[sridharps]

oh is it? I hadn't seen the October ACI, yet.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by RGP

Does this mean that Honda expects the City to be the high volume selling car rather than Jazz?

I think yes.
Jazz will have the same positioning problem Fusion or Fabia has. Most people either look for a typical (economical) hatchback or rather go for a sedan if they can afford to spend a kind of price these very large hatches demand.

[RGP]

Originally Posted by Guna

I think yes.
Jazz will have the same positioning problem Fusion or Fabia has. Most people either look for a typical (economical) hatchback or rather go for a sedan if they can afford to spend a kind of price these very large hatches demand.

That makes sense... but if true, then Honda's decision to bring the Jazz with the 1.2 engine does not.
If they are looking at a niche in the market I guess it should be toward the higher end rather than the lower (... unless they plan to beat the Alto on fuel economy )
I can see a market for a hot hatch with superior performance but not one with a sluggish engine giving good FE. (I may be wrong - any data on how well the low-end Fabia is doing in the market?)

[sridharps]

Originally Posted by Guna

I think yes.
Jazz will have the same positioning problem Fusion or Fabia has. Most people either look for a typical (economical) hatchback or rather go for a sedan if they can afford to spend a kind of price these very large hatches demand.

A quick look at the sales chart reveals that,currently, the market for the entire B2 segment(ie Swift,Fabia,Getz etc) size is less than the C Sedan(Fiesta,Verna,Cityetc) or even the MUV(Innova,Scorpio) segment. In the Indian car hierarchy, size matters and the sedans rule over the hatches.
Maybe the i20 & the Jazz will create more buyers and expand this segment, but that remains to be seen.

The 1.2 iVTEC seems well poised here. But if it is overpriced, the Jazz will go the Fabia/Fusion way for sure.

[karanraheja]

Originally Posted by sridharps

A quick look at the sales chart reveals that,currently, the market for the entire B2 segment(ie Swift,Fabia,Getz etc) size is less than the C Sedan(Fiesta,Verna,Cityetc) or even the MUV(Innova,Scorpio) segment. In the Indian car hierarchy, size matters and the sedans rule over the hatches.
Maybe the i20 & the Jazz will create more buyers and expand this segment, but that remains to be seen.

The 1.2 iVTEC seems well poised here. But if it is overpriced, the Jazz will go the Fabia/Fusion way for sure.

Wait & watch buddy. Who would have spend 5 lacs + for a hatchback 5 years back?? Now Getz/ Swift and others have changed the mindsets of most buyers. Obviously the Indian market will take sometime to shell out more than 6 lacs for a hatchback but yes there are quite some buyers out there. For a diesel/petrol hatchback with all bells and whistles will be preferred to a base version of a sedan. Honda would have learnt they mistakes Skoda made in pricing. But lets wait & watch how Jazz is priced.

[Fountainheader]

Originally Posted by karanraheja

Wait & watch buddy. Who would have spend 5 lacs + for a hatchback 5 years back?? Now Getz/ Swift and others have changed the mindsets of most buyers. Obviously the Indian market will take sometime to shell out more than 6 lacs for a hatchback but yes there are quite some buyers out there. For a diesel/petrol hatchback with all bells and whistles will be preferred to a base version of a sedan. Honda would have learnt they mistakes Skoda made in pricing. But lets wait & watch how Jazz is priced.

5 years back, did we even have so many options ?

India, unlike western countries, is a very "family cultured" country. Too many members and equal no. of luggages, means we need more space. So for someone who has 7L to spend, would rather go for Fiesta/Aveo rather than Fabia. IMHO!

[karanraheja]

Originally Posted by Fountainheader

5 years back, did we even have so many options ?

India, unlike western countries, is a very "family cultured" country. Too many members and equal no. of luggages, means we need more space. So for someone who has 7L to spend, would rather go for Fiesta/Aveo rather than Fabia. IMHO!

Arey ! Lets not go too deep ! I just said we will take time to accept 6 lacs + hatchback & yeah 5 years back not many manufacturers had the guts to launch a 5 lacs + hatchback. Please get my point what i meant :
Atleast 90 % buyers will go for a sedan at that price and rest would give a top end hatchback a thought. Those buyers would dont do much outings / find tough to park sedans on Indian roads would go for a hatchback with 6lac + price.

[sathyaprakash]

Honda has officialy released the photos of Jazz to be released soon courtesy WHEELS-THE HINDU on 1/10

The jazz may come with two options, a 1.2 litre iVTEC producing 90 bhp(exactly 1198cc for tax cut) and another 1.4 litre iVTEC producing 100bhp.

Transmission options include a 5 speed manual and a 6 speed semi-automatic called iSHIFT which also gives the driver an option of using as fully automatic box

Honda claims a mileage of 20kpl under normal condition, and a localisation of 76% at the time of launch.

[abhinav.gupta88]

20kpl sounds too much
i guess it will give somewhere around 15 to the maximum!

The car will surely hit sales of Fabia ( If any ) and may creep into the Swift Sales a bit.

[lawdgawd]

I've seen the Jazz in a Honda showroom for a short period. In red color. It was really tempting - mind you, I had just bought a Civic and my bro had bought a City, and this Jazz in red looked so premium, so snazzy - and its the size of a ZXi City from the outside - I was seriously tempted.

Unlike the Fabia, I think the Jazz has the potential to make people reconsider their previous ideas about a hatch. It screams quality. The photos I saw afterwards dont do justice to it - especially in red

[snaronikar]

There is hardly any difference in the 1.2L and 1.4L. It is only 10 bhp is the difference.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by snaronikar

There is hardly any difference in the 1.2L and 1.4L. It is only 10 bhp is the difference.

Bigger engines are known to have torque advantage which improves the drivability

[lalitk25]

I think 1.2L engine would be the old L series iDis engine with around 70 BHP which would be more fuel efficient and 1.4 or 1.5 can be iVtec.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by Fountainheader

So for someone who has 7L to spend, would rather go for Fiesta/Aveo rather than Fabia. IMHO!

But with Jazz things will be slightly different. It will have a luggage space equal to many small sedans and addtional flexibility of folding seats. But still majority of people are likely to consider a 3 box sedan over a large hatch, even if the later offers better value.

[quicksilver]

Originally Posted by Fountainheader

5 years back, did we even have so many options ?

India, unlike western countries, is a very "family cultured" country. Too many members and equal no. of luggages, means we need more space. So for someone who has 7L to spend, would rather go for Fiesta/Aveo rather than Fabia. IMHO!

Just a different point of view here, having gone all the way from a small car to a full size luxury sedan (by Indian Standards), I have realised that size is NOT all that matters. Blame it on the traffic and the congestion these days, I find it much easier to drive a smaller car in the City.

To me the Jazz/fit sounds like an ideal City car since it is small, reliable (going by Honda heritage) and Fuel efficient. I would take a Honda 1.2L engine any day over a Maruti/Suzuki 1.3L.