[praveen_v]

Originally Posted by anilkalvani

Suppose i tweak the equation a little

Diesel Logan
Distance/month: 1000 KM
Average Speed: 0-35 KMPH (Heavy Stop & Go Traffic in Mumbai)
Fuel Consumed: 83.33 ltr
Fuel Cost: Rs. 3000 (@36)
Average: 12 kmpl (with 100% a/c)

Expected same if I had petrol car:

Distance/month: 1000 KM
Average Speed: 0-35 KMPH
Fuel Consumed: 117.65 ltr
Fuel Cost: Rs. 6000 (@51)
Average: 8.5 kmpl (with 100% a/c)
(PETROL CARS ARE LESSER FUEL EFFICIENT THAN DIESEL ESPECIALLY IN HEAVY TRAFFIC; MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE)

this excludes forthnightly away trips

So, my perspective, & solely my opinion, is that not only does doing more kms/year matter but also driving conditions play a big part.

cheers:
Anil

Once again it's a comparison of running in a period, where the diesel will obviously turn out cheaper. The main gain with the petrol car is when you buy it. Once the purchase is over, the diesel will always be economical. So the kms run will be the determining factor as to which one to go for.

And yes, diesel is more fuel efficient than petrols (of similar models) and this holds true both while running and when idling(and crawling).

Originally Posted by ravibhat

In India everything go by HYPE and common man falls prey to this which is very unfortunate.

People who commute around 1000km per month buy Diesel by calculating fuel bill. When we consider all into the account I feel Petrol and Diesel won't make much difference.

In City driving condition Diesel vehicle with good torque is ideal choice while on highway cruising Petrol gives best comfort with excellant pickup with Ac on.

Exactly my thoughts. I own a non-crdi diesel and felt that the engine response kept getting lower and lower in it's life. And IMO diesels require more maintanance logically because it's heavier and have more working parts.

In few years the HYPE about Diesel cars will cool down and Petrol and Diesel will have same value.

The diesel is cheaper now only because Trucks/Buses run on it. If the current trend in oil prices continues, the govt might be prompted to sell diesel under different pricing. A special pricing for the essential goods carrying trucks and govt transport buses, while a different diesel pricing for the induvidual and private users.

With the mega increase in diesel car sales, I am sure different diesel pricing policy will be implemented sometime in the future.

[sahakar]

Here's an article of diesel coming back in favor in the US.
It has very good points and counter points on diesels.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/au.../18DIESEL.html

The pros for diesel are -
- More environmentally friendly
- Diesel engines extract more power out of the engine due to higher compression ratios
- Diesels give higher mileage
- Diesels are more hardy vehicles and have better resale values

The cons for diesel are -
- Current higher price diesel reduces the advantage of higher mileage
- Consumers pay more for diesel cars
- Competition from hybrids

However, the killer alternative would be diesel hybrids. Till practical electric or hydrogen fuel cars arrive, diesel hybrids may be the next big thing.

[Woods]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Ravi,

to add to your point, cars like swift diesel or dZire are fantastic for mid traffic roll ons, but for someone in urban crawls - the turbo lag is downright irritating. Ditto shame for Indica/go TDIs. While say a UVA/i10 would be driving happily in clutch traffic!

Not true mate!
Clearly you haven't driven the swift D in urban crawls because if you had, you would know that swift D is a charm to drive.

Especially with the beefed up clutch, which once released makes the car to move from a stand still even in second gear!

Coming to your misconception about the turbo lag. This comes into picture when you slow down on a highway, for example, and want to accelerate fast to get back to speed. Now this is when the turbo lag does makes its presence felt.

And you know what mate? it is this Turbo lag, after which, swift D feels like a rocket (once the turbo kicks in)!

[amit_purohit20]

Hello Guys,

I just replied to another thread about how to calculate the total costs involved with Petrol Vs Diesel. Please refer the following:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/hatchb...ml#post1146536

It gives you the true picture in totality and you need not worry about monthly running figures and there accuracy. Just do these simple calculations and you know whether the diesel is worth or not. All the coments are totaly based on a financial perspective only.

[gemithomas]

Originally Posted by GTO

Interesting that you mention both. Most people think that the running costs are lower only due to the lower cost of diesel. Incorrect since a diesel engine (similar size and application) is also more fuel efficient. So its a double gain!

