[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

with that they offer poor reliability & pathetic after sales service as standard feature in their cars! what value for money! atleast maruti offers complete customer satisfaction.

I am not in support or against whatever that has been said in this thread in the last few posts but I am very interested in this bit about poor reliability and pathetic after sales. Why do you think Indica is so popular in the taxi trade.... if it was so unreliable no matter how cheap, people wouldn't have bought it in such large numbers. Besides tell me one maruti hatch which can take half as much abuse as the Indica takes day in and day out at the hands of unruly drivers and still run without proper maintenance.
In anycase you should put your prejudice against Tata to rest, its getting really boring now and very irritating.

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

I am not in support or against whatever that has been said in this thread in the last few posts but I am very interested in this bit about poor reliability and pathetic after sales. Why do you think Indica is so popular in the taxi trade.... if it was so unreliable no matter how cheap, people wouldn't have bought it in such large numbers.

I don't know what you have seen, but I have a few friends who have local garages and they all are always swarmed with Indica's for reliability issues. Most taxi drivers don't take their cars to showrooms for repairs or post up their experiences like we do.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

I don't know what you have seen, but I have a few friends who have local garages and they all are always swarmed with Indica's for reliability issues. Most taxi drivers don't take their cars to showrooms for repairs or post up their experiences like we do.

Ok let me take an example to make myself more clear... my office Indica cab gets rs 400 for picking us up from home and then dropping us to office. If for some reason he fails to appear or the car breaks down we are free to come to office by any means we like which most of the times is the radio taxi @ rs 15 a kliometer. Imagine 35 kms distance one way and 4 people to pay for if his car breaks down. I dont think anyone would take that risk with a so called unreliable car.
Secondly, do you have any first hand experience on how are they treated?They are taken for service or repairs only when they are on the verge of breaking down. Heck one of my cab driver was running the poor thing on a torn air filter!
They run all day without a break and the engine is never turned off because they also play air conditioned room for the driver to sleep in it! You have to see how much abuse they take to actually appreciate it. The only complain that I have mostly heard about Indica is the alignment and camber, especially in case of rear wheels. But then that is to be expected if you fly over varying sized potholes so that you could make to office on time.
To put it simply, there is no other car for the price which can do all this and then survive to tell the tale.

[mclaren1885]

My first car was a Indica V2. So I do know what kind of abuse it can take. The sole reason we sold of our Indica at 50k kms was looking at the number of cars that had engine issues that used to swarm my friends garages (3 in total). Mostly cabs. One day dad spoke to the mech and decided to sell the car off immediately before he had to spend on the car. That is how I ended up with the zen. Again I am talking from my personal experience, this was back in 2005. Today, I have a baleno that is lying unused for a year and a half. Yet none of us think of disposing it off. There was no way I could convince dad to hold onto the Indica, after what he had seen with his own eyes. Like I mentioned earlier, this was back in 2004-2005, I am sure things at Tata must have improved a lot since then.

[rageshgr]

The Grand Punto! how can we miss the actual company that makes the MJD?

[sanagg1]

@ humyum
OT please.
Eat and Drink Swiftly, is not what the doctor advises.
Life after all is NOT so Simple.

cheers

[greenhorn]

after owning an indica for over 2 years, i've certainly not had any reliablity issues. Anything that went wrong is because of the TASC's incompetence

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by ashwinpak

Maruti and reliability? You must be kidding. My first car was an Omni, bought off the showroom, and it has broke down on the road at least half a dozen times. The distributer used to conk off repeatedly, and MASS at 3 different towns could not figure out why. Later the alternator had to conk off, for the problem to be zeroed down to the bad alternator.

i said indicas are unreliable & maruti offers better customer satisfaction, which means maruti's A.S.S is much better than tata's. the same can also be said about reliabilty.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

I am not in support or against whatever that has been said in this thread in the last few posts but I am very interested in this bit about poor reliability and pathetic after sales. Why do you think Indica is so popular in the taxi trade.... if it was so unreliable no matter how cheap, people wouldn't have bought it in such large numbers. Besides tell me one maruti hatch which can take half as much abuse as the Indica takes day in and day out at the hands of unruly drivers and still run without proper maintenance.
In anycase you should put your prejudice against Tata to rest, its getting really boring now and very irritating.

indica is popular in the taxi segment because it is cheap, spacious & fuel efficient, thats it. my own uncle runs a tourism business & he has lots of indicas under service. but he keeps every car for 2-3 years & then sells off. reason? after a certain span, indicas give a lot of trouble & are more expensive to maintain.

about which maruti car can take abuse... maruti 800! saying this from own experience.

if you think that i am against tata & hence saying this, i cant help it. you simply cannot take criticism for something you like. if its boring & irritating for you, simply avoid my post! no point in asking me to stop simply because you dont agree to my views.

