[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by humyum

Totally, totally agree, Maruti 800 for 10 years, Throughout india travelled including Ladakh Leh and when i sold it off it went for a whooping 60 thousand bucks.

Well it doesnt really matters for how long you had the car... what matters is how many kilometers you drove it.

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

my own uncle runs a tourism business & he has lots of indicas under service. but he keeps every car for 2-3 years & then sells off. reason? after a certain span, indicas give a lot of trouble & are more expensive to maintain.

Exactly my point. After a particular span, indica's are prone to a lot of issues. And I would take the advice of the mechs I know personally who work on these cars day in and day out than sit here and argue with a bunch of biased people who can't look beyond the bubble they are living in. I request you guys to drop by a good, competant local garage and ask around a few questions.

Btw, I do own a Swift Vdi, I HATE the car, specially the crappy engine. My frustrations are well documented in several threads on the forum. I prefer calling a spade a spade.

How many cab guys even realize they are having a loss of power? How many even know they have white smoke coming out of their exhausts? I have seen 100's of indica's belching out white smoke yet they keep driving. How many even notice that the engine is drinking oil? They are just driven and driven until they stop completely (something we discerning lot can't do). Reliability issues doesn't mean a car has to stop moving completely, so you can have reliability issues and yet continue to ignore it and keep driving. That doesn't take away the fact that there IS an issue.

I come from a slightly different school of thought. I have seen 100's of esteems being tortured on rally stages year after year. And I can tell you, a single rally season is like abusing a car for 5yrs. Yet those cars run for 3yrs without an engine rebuild. Mostly only suspension is changed. Why do you think the Indica never made it big on the rally scene? We all have seen pics of the flashy yellow indica that was supposed to hit the rally scene many many years ago. It was the reliability factor that kept them at bay.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

indica is popular in the taxi segment because it is cheap, spacious & fuel efficient, thats it. my own uncle runs a tourism business & he has lots of indicas under service. but he keeps every car for 2-3 years & then sells off. reason? after a certain span, indicas give a lot of trouble & are more expensive to maintain.

Do you have any idea how many kilometers Indica's rake up before they are 2-3 years old? Besides if they are so unreliable why do people keep on buying them? Just because its cheap? Going by that logic Tata Sumo shouldnt have been a failure when Qualis came. The mantra is reliable, cheap, fuel efficient in the same order.

Originally Posted by raj_5004

about which maruti car can take abuse... maruti 800! saying this from own experience.

Aha.... care to elaborate what abuse can the 800 take.

Originally Posted by raj_5004

if you think that i am against tata & hence saying this, i cant help it. you simply cannot take criticism for something you like. if its boring & irritating for you, simply avoid my post! no point in asking me to stop simply because you dont agree to my views.

No I DO think you are against Tata and your opinions are biased which dilute the value of the forum and thats what I care about... not you.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Exactly my point. After a particular span, indica's are prone to a lot of issues. And I would take the advice of the mechs I know personally who work on these cars day in and day out than sit here and argue with a bunch of biased people who can't look beyond the bubble they are living in. I request you guys to drop by a good, competant local garage and ask around a few questions.

Btw, I do own a Swift Vdi, I HATE the car, specially the crappy engine. My frustrations are well documented in several threads on the forum. I prefer calling a spade a spade.

How many cab guys even realize they are having a loss of power? How many even know they have white smoke coming out of their exhausts? I have seen 100's of indica's belching out white smoke yet they keep driving. How many even notice that the engine is drinking oil? They are just driven and driven until they stop completely (something we discerning lot can't do). Reliability issues doesn't mean a car has to stop moving completely, so you can have reliability issues and yet continue to ignore it and keep driving. That doesn't take away the fact that there IS an issue.

