[gowda79]

Originally Posted by condor

Buy extended wty & be very careful not to do anything that will void your wty. Even using anything with better specs than what the TASS will use.

That's true, which makes life happy for both the car and the owner......

[LLL]

Originally Posted by condor

Even using anything with better specs than what the TASS will use.

thats a real mean remark

Originally Posted by gowda79

That's true, which makes life happy for both the car and the owner......

[1100D]

Originally Posted by LLL

i hope tatas are reading this forum and would do something about the rear.

The main issue at the rear is mainly the mismatch of the overall shape with the horizontal tail lights. The Lights are begging to be vertical.

The D-pillar top part is too empty, needs some details to be added.

[condor]

condor : Even using anything with better specs than what the TASS will use.
LLL : thats a real mean remark

Unfortunately, true.

Example : The TASS will use engine oil of the grade specified in the owner's manual. If you want to use anything better, you cant. They wont do it for you, and if you dont get things done from the TASS - they consider it that you havent done it at all ! So your (extended) wty will be void.

zenx : I guess the lack of the door lends to better rigidity.

You mean there's no rear door at all ?!

LLL : i hope tatas are reading this forum and would do something about the rear.
zenx : ..its hardly a beauty contest at all
1100D : The Lights are begging to be vertical. .. The D-pillar top part is too empty, needs some details to be added.

Guys, are we expecting a new vehicle to be on the lines of previous models / similar models (Scorpio, Tavera, Innova etc ?)

While a new model will invite comparison with existing models, but we also need to consider some things on their own.

Adding the spare wheel to the rear door will mean Tata will have to strengthen the rear door support to prevent rattling. The spare wheel being mounted on the rear door does help in the looks department. But a spare wheel mounted below the body also makes it very dirty - esp in the monsoons. So much that you'd want to wash it first before you touch it. And that's something you wont have the time for when you are trying to change a flat tyre.

I saw the full page advertisement in newspapers for the Grande Sumo. I think it managed to convey the general idea quite well, and will definitely convince Scorpio and even most Innova buyers to make a trip to the Tata showrooms.

Of the two, the Scorpio will certainly suffer the most, Tata didn't really have a contemporary vehicle in this class/price point and they had given away the market share. Now they'll regain it at other's expense.

[drsk]

Originally Posted by mamba24

Tata should move the safari to the lower variant to compete with the Bolero and keep the grande a straight forward competitor with the scorpio.

Being a Safari lover, I was feeling bad about people comparing it with Scorpio. I felt that Safari was in a league higher like that of the Endeavor. (though Safari had its shortfalls in refinement)

Bringing the low-end varaint down to Bolero levels is like killing the brand.

I feel that the low-end variant of Safari was introduced to counter Scorpio. Now, with Sumo Grande being launched, the Tata guys should stop the low-end variant and concentrate in bringin out the next-gen Safari with very good refinement levels by 2009. (I believe the plastic quality and refinement levels of the new Indica V3 is supposed to have impressed many)

[sudhirlp]

I recollect reading that the rear leaf spring suspension in Grande is some minor cause for discomfort in terms of ride quality.

I did a quick check around and found the following

• Sumo Victa - Rear, Parabolic Leaf Spring
• Sumo Grande - Rear, Parabolic Leaf Spring
• Mahindra Scorpio - Rear, Leaf Spring
• Mahindra Bolero - Rear, Elliptical Leaf Spring
• Tata Safari - 5 link Suspension with coil springs
• Ford Endeavor - Progressive Linear Rate Leaf Springs with low friction pads

Given that the Sumo stable as well as Mahindra Scorpio/Bolero have leaf spring suspension in the rear, won't the ride quality in Grande be equally good/bad when compared to those ?

I'm a layman and don't understand what "leaf spring suspension" actually translates to (will google it up some time), but the few times I read about the concerns on ride quality due to leaf spring suspension, I was a bit worried. Now that I look around, it's more or less the same in the other vehicles as well. Not that Tata couldn't have improved on Grande being the family MUV and decent top-class to have something better, but per se, this doesn't seem such a bad thing after all.

Comments ?

[condor]

sudhirlp : Given that the Sumo stable as well as Mahindra Scorpio/Bolero have leaf spring suspension in the rear, won't the ride quality in Grande be equally good/bad when compared to those ?

