Originally Posted by jkdas

Pray that Tata doesnt buy it one day

I will be more that happy if TATAs buy it.

[agbenny]

Originally Posted by gemithomas

While i completely agree with you i would like to bring in another perspective of this. TATA makes Cheap cars that are cheap to buy and to maintain. Look at cars like the Indica for example. It is bigger than any other car that comes at that price. It is cheaper to maintain. (unless you get stuck with something like our poor Dr.!!) I mean the normal servicing is cheap. Take a look at the Safari. How much more would you have to pay for such look vehicles from another brand? Even the Sumo starts much low than its competitors. The Grande looks awesome and generations ahead when you compare it with the older sumo. Not with an Innova or even a Scorpio.

TATA has been making cars just for around 10-15 years. I guess the evolution has been pretty fast when i drive the new safari 2.2 and the Sumo Grande and the Indica DiCOR. TATA is not a luxury brand. It is a economy brand. Just like you cant expect frills on a low cost airline. I think you should not expect very good fit and finish quality in a TATA.

Believe me. TATA has evolved very much since its original Indica. One thing i like about TATA is its aggressive changing. How many manufacturers give consumers so much changes woth every passing month. Be it looks, or engine technology (even the INdica DiCOR has undergone changes and is not the same DiCOR that was in the Indigo). I remember the 800 and Alto being the same for years. I remember the UNO looking the same ever since it was launched. Even the Palio got its facelift after how many years. What about the Santro. How long has it been like that. Now dont tell me that they are perfect and dont need any changes. Orcourse TATA is camparatively very bad in terms of Quality Consistency. But i guess you pay only that much.

I perfectly understand what you say. Tata is for cheap cars with cheap materials which are easy to own and maintain. Tata does lot of changes, changes on changes etc., I guess They have made over 10 cars (since Tata Estate?) and most of them are in this category.

On the other side Tata dreams of buying global luxury car manufactures. So I am confused about their strategy. I do not see any vision of "Quality" on the cars they sell in India, and dream big to buy Quality luxury cars like Land Rover and Jaguar. Why don't they show their "Think big" strategy on the Indian market and give Quality products.

I am comparing their cars with some of their Indian counterparts, of course, i am not comparing with the Bench marks.

Can't they never dream for Quality cars while Maruthi does that over years in India? Maruthi Suzuki cars not luxury cars comes with a high price. They too are similar.

Tata should also think about Quality cars, not just cheap (quality)cars in the name of VFM.

Can't they?

[agbenny]

Originally Posted by srishiva

Out of the Consumer Reports' list, we have two vehicles in India (Optra and Aveo). Aveo's lack of acceleration and handling might not be a big problem in India. But the Optra has some safety issues listed out inspite of airbags.

I own an Aveo, I had acceleration issues on low RPMs in 2nd gear. But I fee good improvement after 5 regular services, and after driving 19K. But I have other issues in the front suspension, which the local service guys are struggling to figure it out.

[Aditya]

Ambassador - too old
Omni - too dangerous
Sumo (Grande included) - good space, nothing else

[jkdas]

Originally Posted by agbenny

I perfectly understand what you say. Tata is for cheap cars with cheap materials which are easy to own and maintain. Tata does lot of changes, changes on changes etc., I guess They have made over 10 cars (since Tata Estate?) and most of them are in this category.

On the other side Tata dreams of buying global luxury car manufactures. So I am confused about their strategy. I do not see any vision of "Quality" on the cars they sell in India, and dream big to buy Quality luxury cars like Land Rover and Jaguar. Why don't they show their "Think big" strategy on the Indian market and give Quality products.

I am comparing their cars with some of their Indian counterparts, of course, i am not comparing with the Bench marks.

Can't they never dream for Quality cars while Maruthi does that over years in India? Maruthi Suzuki cars not luxury cars comes with a high price. (???) They too are similar.

Tata should also think about Quality cars, not just cheap (quality)cars in the name of VFM.

Can't they?

Did you say quality and Maruti? My 3K old Alto squeaks! And there is a nice thread wherein people are happy posting that their Suzuki/Maruti squeaks after 1000km or so.

Tata is new to this car wala business. Maruti was in this from 1984.
I guess what Tata is trying to do is what Hindustan Motors did They got a deal with Mitsu and after that improved Ambys build quality. Maybe Tata wants to try the same.

Tata wants to sell their products to the entire world and they are good ok with it. What they dont have or miss is brand name which they will achieve with taking over other well known companies who went kaput.

I have a Q. If LL and Jaguar were of great built quality why didnt they sell?

[esteem_lover]

I do hate the TATA vehicles. But i haven't owned one for long enough to pass any judgements. Heard they have improved a lot, but still the looks of the Indica, Sumo (including the grande) really put me off, probably because of the fact that there are tooooo many on the roads.
Love the safari though not sure of its reliabilty & performance.

Originally Posted by bblost

The only car I would not buy is my own, cause I already own it.

personally I don't like this thread!

It has nothing that is not already discussed and contains a great potential for a flame war.
In general, one has a set of constraints and then compares which car matches most of them and buy it.
If he cannot afford the features, then the seconds market is checked.

But to just dismiss a car one does not like and speak ill of it.
I don't like it.

Like predicted before this thread has become a mud slinger & has lost direction.