Isnt the servce costs higher for the diesels and simmilarly the initial extra money you have to chip in. Considering all these aspects, On an average, if you need to get back that money in atleast 2 years how much should you run per day?

[DieselFan]

It depends on which car we are talking of. If it is a Hatch like Swift, Indica, Palio then 50 km per day gives back your money in 2 years. If it is a sedan like optra then 30-40 km would give your money back and if it is an SUV - Safari then 20-25 km per day is sufficient.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by gemithomas

Isnt the servce costs higher for the diesels and simmilarly the initial extra money you have to chip in. Considering all these aspects, On an average, if you need to get back that money in atleast 2 years how much should you run per day?

Whichever way one calculates the diesel vs. petrol financial implications, I figure that for similar sized/priced cars, a diesel lets you START to make a PROFIT if the car runs at least
- 50k km annually for 2 years
- 33k km annually for 3 years
- 25k km annually for 4 years
- 20k km annually for 5 years
- 15k km annually for 6.5 years.
i.e. this is the break-even point, where the initial cost, higher depreciation and higher service costs are equalised by the savings in fuel cost per km. After this point, you may want to use the car for 25k - 50k km more - in which case you save approximately 20% over petrol, when fuel and service costs are taken together. This would be based on the current fuel prices where diesel is 76% the cost of petrol (savings were higher before the Rs.10/5 drop in petrol/diesel prices, when diesel was 71% the cost of petrol). Only note of caution - if the engine goes bust after 125k km, your diesel profits are wiped out vs. a petrol engine, which is cheaper to rebuild.

[DieselFan]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

Whichever way one calculates the diesel vs. petrol financial implications, I figure that for similar sized/priced cars, a diesel lets you START to make a PROFIT if the car runs at least
- 50k km annually for 2 years
- 33k km annually for 3 years
- 25k km annually for 4 years
- 20k km annually for 5 years
- 15k km annually for 6.5 years.
i.e. this is the break-even point, where the initial cost, higher depreciation and higher service costs are equalised by the savings in fuel cost per km. After this point, you may want to use the car for 25k - 50k km more - in which case you save approximately 20% over petrol, when fuel and service costs are taken together. This would be based on the current fuel prices where diesel is 76% the cost of petrol (savings were higher before the Rs.10/5 drop in petrol/diesel prices, when diesel was 71% the cost of petrol). Only note of caution - if the engine goes bust after 125k km, your diesel profits are wiped out vs. a petrol engine, which is cheaper to rebuild.

These figures published by SS are way too high. I do not agree with it. Break even for a hatch is 20K kms and is much faster for a sedan or SUV. simple mathematics though. Modern day diesels have lower depreciation than their petrol counterparts (Swift, Palio, Indica, Safari, etc. to name a few).Servicing costs are not that different too. I own a Swift DDIS and in 2 years I have spent 10000 rs. and the car has done 34 K kms. I am already on the profit zone. Here is what my calculations say -

My calculation -

Cost of diesel(regular, Bangalore price) - 32
Average mileage of swift-D (highway+city) - 18
Cost per km - 1.77

Cost per 15K km per year - 26666.67

Petrol - 45
Mileage - 12 (The published FE for petrol is 11-13 kmpl)
Cost per km - 3.75

Cost per 15K km per year - 56250

Saving per year with Diesel - 30,000 Rs. (Approx)

In addition one would get a resale value of Swift D higher than Swift P by at least 70000 in 2 years.
Feb07 Swift VDI which has run 30K kms costs - 4.6 L
Feb 07 Swift VXI which has run 30K kms costs - 3.9 L
Individual value excellent condition - from Carwale.com

Initial additional cost of diesel vis-a-vis petrol swift - 4.36L for petrol and 4.96L for Diesel ex showroom. 60 K difference on ex showroom price and on the road max. of 80K difference.

Extra cost with diesel - 80,000 + 5000 + 22000 - 70000 (extra servicing cost for 2 years is about 5000, extra interest on 80 k for 2 years is 22K)

Time to break even - 1.2 year. or less than 17 K kms (Unbelievable).

In 2 years Diesel car would have got you Rs. 25K or more (Cost differential between petrol and diesel were higher in last 2 years than now) in savings vis-a-vis petrol car of same make/model.

Another point to note is Diesel engines survive much longer than their petrol counterparts. Especially modern day Turbo Diesels. servicing expenses on diesel my increase marginally after 3-4 years of use but the savings one would have gained over 3-4 years is much more than the marginal increase in the servicing cost.

