[Zappo]

ajibba, you are definitely taking exaggeration beyond limits. Its not that difficult to find tata owners who did not have parts falling off, flying off, water gushing in and god knows what else weird problems you are talking about.

And 0 ppm is your definition of a good car... hmmm. You must be one heck of a stickler for quality. So you are saying that your Toyota comes with 0 ppm quality defect? In other words you have found companies in this world who have reached the final frontier of quality. They do not or rather can not go much beyond in improving. tch ttchhh...

[suman]

Originally Posted by ajibba

I don’t know from where you got this weird idea that I made this decision 10 yeas back, are you a part time astrologist?? In that case you need to go through you hand book a couple of times more, because you got it wrong mate

Hey man, I think he mentioned the 10 years in the context of the Tata Sierra itself. No reason to be so rude in your posts but that's purely my opinion

Originally Posted by ajibba

Now , I own a Toyota Qualis RS bought it for 8 lkh + and even now Toyota company is ready to take back the vehicle at 7 lkhs, now that’s what VFM for me.

OK, I'm going to stick myself out on a limb here & say that you are exaggerating. Any reason why the Company would be doing that? Do you have an offer in Black & White or is this pure conjecture?

[greenhorn]

Originally Posted by ajibba

Greenhorn you had some issue with the timing belt. were you able to sort out why the sound was popping in at intervals?

I dont think it was the timing belt at all, at least what they claimed they did didnt solve it. Either way, the sound is there only if i havent started the car in a long while. Havent noticed it anytime recently

[Rotorhead]

Originally Posted by ajibba

My Don’t buy car would be : Any model from TATA.

Owned a TATA Sierra Turbo, the very next day I took the vehicle from the showroom, there was water dripping in the cabin, water leaking into the headlamps and tail lamps. Gap between the headlamp and bonnet (different on right and left sides). Within a week the Power steering fluid started leaking. A/C didnt work if it the switch was used multiple times…. I could go on an on ..Comon guys , I wasn’t expecting this from a brand new vehicle.

I owned this vehicle for 5 Years, on the 4th year my dad bought a Toyota Qualis ( one of the very first models) , it was then I realised how badly I was being tortured by the Sierra. Till date the only time I have seen my dad’s Quails in the workshop is for it routine service ( done every 5000km). Now, that’s what I call built to Quality.

I could be easily dragged into an argument for – why I mentioned ‘Any Model from TATA’. Though I have mentioned above my experience with my Sierra, I am not limited to just one. Of all the TATA vehicles I have driven, be it Indica, Safari, Estate, two things that go for the negative for these vehicles are – Reliability and Build Quality (I specifically mean fit and finish).

Tata sierra, estate and safari ( i guess u are talking about the old TCIC) are all history and not in production anymore. I guess the current crop of tata vehicles are not doing pretty bad infact the new safari dicor(both 3.0 and 2.2 ltr), the sumo grande, the indigo and indica are good VFM vehicle backed with a good performance. So please dont go by the sierra and estate..things have changed for good from the tata perspective..

anywz , for me the "Dont buy" car for me would be the skoda fabia..coz its just simply too overpriced for a hatch .

Originally Posted by Zappo

ajibba, you are definitely taking exaggeration beyond limits. Its not that difficult to find tata owners who did not have parts falling off, flying off, water gushing in and god knows what else weird problems you are talking about.

And 0 ppm is your definition of a good car... hmmm. You must be one heck of a stickler for quality. So you are saying that your Toyota comes with 0 ppm quality defect? In other words you have found companies in this world who have reached the final frontier of quality. They do not or rather can not go much beyond in improving. tch ttchhh...

Zappo,

The problems I mentioned are from the post of different users in this forum and a few I experienced first hand. 0 PPM doesn’t mean there is no room for improvement, there is always improvement you can make even if it is the slightest.

Are you saying there is not even a single company in this world who hasn’t attained single digit PPM- Dude you need to check out the Toyota supplier quality awards, not just Toyota, for any automobile manufacturer.

For you kind information , the company which is going to bult TATA Nano model – Caparo group has been supplying parts to Indian companies at 0 PPM for the past three years. Now are we talking about things happening in Mars??

Originally Posted by suman

Hey man, I think he mentioned the 10 years in the context of the Tata Sierra itself. No reason to be so rude in your posts but that's purely my opinion


OK, I'm going to stick myself out on a limb here & say that you are exaggerating. Any reason why the Company would be doing that? Do you have an offer in Black & White or is this pure conjecture?

Suman , Jkdas and Guys I am sorry if I was rude – ‘Evolve’ was a hard word.