Originally Posted by carboy

Don't buy for
1) LOOKS
- Fiat Sierra, Petra, Uno
- Tata Indigo
- WagonR
- Santro
2) A.S.S & time to get parts
- Fiat
3) Outrageously expensive parts, service & maintenance
- Skoda (we have got you sucker - you have no option now)

agreed, totally.

Originally Posted by jkdas

Did you say quality and Maruti? My 3K old Alto squeaks! And there is a nice thread wherein people are happy posting that their Suzuki/Maruti squeaks after 1000km or so.

Tata is new to this car wala business. Maruti was in this from 1984.
I guess what Tata is trying to do is what Hindustan Motors did They got a deal with Mitsu and after that improved Ambys build quality. Maybe Tata wants to try the same.

Tata wants to sell their products to the entire world and they are good ok with it. What they dont have or miss is brand name which they will achieve with taking over other well known companies who went kaput.

I have a Q. If LL and Jaguar were of great built quality why didnt they sell?

Jkdas, Landrover is profitable for ford, it is still making profit. Jaguar is loss making - why ?? Jaguar's sales in the, its key market, have fallen one of the reasons being an excessive reliance on parts-sharing with Ford - in particular with the launch of the Jaguar X-type which apparently was based on the Mondeo.

The reason why Ford sold of these is because it needs to get rid of the luxury brand distraction, Aston Martin was sold of recently by Ford.

Why they were for sale together is Jaguar and Land Rover's international distribution networks are closely linked, as are some of their production facilities

Building a brand name by buying companies which go Bankrupt -

The problem is how such an acquisition fits with Tata’s strategy of developing low-cost cars for emerging markets

What is the first thing that comes into your mind when you hear of Landrover or Jaguar - of course - 'British' don’t get me wrong and this is what most of the customers who buy these vehicles take pride off. Landrover is often termed as the " British Beef" locally. There is a cultural issue involved. Tata needs to have a solid strategy in place to boost up the sales figures

[nicejits]

Taking a back seat don’t want to enter into fight, I love this Forum !

[gemithomas]

Great. I see that some brands are yet to enter the list even once. Good going. Thats what quality is all about. Hope they dont enter this list.

[blue_pulsar]

Originally Posted by jkdas

Maruti was in this from 1984.

I remember reading this or hearing this somewhere. Although Maruti were there since '84, because of the Govt intervention, they hardly spent anything on R&D until recently, i.e until cars like WagonR came up. How far is this true?

[Zappo]

Originally Posted by blue_pulsar

I remember reading this or hearing this somewhere. Although Maruti were there since '84, because of the Govt intervention, they hardly spent anything on R&D until recently, i.e until cars like WagonR came up. How far is this true?

Actually the statistical data is correct but the supporting evidence (read reason, Lol) is not. Maruti never spent a dime on R&D till very recently but that was mainly because of Suzuki's guiles and moves.

Initially Suzuki formed a 50:50 venture with GOI. It just wanted to earn some bucks, thats it. Obviously it wanted Maruti Udyog to buy everything from them and pay them besides the huge costs the royalties as well. Then as Indian market started growing and Maruti became the numero uno here a need to innovate and take up its own research work was felt.

However Suzuki understood the potentials of the market very early in the day. It would not have any of that unless they knew they had the upper hand. So they wanted the GOI to offload the majority stake in their favor. GOI was not keen on that for multiple reasons (including the profits that it was earning by virtue of its 50% ownership). So things hit a stalemate and the situation persisted. Result was that till very late in the day Maruti could not even make the gearbox of the 800 locally as Suzuki won't transfer the technology, forget taking up R&D work.

Things changed only after GOI started moving out of the venture and Osamu Suzuki got to have his say as the final word in the company's matters.

Of course today with the company being a total Suzuki venture (its Maruti Suzuki now) things have changed. So indian engineers get to go to Hamamatsu and work on top secret development projects right from scratch.

[drpullockaran]

Originally Posted by carboy

What's are the YARIS features?

I meant that it is listed/featured in the list of cars that were horrid according to them. Scroll through the list.
Bye and wear your seat belts.

[blue_pulsar]

Thanks a ton Zappo, you typed a really long post for me

[kvish]

My Don't buy cars:

1. Mahindra Renault Logan : Grossly overpriced and almost gives a sense of arrogance from company's part. How could they?
2. Mahindra Scorpio : Owners look scarier by the day . Though I must say its a "wouldnt buy" than a "dont buy"

3. Ford Endeavour : TOO BIG

4. Zen Estilo : Its an insult to the zen brand.

[redfire]

My previous car was an Indica V2 DLS, owned it for almost 5 years, but clocked only 36K. Reason - its not a fun to drive car. Though, due to low amount of KMs clocked, it didn't made a big dent in my pocket, but the quality and fit / finish was poor. I don't know whats the present condition with Dicor / Turbo and Xeta Indicas. But when compared with others, they always stay behind which is not good. Being the first true Indian car maker, I hope Tata would address it, and hope they are already doing it by progressing on quality side day by day. I have heard inside stories of compromising on cheap products as OEM components by Tata. A trusted source (one of my close friend's friend) who is in this parts business told that a component rejected by MUL for its quality was easily accepted by Tata, for its lower price. I can't reveal the part or friends name though. I really love Tata and hope things will be better soon.