[abhijit 2284]

most petrol car's have one major advantage -they are far quieter at high speeds as compared to their diesel counterparts.

try doing 110 -130 in a swift diesel for 3 hours at a stretch ,far more tiring than in a petrol.

in a indica cant even manage for more than a hour -it just tires you down.

i still prefer petrol to diesel atleast till i get something like a 3series or a4 diesel

[DieselFan]

Originally Posted by abhijit 2284

most petrol car's have one major advantage -they are far quieter at high speeds as compared to their diesel counterparts.

try doing 110 -130 in a swift diesel for 3 hours at a stretch ,far more tiring than in a petrol.

Abhijit - you will be surprised on both the above points. Swift D is quieter than P at high speeds and Swift D is less tiring than P on long drives or at high speeds or both.

[goandude]

Another aspect in this petrol vs diesel debate... The financial pain of buying a diesel car is only on one day. the day you buy it. while at every pump filling it brings smiles, smiles and smiles.
This is the psychological advantage of diesel. (that is, besides the torque)

[DieselFan]

Very true. Diesels are for car enthusiasts. Drive more - save more philosophy.

[ACM]

Originally Posted by abhijit 2284

most petrol car's have one major advantage -they are far quieter at high speeds as compared to their diesel counterparts.

try doing 110 -130 in a swift diesel for 3 hours at a stretch ,far more tiring than in a petrol.

in a indica cant even manage for more than a hour -it just tires you down.

i still prefer petrol to diesel atleast till i get something like a 3series or a4 diesel

If I may add to the previous post.

Even the new Indica Vista Quardrajet besides the Swift are more comfortable to drive for long journeys than the petrol variants of the same.

Laura's are know to be very comfortable to drive and are only available as Diesels.

Also on the original post.

Lets just compare
Accord 2.4 AT Petrol to Laura PD DSG L&K AT Diesel
Features Higher in Laura
Rear Legspace Better in Accord
Cost of Spares Comparable for both.
Resale Value Comparable depreciation.
Buying Cost: Accord is higher by about Rs. 1.25 L for the comparable models
Fuel Effeciency: Accord Petrol 8.5 Kmpls in Mix of City and Highway Driving. Laura Diesel is 12.5 Kmpls in Mix of City and Highway Driving.
I do about 30,000 Kms per year.
Would use the car for 4 years upto 12,000 kms
So would require 3529 Lts of Petrol for the Accord or 2400 Lts of Diesel for the Laura.
If both Petrol and Diesel were roughly the same cost at about Rs. 45 as it is worldwide, then the savings per year would be Rs. 50,000

At current prices of Diesel and Petrol as in Mumbai the Fuel per year costs:
Accord Petrol: 3529X46= Rs. 162,334
Laura Diesel: 2400X34.5= Rs. 82,800
the Maintenance of the Laura has always been suspect compared to the rock solid reliablity of the Accord but still the cost benifit is there for all to see - Rs. 80,000 per year for 4 years on an initial down payment that is lesser.

I do know the comparision would have been more comparable if the same prices Petrol Laura had existed, but then the Accord was the closest equivaent.

Another option would be to compare the Petol Safari with effeciency of 5 with the Diesel Safari 2.2VTT with an effeciency of 10 the difference would be even more glaring in that case.

So given how refined modern diesels are and with lessening cost of maintenance with every new edition, would say Diesel is the way to go for any annual coverage beyond 20,000 kms

Be it a Vista, or a Swift or a Linea, or a Laura, or a Merc or a BMW.

[asr245]

Originally Posted by DieselFan

Very true. Diesels are for car enthusiasts. Drive more - save more philosophy.

That is almost laughable. I am an enthusiast and I do think the the torqy diesel must be really exciting to drive but I for one can't think of doing without the free revv'ing petrol engine or the sound it makes; even in my wagonR!!

[ACM]

Originally Posted by asr245

That is almost laughable. I am an enthusiast and I do think the the torqy diesel must be really exciting to drive but I for one can't think of doing without the free revv'ing petrol engine or the sound it makes; even in my wagonR!!

Not really, the Modern Turbo / Common Rail Direct Injection Diesels are actually more fun to drive than the free revving petrol.

Have driven and owned for long comparable power to weight ratio Automatic cars, both Petrol and Diesel, and found the Diesel to be more fun to drive. The Torque make all the difference.

So too each his own.