[snaronikar]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

How I would wish Tatas headed for Vizag, for a change. It's got ports, steel plant and NTPC power unit . What more do Tatas need? Oh, BTW, since it is all back to square one again, launch of Nano would be pushed back by at least 6 months.

Tata's has just suspended the operations there from 28/08. They have not yet pulled out. Nano's launch willnot be delayed .Nano's are being produced in their Uttarkhand plant. Around 5000 nos are ready. This plant can support to produce around 40K/annum of Nano's.

Hence there won't be any problem in launching. The problem will be in catering to the public demand after launch. It is for this thng, the tatas are much worried about.

[snaronikar]

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

Hopefully this will teach industrialists a lesson. Deal directly with farmers and not with govt / brokers.

What do you want the Industrialists to learn from this? Deal directly with farmers and go where? Lets say, if an industry wants to build any plant and they require around 500 acres of land. Do you think they will go and negotiate with all the 500 farmers owning the land? Its utter waste of time for them. For facilitating this, the govt or the brokers will come into existence. But what they can do is they have to make representatives of farmers to be a part of that discussions which they did not do this time.

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by snaronikar

Do you think they will go and negotiate with all the 500 farmers owning the land?

Why not? India is a free country and NO BUSINESS should be able to grab somebody's property by dictating terms.

How about 1800 farmers coming together and building SEZ on 2,400 acres ?

Thats the way to go:
Farmers to set up own SEZ near Pune -The SEZ Saga-The Times of India

In this way Industry gets land, and farmers wont loose income either.

[zenx]

Originally Posted by DCEite

I am sad because the damn Haryana Governement can't provide electricity and water to residential areas, so the coming of factory will further put more pressure on the resources here, and in the end, its the Gurgaon resident who suffers.

Hmmm, you've obviously never been to Jamshedpur Before I left the place, we always drank water from the tap, never saw an open drain or an overhead wire, and power cuts were rare. The townships have a captive power plant all to themselves - and over a hundred villages around have been "adopted", plus the rest of the city get the sadak-bijli-paani benefits anyhow. Oh yeah, the water was free, and the electricity subsidized. The user charges are higher now from what I hear, but nowhere near "real world" rates.

If you read what J.N.Tata wanted - you'll see a vision that was much larger than measurable from the ouput of the industries they create, or the profits they generate. Sure, those are important, but equally important is the overall transformation they bring about.

I can only sympathise with WB and especially those around Singur. If they'd engaged the Tatas reasonably, without hostility, they might've even reached a decent decision, whether for agricultural support or better rates. The Tatas have rarely bowed to a hostile stance, and were hardly about to get into that here.

DCEite, I'd guess Gurgaon would have been better, not worse, with the Nano plant around - even in the medium term.

[hkanitkar]

Originally Posted by snaronikar

Do you think they will go and negotiate with all the 500 farmers owning the land? Its utter waste of time for them. For facilitating this, the govt or the brokers will come into existence.

Originally Posted by snaronikar

Nano's launch willnot be delayed .Nano's are being produced in their Uttarkhand plant. Around 5000 nos are ready. This plant can support to produce around 40K/annum of Nano's.

Well, whether it be 500 Acres or 5 acres, govt, brokers and politicians as well, come into picture automatically nowadays. You can't run, you can't hide !

It has really become difficult to deal with the farmers directly, if at all you wish to buy their land - for any purpose for that matter.

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

(Former) farmland will lie vacant for a few years. It will go out of news and then will be acquired by ( former ) Chief minister's son for opening a leisure resort

IMHO, that is exactly what just might happen. That too with Mamta Banerjee in power at that time !

Originally Posted by MontyKING

for MB

Nopes. She hasn't won anything, but lost a lot for WB and singur. And she knows it very well.

[Aditya]

I feel, the West Bengal Govt. is to be blamed for this fiasco.
If the land was fertile yielded good crops, they should have given Tata Motors another piece of land. If they had to give this land, they should've given the farmers enough compensation, so that nobody would've raised the issue at a later date.
If Tata was indeed bribing them, they should have firmly said no. It was in their hands.
Right now, everyone has suffered. The people of WB have lost a good opportunity, the farmers' fate is undecided, Mamta's image (also the Govt.'s image) has taken a beating, Tata Motors has also lost quite a lot. WB as a state will not attract other investors from now.

[Rahulkool]

Originally Posted by zenx

Hmmm, you've obviously never been to Jamshedpur Before I left the place, we always drank water from the tap, never saw an open drain or an overhead wire, and power cuts were rare. The townships have a captive power plant all to themselves - and over a hundred villages around have been "adopted", plus the rest of the city get the sadak-bijli-paani benefits anyhow. Oh yeah, the water was free, and the electricity subsidized. The user charges are higher now from what I hear, but nowhere near "real world" rates.

If you read what J.N.Tata wanted - you'll see a vision that was much larger than measurable from the ouput of the industries they create, or the profits they generate. Sure, those are important, but equally important is the overall transformation they bring about.