Just having leaf springs doesn't mean everything about the behaviour of a suspension system. It's the design & the over-all package. Even a Tavera has leaf springs at the rear. How do you find the ride on that ?

sudhirlp : I'm a layman and don't understand what "leaf spring suspension" actually translates to..

You would have seen it all around you. Look under the rear wheels of any truck and on the inside of each wheel(s), you'll find a set of long metallic blades stacked together. The set will consist of blades of progressively reducing lenghts. That's a leaf spring.

[sudhirlp]

Originally Posted by condor

Even a Tavera has leaf springs at the rear. How do you find the ride on that ?

Don't know. Haven't been in one to be able to comment.

Originally Posted by condor

You would have seen it all around you. Look under the rear wheels of any truck and on the inside of each wheel(s), you'll find a set of long metallic blades stacked together. The set will consist of blades of progressively reducing lenghts. That's a leaf spring.

Thanks for reminding. Now, I recall.

Well, I learnt that parabolic leaf springs are recent inventions and bring ride quality closer to that of coil springs. Also, SUVs are generally fitted with leaf springs.

Well, Google and Wikipedia to the rescue. There's enough information there for laymen for a start.

[directinjection]

Originally Posted by sudhirlp

Well, I learnt that parabolic leaf springs are recent inventions and bring ride quality closer to that of coil springs. Also, SUVs are generally fitted with leaf springs.

Parabolics have been around for a long time, even in India. Their advantage over conventional leaf springs is by way of weight reduction rather than ride quality improvement.

[sudhirlp]

Incidentally autocar india says in its Mar 2008 review of Tata Sumo Grande that the ABS version is not far off. I don't know if they are speculating or whether the company confirmed that.

Does anyone know ?

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by sudhirlp

I recollect reading that the rear leaf spring suspension in Grande is some minor cause for discomfort in terms of ride quality.

I did a quick check around and found the following

• Sumo Victa - Rear, Parabolic Leaf Spring
• Sumo Grande - Rear, Parabolic Leaf Spring
• Mahindra Scorpio - Rear, Leaf Spring
• Mahindra Bolero - Rear, Elliptical Leaf Spring
• Tata Safari - 5 link Suspension with coil springs
• Ford Endeavor - Progressive Linear Rate Leaf Springs with low friction pads

Given that the Sumo stable as well as Mahindra Scorpio/Bolero have leaf spring suspension in the rear, won't the ride quality in Grande be equally good/bad when compared to those ?

I'm a layman and don't understand what "leaf spring suspension" actually translates to (will google it up some time), but the few times I read about the concerns on ride quality due to leaf spring suspension, I was a bit worried. Now that I look around, it's more or less the same in the other vehicles as well. Not that Tata couldn't have improved on Grande being the family MUV and decent top-class to have something better, but per se, this doesn't seem such a bad thing after all.

Comments ?

mahindra has abondoned the leaf spring setup for the scorpio long back. the new mHawk as well as the old CRDe scorpio uses coil springs like the safari and not leaf springs.

[1100D]

Originally Posted by sudhirlp

I'm a layman and don't understand what "leaf spring suspension" actually translates to (will google it up some time), but the few times I read about the concerns on ride quality due to leaf spring suspension, I was a bit worried. Now that I look around, it's more or less the same in the other vehicles as well. Not that Tata couldn't have improved on Grande being the family MUV and decent top-class to have something better, but per se, this doesn't seem such a bad thing after all.

Comments ?

It doesn't matter if its leaf or coil, as long as it works to satisfy modern expectation of ride and handling. There must have been some reason why the rear suspension from the safari was not adopted on this, given that this was a grounds-up new product. (Or was it the constraint of continuing to use earlier Sumo underpinnings)

[shankar.balan]

Sumo Grande will not be able to kill Scorpio
Never forget since a car has a lot to do with Heart over Head - many enthusiasts will go for the Scorpio's Image, proven toughness, performance and comfort - end of the day the Sumo Grande is only another choice in the market.

Originally Posted by 1100D

It doesn't matter if its leaf or coil, as long as it works to satisfy modern expectation of ride and handling. There must have been some reason why the rear suspension from the safari was not adopted on this, given that this was a grounds-up new product. (Or was it the constraint of continuing to use earlier Sumo underpinnings)

[ajnagpur]

Mahindra has to upgrade the Scorpio looks.... its feels old style nowadays.

Sumo Grande beats Scorpio hands on in terms of looks.