I come from a slightly different school of thought. I have seen 100's of esteems being tortured on rally stages year after year. And I can tell you, a single rally season is like abusing a car for 5yrs. Yet those cars run for 3yrs without an engine rebuild. Mostly only suspension is changed. Why do you think the Indica never made it big on the rally scene? We all have seen pics of the flashy yellow indica that was supposed to hit the rally scene many many years ago. It was the reliability factor that kept them at bay.

Brilliant post.... takes the cake.... any car who hasnt been in rallying isnt reliable which means more than 90% of the cars sold in India are unreliable. Anybody who told you to be yourself simply couldn't have given you worse advice.

[greenhorn]

we've been through this entire debate before
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...arsh-tata.html

suggest we stick to comparing the above cars

Why do you think the Indica never made it big on the rally scene? We all have seen pics of the flashy yellow indica that was supposed to hit the rally scene many many years ago. It was the reliability factor that kept them at bay.

I have a feeling it was more due to the overly thick sheet metal that tata uses on their cars. Makes the car pretty sturdy, though not as much as a palio. Good for a family car and deadly indian highways ( as i found out last week), but not too good for racing. I think its for the same reason the palio never made it to racing, despite having the most powerful engine around

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Brilliant post.... takes the cake.... any car who hasnt been in rallying isnt reliable which means more than 90% of the cars sold in India are unreliable. Anybody who told you to be yourself simply couldn't have given you worse advice.

The point I am trying to make is about the abuse a car can take (since someone here said not a single car from MUL can take that kind of abuse). Since you were the first one to mention the word "abuse" the Indica's can take. You don't seem to be getting the point, I wont waste my time arguing with you.

@ Greenhorn: Its not just the thick metal. By that logic, the legendary OHC Vtec would not have been discontinued too from the INRC.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Do you have any idea how many kilometers Indica's rake up before they are 2-3 years old? Besides if they are so unreliable why do people keep on buying them? Just because its cheap? Going by that logic Tata Sumo shouldnt have been a failure when Qualis came. The mantra is reliable, cheap, fuel efficient in the same order.

in 2-3 years, they run for around 1 lakh kms. agreed. but so what? there are much better examples of cars more than 1.5 lakh kms running happily without any issues.
lets face it, indica is built CHEAP & does give a lot of issues. atleast i have faced many in my 2002 model indica. we had kept it for personal use. no rough treatment & all regular services on time. still we had to sell it in 2005. reason? you know it!

Aha.... care to elaborate what abuse can the 800 take.

my 2002 model indica was sold in 2005 as said. we have a 1995 model 800, still with us. me, my brother & all my cousins learnt driving in it & so it has met with numerous shunts! apart from changing clutch plates, there is nothing wrong with the car.

No I DO think you are against Tata and your opinions are biased which dilute the value of the forum and thats what I care about... not you.

why should i be against tata & be biased for maruti? i dont own a vista nor do i own a swift! anyways, if you still feel so, i cant help it. your choice.

[DCEite]

Aha.... care to elaborate what abuse can the 800 take.

Don't ever say that, ET. 800, specially the pre-MPFI(carb) ones can take a LOT of abuse. And i am saying this from personal experience. Our 800 went on to 1lac kms, 10 yrs, been to various places in Rajasthan and Punjab, and guess what? We sold it to an independent dealer for 65k. Beat that!

Regarding the debate going on wrt Indica vs others, the issue is not, and never was, how many kms the car can take, but how many problems the car is prone to face, in that lifetime.

[gaurav_chopra04]

Originally Posted by DCEite

Don't ever say that, ET. 800, specially the pre-MPFI(carb) ones can take a LOT of abuse. And i am saying this from personal experience. Our 800 went on to 1lac kms, 10 yrs, been to various places in Rajasthan and Punjab, and guess what? We sold it to an independent dealer for 65k. Beat that!

Dont know if My 800 can beat that but its a 2000 model 5 speed mpfi.. and has done 147,000 in 9 years... engine still doing good.. no suspention change.. just the front springs got changes at 120k..clutch got changed at 95k..rest still doing fine... though the car has mostly been driven in Delhi.. still can be sold for about 50k.