[HIGHNOON]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

I don't know what you have seen, but I have a few friends who have local garages and they all are always swarmed with Indica's for reliability issues. Most taxi drivers don't take their cars to showrooms for repairs or post up their experiences like we do.

Most taxi fellows / tour operators are rash drivers and more often than not do not follow any service schedules. Also this tendency to carry on with small niggles which develope into big problems increases with i.e. after warranty. Add to that the high mileage. And you have a recipe for reliability issues.
Importantly Indicas ferrying BPO employees are known to do 1 lac km or more in a year and take serious abuse on terrible Mumbai roads and in the hands of jet pilots who have timelines to follow.
In my own ownership of Indica Na , Indigo Glx , i have not faced any reliability issues barring if a windshield winder change in 30 months can be called that.
Also i am curious whether Maruti cars in the indica price or even higher bracket ( unfortunately none of them fit 5 with reasonable degree of comfort) can take the kind of abuse that taxis / fleet operators can subject their cars too.
I have no prejudice against Maruti.
If maruti had a car giving the same cabin space for the same price , i would most surely go for it over a tata vehicle. Add to that resale of maruti cars. I have seen L O O O O O S E altos without PS sell for higher prices than excellent condition santros, xetas with PS .
I mean who would want to lose their hard earned money on poor resale ?
But the fact remains that maruti just doesnt have anything in my budget for my requirement.
So i might have to settle for A Tata product ( vista ) which suits . Its just as well that it looks better to me than anything maruti has ,seems to give me more features for lowered price tag and feels like it has better suspension setup for my bad back apart from a full 5 seater capability.
I guess i am doomed to live with the other niggles and famous and well documented reliabilty issue.

[sajo]

3,10,000
2,96,000
45,000 (on a car bought in Feb).

These are just some of the odometer readings that I see during my cab commutes to work, which are atleast 1 week per month (if not more).
BTW, I might add, on the first and second figures, that figure was attained BEFORE the odo stopped working (or was disconnected).
And I seldom come across any cab with less than 1,50,000 kms on the clock, even if the vehicles are fairly new.
Have I ever been late to work because of the vehicle's reliability problems ? No.
Does a ride in these vehicles scare me ?
Yes. Partly because the driver is (mostly) a jerk, and the condition of the tyres.

Have had petrol Tatas as family cars, still do. But having also had Marutis (800/Zen) in the past, I can say they they do make for a whole lot more satisfactory experience, inspite of their shortcomings.

[humyum]

Originally Posted by Maverick1977

Humyum - Dude, I have also owned 6 Maruti's for the last 16 years, starting from the Omni & ending with the beautiful Zen. My family is also a very staunch Maruti supporter & believe you me it took a lot of persuasion & explanation when I decided to ditch the Swift in favour of the.owever there was a rational thinking that went into this decision. I will more than agree that the Swift is a fantastic but unpractical car. Its a car for loners & those who want to drive alone. If you are of that type then I am not surprised that U enjoy the Swift.Again, no offence intended whatsoever....

Me too, Maruti 800 for 10 years, zen for 2 and now the swift, Anyway to each to own
Ps: i am not a loner, but i dont like looks of the vista, U dont like the looks of the swift. So i guess we agree to disagree

Originally Posted by harry10

Have you ever driven a Vista or even an Indica V2?
If you had you wont be talking about 'super sharp handling'.
I have driven both along with Swift vdi a lot so i know about the handling part.

Swift is good looking no doubt!
Add a 16-17 inch tyre with those kool looking alloys(which most swift lovers have on their ride) and it makes it look brilliant(i agree) and i like it a lot personally.
However your post suggested that swift looks brilliant and vista ugly(thats what i derived from it).
In that case i may suggest you an immediate need of glasses(and i mean the power ones) because to all the people i have come acrossed on this forum and otherwise had never said Vista looks ugly. No offence!

Yes we cant add the cramped seats and lack of leg room (front and back both) along with lack of any useful feature in a Vista(tata can try though)



Mini Innova - Glasses required again!
From where and how only you can let us know. Seriously.

Uncles car- You will be surprised to know how many 'UNCLES' drive a swift cos of 'Maruti is a reliable bet' mentality(which is right to an extent). If you dont believe me look around when you are on a road to see such 'UNCLES' driving the swift.

How many'young crowd' people buys car is what i really wanna know cos imo the 'young crowd' does not have that much money(excluding the ones who are depending on their parents for their power purchases). Its mostly the Uncles who buy cars.

