[blue_pulsar]

Originally Posted by rks

I have owned my old Santro (1 lit) for almost 8 years now. Prior to that I have owned a M800 (95 model) for about 5 years. My opinion is that Hyundai already makes cars of oustanding quality, at least for the Indian market.

Please don't compare M800 Vs Santro for Jap Vs Korean(Or did I misunderstand?). M800 is very very old technology. Santro technology is relatively newer.

Whatever said and done, I must say Japanese are great at R&D and inventions.

[rajshenoy]

Bit off topic

but when will we start comparing indian ?

we are more crazy about foreign technology

[amit]

I haven't gone through this entire thread but I have noticed that everytime a Japanese v/s Korean thread/topic comes up, we promptly have people talking about how koreans cars are looked down in US and how Toyota and Honda fare so much better in realiablity studies.

How about checking and comparing how Hyundai fares against Suzuki in US? Or even Mitsubishi?

Note that Suzuki generally finishes at the bottom in US reliablity studies.

[ram_hyundai]

Originally Posted by amit

I haven't gone through this entire thread but I have noticed that everytime a Japanese v/s Korean thread/topic comes up, we promptly have people talking about how koreans cars are looked down in US and how Toyota and Honda fare so much better in realiablity studies.

How about checking and comparing how Hyundai fares against Suzuki in US? Or even Mitsubishi?

Note that Suzuki generally finishes at the bottom in US reliablity studies.

Very true amit,Even i am of this opinion.I feel its always nice to have a comparison in india where we have both japaneese and korean brands.Or it should be korean in korea and japaneese in japan.
ram

[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by amit

How about checking and comparing how Hyundai fares against Suzuki in US? Or even Mitsubishi?

Note that Suzuki generally finishes at the bottom in US reliablity studies.

The only industry wide source (for better or worse) is J D Power Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS). For 2007, Hyundai finished below the industry average, was just behind Chevrolet, tied with Mitsubishi, and was of course significantly ahead of Suzuki (and VW). However, if see the VDS for 2004, Hyundai was 4th from last, while Kia was last. In 2005, Hyundai was below industry, and vastly ahead of both Mitsubishi and Suzuki.

[Ajay_J]

Originally Posted by amit

Note that Suzuki generally finishes at the bottom in US reliablity studies.

Could you please provide some data here. Let us see when and why suzi bottomed out in US.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by Ajay_J

Could you please provide some data here. Let us see when and why suzi bottomed out in US.

Forget figures, there ain't many Suzuki cars in the US (atleast in GA), in the first place. Why bother about figures for a car that is not even to be seen ?

In my many visits there, I would have sighted a couple of Balenos (Esteem there), and an odd Verona or so. Thats about it. Did see some Sonatas etc, but Hyundai also was not really visible there (but saw more of them than Suzuki cars).

For me, a Japanese vs Korean debate is about the quality of their cars in India (where I reside). I don't care about their image elsewhere.

The Korean cars we get here are pretty good and I do see the Koreans catching up with the Japanese fast here. But some areas of possible improvement would be :
1. Put some effort into bettering the FE of their cars (vis-a-vis Jap cars).
2. Getting their upper segment (above C-segment) cars to click here.
3. Long-term reliability to be improved - read lots of serious issues with their cars in 40k kms of usage, which is peanuts in a car's life IMO.

[vasudeva]

Totally OT: Remember the LA riots of 1991 caused by the Rodney King beating. The police chased Rodney King in his white Hyundai for 8 miles because he was presumably speeding. He was chased down past midnight, stopped by 15 white police officers, pulled out of his car and severely beaten by four of them for nearly ten minutes.

[jat]

Before we start comparing, I would like to put few things in different perspective.

1. After WW-II, the Japs were considered of very low quality compared to Europeans makers. Koreans have closed the gap much faster than the Japs were able to do so. (Don't blame Koreans for copying/stealing technology - Japs are more advanced in that)

2. In today's world, due to globalisation, many of the parts may be manufactered in a different country. Also the same OEM may be making parts for Japs as well as Koreans. (Some of the German / Japs / Koreans compnonents are manufactered in India and exported back to them)

3. When comparing cars or technology, we should have some common factors. My RX-100 was driven very rough compared to Bajaj Chetak and hence rattled earlier. So shall I say, Yamaha quality is poor?

