what “opinion” meant.
In the Middle East, they didn’t know what “solution” meant.
In South America, they didn’t know what “please” meant.
And in the USA they didn’t know what “the rest of the world” meant.

Mods might be willing to move this to jokes thread

Nitin · 18th January 2008, 22:05

haha..i've come across this joke earlier,sbasak.
To the US, there is no rest of the world. Its them,them and only them. Same goes for the EU,the self-focussed set of countries who know nothing about the rest of the world.

katalysm76 · 23rd January 2008, 17:23

I don't see why they should bother much with us except for trade.They let Africa starve and its citizens kill itself.For them they are all that is good in the world,we are all expendable.

anandpadhye · 23rd January 2008, 19:11

Of all the third party and competitor's comments, following 2 are worth noting:

Mr. Takedagawa (Honda India): I have not seen the car (Nano), but I am sure, we can learn something about manufactuing and cost engineering from this.

Mr. Venu Sriniwasan (TVS): Today is a red letter day in the history of Indian manufacturing. Tata's have made the country proud.

**NOTE** - Forgive me for not remembering the excact word to word text. But these were published in Times Of India the next day.

These 2 are so different compared to all other comments I heard and read.
Now, I have one more reason to feel good about owning the NHC and Fierro...

sabret00the · 23rd January 2008, 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitin

Well,try this.
To this day, many people in the US, especially those in the smaller towns, haven't heard of a country called India. And if they have heard of it,they know that its full of elephants & people with snakes & magic carpets. I've had students ask me all sorts of questions,and it made me realize how insular these people are. A huge chunk of people haven't traveled beyond the county they live in,and to know more about the other side of the world...nah..thats asking for too much.

I can vouch my life with this...this is so so true...especially people from Nebraska, Nevada, etc where they live in small towns have never even heard of India. Once on a client con-call I had someone ask me if we really have elephants on roads or not...trust me things like what Nitin is talking about has happened to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbasak

@Nitin

Not having heard of India is just too much. Your comment reminded me this famous joke

might sound impossible to us but trust me I was amazed by the fact that there lives someone on this planet who didnt know that I'am from a country called India..the lady thought I was Spanish.

Nitin · 23rd January 2008, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabret00the

might sound impossible to us but trust me I was amazed by the fact that there lives someone on this planet who didnt know that I'am from a country called India..the lady thought I was Spanish.

Forget Nevada,a state such as OH,where there are thousands of Indians (some who've settled in the US for over 40-50years),the locals have no clue where India is on the globe.

My very 1st class as a TA,I mentioned to my students that I'm from India. One guy asks me.. 'oh..Indiana?'
All I could do is,ask them all to go look at a map of the world.

Samurai · 23rd January 2008, 21:03

I won't be surpirsed. I remember meeting a 30 year old native of Rochester (of NY state), who had never been to New york city. It is really odd considering the guy was in the Army for 8 years and travelled a few countries while at it.

Nitin · 23rd January 2008, 21:17

Samurai,I got the shock of my life,when a faculty member of the University I was in,told me that he had not been to Detroit,which is just about 70 miles from the university town. When I told him that I had visited the US in 1997 (as a tourist;I got here for my MS in 2002), he looked at me as if I was some great personality.
It took me just a few more countries to mention (ones that I had visited), for him to walk away in amazement! And I stood there thinking..' Did I just say something wrong? '

spawnofsatan · 24th January 2008, 07:54

I agree with the recent posts that my fellow members made. When i was going to school in Michigan this one girl asked me where i was from, and i said India, and her exact words were "Ohh so is it all sandy and dry there??" this one other kid asked me "ohh how is it there? do you guys have mc donald's and cars?" and I replied "No we don't I actually am a son of a poor farmer and my dad had to mortgage his chickens, cows and plough to send me to the states to study" I think he believed me. I have learnt that many people that are from "poorer" backgrounds or don't have a complete education tend be ignorant/arrogant about other countries like India. People that have an education seem to respect Indians because they know we as a people as hard-working, honest and extremely intelligent....also did I mention that we invented the kamasutra?