To make a car affordable to a person willing to use it as a taxi one has to price it correctly. Sadly, Tata did it. A pity actually cos if they hadn't we could have seen the 'super handling swift and ritz(a very practical car imo) doing the taxi duty.

Like someone called a swift ugly in above some posts, I called the Indica ugly. Dont people have choices ?

Yes, i have driven a vista, got one in with a close relative, like the space, like the back seat comfort but thats all I like. Handling bit, Swift all the way.
Uncles car was refered to because of the non sporty looks and not because uncles drive it

We are not a family of 6 footers and range from 5.7nd half me to 5.8 my dad to 5 feet my mom, so rear seat is comfortable enough for us.

And yes swift is affordable enough, for 5.40 on road thane for a VDI with a brilliant torque punching engine being its USP, its every rupee worth it.
Does the indica give the torque punch the swift does ? Its more of a linear power surge and yes this is after driving it. Anyway to each his own again.

Originally Posted by greenhorn

humyum, even between indicas the handling varies. From what I've read, the pre 2002 indicas were the best, followed by the post 2005/6 ones. the 2002-05 ones were too softly sprung, and they were made firmer till 2007, when they were almost as good as the 2002 and earlier ones.

Granted, a swift is still better than the sharpest handling indica, but the indica does have good handling in general, compared to some tall boys and boat like hatches.

And do remember that the swift is priced a segment above the first gen indica. The indica's natural rivals are the estilo and the wagon R, neither of which can be compared here because maruti thinks people who cannot afford 5L+ are unworthy of diesel engines

Agreed, compared to Estilo and Wagon R indica is a sure shot VFM, but reliability And after sales make Estlio and Wagon R masters.

Originally Posted by Trapezio

Swift's good looks?

I think that credit goes to Frank Stephenson. Well, this bloke was a designer for BMW. He is now in Mclaren. He in turn has given credit to Alec Issigonis!

Swift is a good looker. But its heavily inspired. I appreciate the humble Vista with an original identity over the Swift.

Super sharp handling! Well who will give the Swift the 'magic carpet ride'? (I have made up a phrase) Its a balance my dear. Not all are after super sharp handling while commuting bumper to bumper in city traffic.

Yes has mini cooper looks, but so what ?, Magic carpet ride agreed, but in the balance like you said, does reliability, after sales not come in the picture too ?

Originally Posted by vista_qjd

Uncle's car? heheh. i thought M800 was the uncle's car. i must be wrong! Taxi wallahs dont want a swift - because it can barely seat two people
Capable Sales - yea, you need this maruti, because thats how they eventually persuade and convince people to pay a premium for their cars and in return they give you fantastic overpriced service.

Overpriced service

Originally Posted by tortoiseNhare

Over the last one month I have noticed a lot of Indica Vistas on the road in my city. It seems it has now been well accepted.

Yes seen a few in mumbai too, but its more like 2 vistas a day compared to 50 Swifts a day.

Originally Posted by raj_5004

with that they offer poor reliability & pathetic after sales service as standard feature in their cars! what value for money! atleast maruti offers complete customer satisfaction.

please dont say that there is this person & that guy who is not happy with the maruti's A.S.S, there are many exceptions in such cases, but we will look at the majority.

i am not saying that maruti is good or tata is bad. but every individual has different needs from his vehicles. some may need reliabilty, others need space. some need performance, others need features. some need good handling, others need good ride quality.

well, coming back to the topic, i prefer a swift over a vista. reasons, i think the swift looks much better, offers better performance & i find the swift's driving position a lot better than the vista. but all this is just my personal opinion. this does not in any way mean that the vista is a bad car. it just that its the swift which appeals to me. and i will never buy a vista over a swift.

Totally agree!

Originally Posted by ashwinpak

Maruti and reliability? You must be kidding. My first car was an Omni, bought off the showroom, and it has broke down on the road at least half a dozen times. The distributer used to conk off repeatedly, and MASS at 3 different towns could not figure out why. Later the alternator had to conk off, for the problem to be zeroed down to the bad alternator.

Oh, my swift had some issues too but so what ? 99% of people on this forum have had a positive review for the swift.I am the unlucky one like you were the unlucky one.

Originally Posted by arunpn

Surprising despite such criticism of Indica Vista in this forum, most of the users have voted for Indica Vista abd Swift is still lagging at 2nd place. Looks most of people are closet Indica Vista lovers ;-)

Lol, if only half of the graph could translate into sales, vista would not be mr india throughout india ..j/k j/k

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

I am not in support or against whatever that has been said in this thread in the last few posts but I am very interested in this bit about poor reliability and pathetic after sales. Why do you think Indica is so popular in the taxi trade.... if it was so unreliable no matter how cheap, people wouldn't have bought it in such large numbers. Besides tell me one maruti hatch which can take half as much abuse as the Indica takes day in and day out at the hands of unruly drivers and still run without proper maintenance.
In anycase you should put your prejudice against Tata to rest, its getting really boring now and very irritating.