Although the Korean on the average may have a lower quality, however as put by GTO, quality offered per Rs 100 or USD 100 is higher than the Japs. Which means that their manufactering quality is atleast better than Japs or Japs are cheating the public (whichever way you take it)

[DocG]

Originally Posted by vasudeva

Totally OT: Remember the LA riots of 1991 caused by the Rodney King beating. The police chased Rodney King in his white Hyundai for 8 miles because he was presumably speeding. He was chased down past midnight, stopped by 15 white police officers, pulled out of his car and severely beaten by four of them for nearly ten minutes.

It's all because he was driving a Hyundai...

NOTE: An example of how driving a Hyndai can be hazerdous to your health

[vasudeva]

As of now, Korean means Hyundai only. (Kia is now part of Hyundai), Daewoo part of GM, and Samsung?.

As I have posted before, of these only Hyundai has achieved some success. Hyundai's independent brand-name strategy led it to aggressively develop indigenous models and technical contracts, as well as R&D. From the early 1960s to the late 1980s, Hyundai introduced 12 models of passenger cars, developing seven of them on its own. On the other hand, neither Daewoo nor Kia had a model of its own.

[amit]

Originally Posted by Ajay_J

Could you please provide some data here. Let us see when and why suzi bottomed out in US.

Suzuki has always finished in the bottom places in US reliablity studies. You can google for this and find out.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that everytime a korean v/s Jap thread starts, people immediately start comparing Hyundai to Toyota and Honda specifically and cite with figures how poor Koreans fare in quality and reliablity. Somehow, the fact that there are other Japanese car makers like Mitsubishi and Suzuki that fare MUCH worse then Hyundai is conviniantly ignored.

We equate Korean to Hyundai, Kia, Daewoo.

But Japanese are equated only to Toyota and Honda. What about Suzuki, Suburu, Mitsubishi?

[simplyself]

What is the connection between Rodney King driving a Hyundai and police officers maltreating him?

[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by amit

Somehow, the fact that there are other Japanese car makers like Mitsubishi and Suzuki that fare MUCH worse then Hyundai is conviniantly ignored.

If you look at the quality rankings and customer perceptions, there is a 2-tier of Japanese carmakers. Honda, Toyota, and to some extent Nissan; and then the rest. These include Suzuki, Mitsubishi, Isuzu, Subaru, Mazda, etc. Amongst the Japanese, Suzuki was rarely known for matching up to the Japanese Big-3. It was also catering to small cars. Its bigger cars have never met much success. Mitsubishi was known to make good cars, but then successive losses over the last six years have taken out a lot away from Mitsubishi (financial position is improving in current year).

[amit]

Originally Posted by vasudeva

If you look at the quality rankings and customer perceptions, there is a 2-tier of Japanese carmakers. Honda, Toyota, and to some extent Nissan; and then the rest. These include Suzuki, Mitsubishi, Isuzu, Subaru, Mazda, etc.

Exactly my point. Why compare Hyundai only with the benchmarks in quality and reliablity?

Amongst the Japanese, Suzuki was rarely known for matching up to the Japanese Big-3. It was also catering to small cars. Its bigger cars have never met much success. Mitsubishi was known to make good cars, but then successive losses over the last six years have taken out a lot away from Mitsubishi (financial position is improving in current year).

Same with Hyundai. They have also just started making bigger cars for US. How many years has Toyota been selling the Camry in US and how many years since Hyundai launched the Sonata? Besides, catering to small cars is no excuse for poor quality. A Suzuki Swift can be better in quality then a Sonata or even a Camry can't it? Mitsubishi's quality taking a hit due to financial losses. Ok, in that case, Hyundai was not a cash rich company as Honda or Toyota so they couldn't spend as much as them for R&D. Therefore, Hyundai quality is not as good as Honda or Toyota. Seems fair to me.

Even Fiat was almost bankcrupt in Europe a few years back. Why were we not as forgiving to them when they were rated below industry standard in India?

This doesn't seem fair to me. If it's Japanese, we find excuses for their poor quality. If it's non-Japanese, we go ballastic for bad quality.