As stated I don’t have the offer in Black and while, the conversation happened while the vehicle was there for servicing and also calls on the phone

[srh]

Originally Posted by ajibba

Now , I own a Toyota Qualis RS bought it for 8 lkh + and even now Toyota company is ready to take back the vehicle at 7 lkhs, now that’s what VFM for me.

Did SRK use this vehicle anytime? or maybe like in the hindi movies, there might be diamonds hidden in the seat cushion. Check it out before selling.

[jkdas]

Indica was sold in Europe. I have seen it in UK, it was called Rover City.

Telcoline ( 307? or so) is used by many govt department in Europe et for it ruggedness/VFM.

Where was Safari 2.2L first launched?

7lac? Come on! this is a automobile forum! We all know you wont get that rate. He sure took you for a ride!

Suman guessd it right, 10years ago was when we had the Estate etc.

[Zappo]

Originally Posted by ajibba

Are you saying there is not even a single company in this world who hasn’t attained single digit PPM- Dude you need to check out the Toyota supplier quality awards, not just Toyota, for any automobile manufacturer.

A single digit PPM figure for defects is really a great achievement and I am sure there are some such top notch Tier-I suppliers who do operate beyond 6σ levels. However you were talking of some stratospheric 0 ppm figure (different from single digit PPM you are now talking) and that too for a car manufacturer and not vendor for a part.

No car manufacturer will be so lucky as to produce anything closer to 0 ppm anytime soon because a car is an aggregate of millions of parts of all type. And even if one vendor is not at 0 ppm level the car as a whole will not be at 0 ppm. For a car manufacturer to attain 0 ppm defect levels first of all its vendors will all have to become 0 ppm certified and then the manufacturers own processes have to be certified to become 0 ppm.

I guess you see the point now. Being ebullient about something is surely heady stuff, but not seeing the pitfall in the josh of your ebullience is a little troublesome mate.

Originally Posted by srh

Did SRK use this vehicle anytime? or maybe like in the hindi movies, there might be diamonds hidden in the seat cushion. Check it out before selling.

Hey SRH,

Thanks for reminding me dude , I really missed out on that, and I appreciate you knowledge on the Second had car market

[srh]

Another fact is that the ppm figures for a part are based on quality as measured by the QC departments of companies. This might be generally based on a few measured metrics (mostly dimensional). It does not necessarily guarantee functional quality (although closely correlated).

There is a big difference between achieving 0 ppm for a radiator cap and achieving 0 ppm for the whole car. I am sure that most companies are light-years away from achieving that kind of quality.

Originally Posted by Zappo

A single digit PPM figure for defects is really a great achievement and I am sure there are some such top notch Tier-I suppliers who do operate beyond 6σ levels. However you were talking of some stratospheric 0 ppm figure (different from single digit PPM you are now talking) and that too for a car manufacturer and not vendor for a part.

No car manufacturer will be so lucky as to produce anything closer to 0 ppm anytime soon because a car is an aggregate of millions of parts of all type. And even if one vendor is not at 0 ppm level the car as a whole will not be at 0 ppm. For a car manufacturer to attain 0 ppm defect levels first of all its vendors will all have to become 0 ppm certified and then the manufacturers own processes have to be certified to become 0 ppm.

I guess you see the point now. Being ebullient about something is surely heady stuff, but not seeing the pitfall in the josh of your ebullience is a little troublesome mate.

I do agree with you zappo, 0 PPM - its always a fraction. I work with one of the leading automobile components manufactures in europe, we are close to single digit PPM and working towards 0. we measure in DPM as well which we have attained single digits.

[spadival]

My DNB car would NHC. Its not new any more, its fugly and people buy it for its snob value.

[jkdas]

Originally Posted by ajibba

I do agree with you zappo, 0 PPM - its always a fraction. I work with one of the leading automobile components manufactures in europe, we are close to single digit PPM and working towards 0. we measure in DPM as well which we have attained single digits.

Pray that Tata doesnt buy it one day

Originally Posted by jkdas

Indica was sold in Europe. I have seen it in UK, it was called Rover City.

Telcoline ( 307? or so) is used by many govt department in Europe et for it ruggedness/VFM.

Where was Safari 2.2L first launched?

7lac? Come on! this is a automobile forum! We all know you wont get that rate. He sure took you for a ride!

Suman guessd it right, 10years ago was when we had the Estate etc.

jkdas, you got to watch this test drive video of the city rover, done by BBC Top Gear.

YouTube - Top Gear - City Rover Secret Road Test

Govt departments in europe using this one??Can you precise me where I can find these

I dont know about the launch for Safari 2.2 in UK or europe- do you know how many of these have been sold?

7 lakhs it is it! I can make out from you profile you are from TVM, you can enquire at Nippon if you wanted to buy a Qualis RS full option 2004 model how much its going to be.