[sanagg1]

After nearly a span of 6-7 yrs Swift following =155
After one year of launch Vista following =169

Despite and Inspite of every thing said above regarding reliability et al.
cheers

[discoverwild]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

How many cab guys even realize they are having a loss of power? How many even know they have white smoke coming out of their exhausts? I have seen 100's of indica's belching out white smoke yet they keep driving. How many even notice that the engine is drinking oil? They are just driven and driven until they stop completely (something we discerning lot can't do). Reliability issues doesn't mean a car has to stop moving completely, so you can have reliability issues and yet continue to ignore it and keep driving. That doesn't take away the fact that there IS an issue.

That's the general problem with taxi driven Indicas. They are abused. So you abuse a car to no end, and expect it to survive forever?

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

I come from a slightly different school of thought. I have seen 100's of esteems being tortured on rally stages year after year. And I can tell you, a single rally season is like abusing a car for 5yrs. Yet those cars run for 3yrs without an engine rebuild. Mostly only suspension is changed. Why do you think the Indica never made it big on the rally scene? We all have seen pics of the flashy yellow indica that was supposed to hit the rally scene many many years ago. It was the reliability factor that kept them at bay.

You conveniently forgot additional welds, body strengthening and roll bars.

[discoverwild]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

my own uncle runs a tourism business & he has lots of indicas under service. but he keeps every car for 2-3 years & then sells off. reason? after a certain span, indicas give a lot of trouble & are more expensive to maintain.

about which maruti car can take abuse... maruti 800! saying this from own experience.

if you think that i am against tata & hence saying this, i cant help it. you simply cannot take criticism for something you like. if its boring & irritating for you, simply avoid my post! no point in asking me to stop simply because you dont agree to my views.

So why doesn't your uncle run M800 as taxis? Ask your uncle to be religious about oil and filter changes to the Indicas and he wouldn't have to replace them every 2-3 years. Also instruct his drivers not to ride the clutch.

Request to Mods: Please merge this with my earlier post as I am unable to do that due to some error.

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by discoverwild

You conveniently forgot additional welds, body strengthening and roll bars.

Roll cages, chassis strengthening comes standard with all INRC cars including the few Indica sports that were built. As for the allowed mods, unless you are running Group N+, one is allowed intake, exhaust, suspension mods. I am just talking about the parts that are replaced on a regular basis (suspension, lower arms, driveshafts owing to the excessive abuse they take on nearly non-existent roads). The point is if Indica's are so reliable, why was the plan to homologate them to the INRC dropped? They are cheap, handles brilliantly (by reports by some members here), reliable (we have members vouching here again). Don't you think it would be the perfect platform for rookies? Yet they all prefer esteems. There was a clear plan to introduce the Indica's, but the plan never saw the light. Some food for thought?

I haven't seen any try out a swift yet for the INRC. I hope they don't. Normal roads are enough to see that car disintegrate. Wonder what torture the driver will have to face listening to the rattles of the swift and see each part fall off .

Originally Posted by discoverwild

So why doesn't your uncle run M800 as taxis?

Because the indicab is a lot more spacious, comfortable? Comes with a slightly more powerful engine and AC? So by your logic Amby's were the most reliable cars ever built in the world?

[discoverwild]

So why do you want to compare a regular road-going car with that built for a rally and talk about reliability?

Did I mention Amby's anywhere? Also, if you didn't know the ambys were the first taxis. And the Indicab took its place because they were more reliable, hence cheaper to maintain as well.

[rrsteer]

I think we can and should call a spade a spade. I think Tata cars are more talented than similar products offered by the competition, but on an average they are not as reliable. My close friend has a Vista and my girl friend has a Swift. To me overall considering all the parameters Vista is a much better car than Swift.

But if I were a marginal buyer, probably I may end up buying the Swift because I may never know if the Vista sold to me was manufactured with proper quality control or in other words will it be a reliable car to own?