Since my move to Los Angeles almost 2years ago many people think I am Mexican, which frankly is quite annoying, but this is usually from uneducated Mexicans or truck drivers, hotel employees and the like. People with an education know I am Indian and behave appropriately. I also believe all the negative remarks are from people from Alabama, Georgia, the Dakotas and those states which are pretty worthless to the world. They also might be from jealous people that think India is stealing their jobs and they KNOW we are better and hence are negative/hateful in response. Its human nature. At the end of the day I know I am from the best and the most intelligent culture in the world, we have good things coming for us, only if we all did our part and helped towards advancement of the country. This is why I am moving back to India next year, there is no place like home.

I sincerely hope that all of us don't forget who we are after reading this thread, lets make small changes that eventually make a big difference for our country.

bblost · 24th January 2008, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofsatan

also did I mention that we invented the kamasutra?

we did not invent it, we wrote the instruction manual.
before that it was just a simple in out repeat stuff.

God I miss those days, ouch my back hurts!

9th January 2008, 08:53	#31
rangaraj BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 570 Thanked: 10 Times	Get back to the topic.. Guys, to get back to the topic, here is an interesting article: Tata-made People?s Car to put India on global autos map - livemint Some excerpts: Dubbed the “People’s Car’, it will determine Tata’s place in the global automotive arena, where the battle is increasingly being fought in emerging economies such as India, China and Russia. Tata Motors’ drive to produce a cheap, no-nonsense, small car was born from close observation of a local market where millions often ferry families of four, plus baggage, on motorbikes and scooters. Critics initially derided Tata’s Rs100,000 price target, more so as oil and steel prices rocketed. But global car makers have taken note and are scurrying for their own versions to meet growing environmental and cost concerns. “The product has rightfully gained a lot of international attention,” said Mohit Arora, managing director for India at research firm J.D. Power Asia-Pacific, who will fly in from Singapore to see the car being unveiled by Chairman Ratan Tata. “It’s a big, big deal for Tata Motors, and will be recorded in history books, whether or not it does well.” Volkswagen, Toyota Motor Corp, Honda Motor Co and Fiat have since said they are looking to build low-cost cars. And the Nissan Motor Co and Renault alliance, which has done well with its no-frills Logan sedan, is developing a $3,000 car with Bajaj Auto Ltd, a local Tata rival. “Scepticism has given way to imitation,” said Ashutosh Goel, auto analyst at Edelweiss Securities. Safety, emission concerns as Gandhian engineering readies world?s cheapest car - livemint “It’s basically throwing out everything the auto industry had thought about cost structures in the past and taking out a clean sheet of paper and asking, ‘What’s possible?’” said Daryl T. Rolley, head of North American and Asian operations for Ariba Inc., which sources parts for Tata Motors, BMW AG, Toyota Motor Corp. and other car makers. “In the next 5-10 years, the whole auto industry is going to be flipped upside down.” The French-Japanese alliance Renault-Nissan and Suzuki Motor Corp.’s Indian subsidiary Maruti Suzuki are trying to figure out how to make ultra-cheap cars for India. And struggling Western auto makers are looking to see where the cost-obsessed ethos of the developing world can help their profits. Some analysts are predicting that just as the Japanese popularized kanban (just in time) and kaizen (continuous improvement), Indians could export a kind of “Gandhian engineering”, combining irreverence for conventional ways of thinking with a frugality born of developing-world scarcity. Or, as Indian automobile executive Ashok K. Taneja describes the philosophy, “When I need silver, why am I investing in gold?”
	() Thanks

9th January 2008, 14:37	#32
Lord Lucan BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 144 Thanked: 74 Times	The offending article has been removed from the autoexpo site.
	() Thanks

18th January 2008, 17:16	#33
katalysm76 BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Bombay Posts: 120 Thanked: 2 Times	The west finds it hard to swallow the fact that someone from a third world country could solve what is essentially a third world problem: a cheap car for the masses. The west expects us to consume products that they create for us. But in the end it takes one of us to solve our problems. Someday when the Tata's are an international force to reckon with on the international automobile market because of their ability to cater to the third world needs,these same critics will have to swallow their words of criticism.
	() Thanks

18th January 2008, 20:13	#34
sabret00the BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: YYC \| BLR \| CCU Posts: 692 Thanked: 55 Times View My Garage	ha ha sometimes you wonder how ignorant they actually are...it's like some people try to associate Africa with dense jungles and fierce animals even today...
	() Thanks