Taxi Trade do not care about power,performance, check out the price of a Indica Non Turbocharged DI engine which Taxis are. Around 3.50 ex showroom. Crude, Powerless and brilliant mileage givers. Hence the oh so popularity in taxi trade.

Originally Posted by sanagg1

@ humyum
OT please.
Eat and Drink Swiftly, is not what the doctor advises.
Life after all is NOT so Simple.

cheers

Eats Roads swiftly, Drinks diesel frugally and the cherry on the cake
MASS is simple. Life cant get this exciting.

Originally Posted by HIGHNOON

Most taxi fellows / tour operators are rash drivers and more often than not do not follow any service schedules. Also this tendency to carry on with small niggles which develope into big problems increases with i.e. after warranty. Add to that the high mileage. And you have a recipe for reliability issues.
Importantly Indicas ferrying BPO employees are known to do 1 lac km or more in a year and take serious abuse on terrible Mumbai roads and in the hands of jet pilots who have timelines to follow.
In my own ownership of Indica Na , Indigo Glx , i have not faced any reliability issues barring if a windshield winder change in 30 months can be called that.
Also i am curious whether Maruti cars in the indica price or even higher bracket ( unfortunately none of them fit 5 with reasonable degree of comfort) can take the kind of abuse that taxis / fleet operators can subject their cars too.
I have no prejudice against Maruti.
If maruti had a car giving the same cabin space for the same price , i would most surely go for it over a tata vehicle. Add to that resale of maruti cars. I have seen L O O O O O S E altos without PS sell for higher prices than excellent condition santros, xetas with PS .
I mean who would want to lose their hard earned money on poor resale ?
But the fact remains that maruti just doesnt have anything in my budget for my requirement.
So i might have to settle for A Tata product ( vista ) which suits . Its just as well that it looks better to me than anything maruti has ,seems to give me more features for lowered price tag and feels like it has better suspension setup for my bad back apart from a full 5 seater capability.
I guess i am doomed to live with the other niggles and famous and well documented reliabilty issue.

Like i said above, it does not cater to BPO's because a swift diesel does not come in their price bracket and not because its not reliable.

[humyum]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

i said indicas are unreliable & maruti offers better customer satisfaction, which means maruti's A.S.S is much better than tata's. the same can also be said about reliabilty.



indica is popular in the taxi segment because it is cheap, spacious & fuel efficient, thats it. my own uncle runs a tourism business & he has lots of indicas under service. but he keeps every car for 2-3 years & then sells off. reason? after a certain span, indicas give a lot of trouble & are more expensive to maintain.

about which maruti car can take abuse... maruti 800! saying this from own experience.

if you think that i am against tata & hence saying this, i cant help it. you simply cannot take criticism for something you like. if its boring & irritating for you, simply avoid my post! no point in asking me to stop simply because you dont agree to my views.

Totally, totally agree, Maruti 800 for 10 years, Throughout india travelled including Ladakh Leh and when i sold it off it went for a whooping 60 thousand bucks.

[rajdoll]

I just don't understand this continuous rant about reliability. I can understand this first batch of Indica's had issues but not after that. It is mostly hearsay and prejudice of people who have not owned it. I have owned it for last 4.5 years and touching 50k, not once it broke down and left me stranded or refused to move. It has started and moved at very first crank day-in day-out. If that is not reliability what else is. Buying Maruti is nothing but herd mentality unless and untill you are looking for that something special which is provided only by a maruti CAR, whereas buying TATA is more practical and value proposition. And let me tell you moving away from herd always requires courage and risk taking abilities and there are always people with those traits, because if that was not the case, there would only be one company in each sector and everbody would be buying their products.

[musicmanaman]

I would take the Vista, as it's got a lot of space inside, is well insulated, ride's recent and is good VFM. The Vista is miles ahead of the V2 Indica.

[greenhorn]

Agreed, compared to Estilo and Wagon R indica is a sure shot VFM, but reliability And after sales make Estlio and Wagon R masters.

humyum, agreed about the after sales, but a similarly treated indica and Wagon R are just as reliable as the other. And the average indica racks up kilometers a lot more than these other hatches.

the reliablity issue is often caused due to negligent ownership, from both the owner/driver's side , or the ***'s side.