I can only sympathise with WB and especially those around Singur. If they'd engaged the Tatas reasonably, without hostility, they might've even reached a decent decision, whether for agricultural support or better rates. The Tatas have rarely bowed to a hostile stance, and were hardly about to get into that here.

DCEite, I'd guess Gurgaon would have been better, not worse, with the Nano plant around - even in the medium term.

i can vouch for that mate ..... i have gone to jamshedpur many times in 90s and that place was amazing, road were very wide and clean. no electricity problem. tatas have even made a bridge in jamshepur on a river, my dad used to say that before the bridge it was very diffucult to cross the river as earlier one was too narrow .....

well TATAs has done a lot of things for the country and they deserve better than this, even the nano project is very important for the TATA as well as for the country, think how many people will be proved wrong who said nano can't be produced for that price. it will do a lot for our country image but who will tell that to these politicians

[rahuldeodhar]

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

Why not? India is a free country and NO BUSINESS should be able to grab somebody's property by dictating terms.

Sorry to interrupt Netfreak, Indian government does not acknowledge property rights. In fact the founders made it a fundamental right - but later amendment removed it from being a fundamental right. There are lot of development experts wanting India to honour property rights.

What difference does it make?
If you were evicted from your property forcefully, you can go to high court directly and get the process stayed. No longer.

So were Tata wrong?
As much as I know Tata's they are pretty upright organization. In fact government officers often do not ask bribes from Tatas because they know its not going anywhere. Its just what some government officials told me.

So what about videocon?
Videocon get 500 acres (or was it 400 acres) at 50 Rs per square meters for SEZ in Maharashtra. Trust me they are not going to make power plants and general development the way Tatas may have in West Bengal. Who is paying for it? You and me! with all the taxes they cut.

Coming back to the Nano..
Ratan Tata mentioned that unlike normal manufacturing he would like Nano to be botique manufactured by satellite manufacturing units. Tata will supply kits and these guys will manufacture. Tata will guarantee quality check. I dont know of anyone else in car industry who thinks like this.

The amount of entrepreneurship this would create is simply awesome. That man has VISION unlike Ms Mamta and her lot.

[greenhorn]

@ rahul, I think netfreak is still correct. only the govt can take your land.
India, Right to Property and the Legislative and Judicial Attitude

an interesting link google threw up

[druva]

yes. and it was the WB govt giving the land to TATAs. I sincerely wish they move out to another state and teach the politicians a lesson

[snaronikar]

Originally Posted by druva

yes. and it was the WB govt giving the land to TATAs. I sincerely wish they move out to another state and teach the politicians a lesson

. Till now they have not decided only suspended the operations. And if they go as per Plan B, they will be pulling out of WB keeping all the politicians, MB and farmers the red faced to decide on the fate.

Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay

Why not? India is a free country and NO BUSINESS should be able to grab somebody's property by dictating terms.

How about 1800 farmers coming together and building SEZ on 2,400 acres ?

Thats the way to go:
Farmers to set up own SEZ near Pune -The SEZ Saga-The Times of India

In this way Industry gets land, and farmers wont loose income either.

This might be one off case. The business house cannot negotiate with each one of the farmers. Then insteadof manufcturing cars, they will keep on negotiating with the farmers forever.

[MontyKING]

The decision by TATA group to suspend all work at its plant at Singur has evoked sharp reactions from the industry.

The political class, on the other hand has been rather ambivalent on the matter. Union Commerce Minister Kamal Nath, who so far has maintained that this was an internal matter of the West Bengal Government, is now making an open offer to the TATAs to come and set up the plant to manufacture Nano in Madhya Pradesh.


Kamal Nath's U-turn, invites TATAs to MP

[MontyKING]

The Left Front has worked out a special compensation package to accommodate farmers who had not accepted compensation for land acquired for the 997-acre factory complex to build Tata Motors’ Nano at Singur, 40 km from Kolkata.

The package was likely to offer a bundle of options like enhanced compensation, annuity scheme and some sort of job assurance for one member from each distressed family.

The issue of alternative land could also be brought to the negotiating table if the opposition wanted it and the government would try to accommodate that request to the extent possible, said a source.

The Left Front also formally indicated its acceptance of the settlement proposal suggested by Governor Gopal Gandhi though it reserved comment on the presence of a neutral mediator.

Left sweetens Singur package

[ranc]

Just saw breaking news on TV, one farmer has commited suicide because Tata's have suspended work in the plant. He wanted the plant to come up there itself.

The political drama is getting confusing day by day. The best way to do it was to compenstae farmers with some money and the same amount of land elsewhere. This way they dont loose out on their livelyhood.

[Glass]

Originally Posted by ranc

Just saw breaking news on TV, one farmer has commited suicide because Tata's have suspended work in the plant. He wanted the plant to come up there itself...

Phew, look who finally suffers for the politicians' dirty games!