18th January 2008, 22:01	#36
sbasak BHPian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CCU-LTN Posts: 608 Thanked: 14 Times	@Nitin Not having heard of India is just too much. Your comment reminded me this famous joke Last month, a worldwide opinion survey was conducted by the United Nations. The only question asked was: “Would you please give your honest opinion about solutions to the food shortage in the rest of the world?” The survey was a huge failure … In Africa, they didn’t know what “food” meant. In Eastern Europe, they didn’t know what “honest” meant. In Western Europe, they didn’t know what “shortage” meant. In China, they didn’t know what “opinion” meant. In the Middle East, they didn’t know what “solution” meant. In South America, they didn’t know what “please” meant. And in the USA they didn’t know what “the rest of the world” meant. Mods might be willing to move this to jokes thread
	() Thanks

18th January 2008, 22:05	#37
Nitin Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 3,294 Thanked: 20 Times View My Garage	haha..i've come across this joke earlier,sbasak. To the US, there is no rest of the world. Its them,them and only them. Same goes for the EU,the self-focussed set of countries who know nothing about the rest of the world.
	() Thanks

23rd January 2008, 17:23	#38
katalysm76 BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Bombay Posts: 120 Thanked: 2 Times	I don't see why they should bother much with us except for trade.They let Africa starve and its citizens kill itself.For them they are all that is good in the world,we are all expendable.
	() Thanks

23rd January 2008, 19:11	#39
anandpadhye Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 3,054 Thanked: 3,313 Times	Of all the third party and competitor's comments, following 2 are worth noting: Mr. Takedagawa (Honda India): I have not seen the car (Nano), but I am sure, we can learn something about manufactuing and cost engineering from this. Mr. Venu Sriniwasan (TVS): Today is a red letter day in the history of Indian manufacturing. Tata's have made the country proud. NOTE - Forgive me for not remembering the excact word to word text. But these were published in Times Of India the next day. These 2 are so different compared to all other comments I heard and read. Now, I have one more reason to feel good about owning the NHC and Fierro... Last edited by anandpadhye : 23rd January 2008 at 19:13.
	() Thanks

23rd January 2008, 21:03	#42
Samurai Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore/Udupi Posts: 25,828 Thanked: 45,555 Times View My Garage	I won't be surpirsed. I remember meeting a 30 year old native of Rochester (of NY state), who had never been to New york city. It is really odd considering the guy was in the Army for 8 years and travelled a few countries while at it.
	() Thanks

23rd January 2008, 21:17	#43
Nitin Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 3,294 Thanked: 20 Times View My Garage	Samurai,I got the shock of my life,when a faculty member of the University I was in,told me that he had not been to Detroit,which is just about 70 miles from the university town. When I told him that I had visited the US in 1997 (as a tourist;I got here for my MS in 2002), he looked at me as if I was some great personality. It took me just a few more countries to mention (ones that I had visited), for him to walk away in amazement! And I stood there thinking..' Did I just say something wrong? '
	() Thanks

24th January 2008, 07:54	#44
spawnofsatan BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Los angeles/Mumbai Posts: 708 Thanked: 93 Times View My Garage	I agree with the recent posts that my fellow members made. When i was going to school in Michigan this one girl asked me where i was from, and i said India, and her exact words were "Ohh so is it all sandy and dry there??" this one other kid asked me "ohh how is it there? do you guys have mc donald's and cars?" and I replied "No we don't I actually am a son of a poor farmer and my dad had to mortgage his chickens, cows and plough to send me to the states to study" I think he believed me. I have learnt that many people that are from "poorer" backgrounds or don't have a complete education tend be ignorant/arrogant about other countries like India. People that have an education seem to respect Indians because they know we as a people as hard-working, honest and extremely intelligent....also did I mention that we invented the kamasutra? Since my move to Los Angeles almost 2years ago many people think I am Mexican, which frankly is quite annoying, but this is usually from uneducated Mexicans or truck drivers, hotel employees and the like. People with an education know I am Indian and behave appropriately. I also believe all the negative remarks are from people from Alabama, Georgia, the Dakotas and those states which are pretty worthless to the world. They also might be from jealous people that think India is stealing their jobs and they KNOW we are better and hence are negative/hateful in response. Its human nature. At the end of the day I know I am from the best and the most intelligent culture in the world, we have good things coming for us, only if we all did our part and helped towards advancement of the country. This is why I am moving back to India next year, there is no place like home. I sincerely hope that all of us don't forget who we are after reading this thread, lets make small changes that eventually make a big difference for our country.
	() Thanks