[joslicx]

Originally Posted by sachinayak

Fuel prices, then, were regulated (and hence subsidized earlier as you rightly pointed out). They are NOT (at least officially) now. I personally have no issues in government regulating fuel pricing, but when the government claims to have deregulated fuel prices I think we are completely justified in expecting them to walk the talk.

Petrol and Diesel (and ATF as well) prices were deregulated way back in 2002 by Vajpayee govt. But that was reversed when crude prices started spiralling. If the govt of the day had not reversed that policy (it started partially in 2004 and then continued in UPA times) we would have lived in times of very very high petroleum prices in most of last 10 years!

In a way Modi is one of the luckiest prime ministers ever! His era has marked what could be the start of a long period of easy crude prices (barring any extreme geopolitical situations) and hence he could afford to implement diesel deregulation (and possibly other fuels as well in near future). Again deregulation DOES NOT mean govt cannot increase taxes. Also it DOES NOT mean oil companies cannot increase their profit! Yes we can crib about them profiting but they did take big hits for us when the crude prices were high that is true as well! You cannot simply ignore that. Also there is an equally valid case to keep prices high enough not to escalate consumption too much as burning these fossil fuels is simply making this planet hotter and hotter. We will be leaving a really very bad world for our kids in future, we have a responsibility to limit the damage to the minimum really.

[poloman]

Originally Posted by sachinayak

When international crude prices go up, we have to bear with higher prices. Is it so unreasonable to expect lower fuel prices locally when international crude prices have tanked?

If so, government should openly admit that fuel prices are regulated (like many other things). Deregulating fuel prices and not following the same, is plain and simple cheating. Like it or not.

Everyone including me will appreciate low fuel prices. As per some calculations people want petrol around 40Rs now. What that will lead to, no one is bothered. Even now bike is many times cheaper than travel by public transport. People will move in hordes to private transport if petrol prices crash to 40. Car sales will zoom through the roof. Things may remain calm so far as crude remains at current levels. Now imagine crude prices move back to $100. There will be total mayhem.
So it is important to ask the right questions.
Why public transport is not made cheaper when diesel and CNG prices have fallen?
Why restaurants are not cutting prices when LPG and food prices in general have crashed?
Why truckers are not reducing freight charges?
If these things are done the savings to general public will be much larger than that from cutting petrol prices.
If the Govt tries too much to appease people, what is happening currently in Venezuela or Russia will happen in India very soon. An empty fuel tank in your car is much better than empty super market shelves and rationing even for milk and daily staples.

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by poloman

Everyone including me will appreciate low fuel prices. As per some calculations people want petrol around 40Rs now. What that will lead to, no one is bothered. Even now bike is many times cheaper than travel by public transport. People will move in hordes to private transport if petrol prices crash to 40. Car sales will zoom through the roof. Things may remain calm so far as crude remains at current levels. Now imagine crude prices move back to $100. There will be total mayhem.
So it is important to ask the right questions.
Why public transport is not made cheaper when diesel and CNG prices have fallen?
Why restaurants are not cutting prices when LPG and food prices in general have crashed?
Why truckers are not reducing freight charges?
If these things are done the savings to general public will be much larger than that from cutting petrol prices.
If the Govt tries too much to appease people, what is happening currently in Venezuela or Russia will happen in India very soon. An empty fuel tank in your car is much better than empty super market shelves and rationing even for milk and daily staples.

I do agree with what you are saying here. And I do agree with in general with the philosophy that fossil fuels should be priced high since they are a scarce commodity. But is it that noble intention, that is making the govt increase the taxes? Or it is just to get money into their coffers? Are all these justifications written above just to support a govt that one likes? Had people written in similar lines when crude prices were soaring and UPA increased the prices? Hypocrisy?

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

I do agree with what you are saying here. And I do agree with in general with the philosophy that fossil fuels should be priced high since they are a scarce commodity.

All very noble, but the biggest consumer of fossil fuels is the US and they are still burning like crazy. Until they are willing to do something, all this is just fond hype.

[commonman]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

All very noble, but the biggest consumer of fossil fuels is the US and they are still burning like crazy. Until they are willing to do something, all this is just fond hype.

Sir,the saddest part of the story is connecting industrial growth to the usage of fossil fuels. Since the stock market is depending upon "growth" ,which again is output of industries,the entire system is controlled by the consumption oriented market. Since a stock market crash may lead to a crash of the entire system (which need not be so),the government may keep the oil oriented economy running. Once we take agriculture output as the main attribute for growth ,this scenario may change.
The market driven economy, needs a change.

Internationally,the dollar is not losing anything, as it is at 62 Rs per dollar. We can give Petrol at Rs.40 only if we value 1 dollar at Rs.40
Pricing at the level of Rs.55- 60 per liter would be good as of now.
The question here will be where is the money being invested by the government ,which they get by selling fuel at a profit.

[sandeep108]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

All very noble, but the biggest consumer of fossil fuels is the US and they are still burning like crazy. Until they are willing to do something, all this is just fond hype.

While they may be the biggest consumer of fossil fuels, I think the US is certainly not 'burning like crazy'. Their cars are increasingly being mandated to be more and more fuel efficient (which is the way to go here too, rather than have these silly absolute measurement parameters [<4M, >4M, ground clearance, etc.]) and more and more households in the US are trying to move to solar, cars are becoming electric or hybrids, etc. The average MPG in the US has been very steadily climbing over the past several years.

[sgiitk]

Apparently the 5% Import Duty on Crude is still not back!! The ex-petroleum Secretary pointed this out on NDTV Profit this morning. He also reckoned that the subsidy bill will now be miniscule, the price parity is a con. CHe also said that Excise & VAT are easy ways of raising revenue. Once they remove the higher income groups - Tax Payers etc. from the subsidised LPG the subsidy will be even lower.

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by sandeep108

While they may be the biggest consumer of fossil fuels, I think the US is certainly not 'burning like crazy'. Their cars are increasingly being mandated to be more and more fuel efficient (which is the way to go here too, rather than have these silly absolute measurement parameters [<4M, >4M, ground clearance, etc.]) and more and more households in the US are trying to move to solar, cars are becoming electric or hybrids, etc. The average MPG in the US has been very steadily climbing over the past several years.

I have a feeling that long before we have exhausted our fossil fuels, we would have moved to alternate sources.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by poloman

If the Govt tries too much to appease people, what is happening currently in Venezuela or Russia will happen in India very soon. An empty fuel tank in your car is much better than empty super market shelves and rationing even for milk and daily staples.

Please explain connection between lower fuel prices and empty supermarket shelves. I do not get how that would happen. AFAIK, India is not an oil exporting country at all so how would what you said would happen?

[S_U_N]

I am not sure what is the current petrol price in Pune.
Yesterday at an IOCL bunk the price was Rs. 66.xx. However on another HP bunk a couple of days back the price was Rs. 69.15.

[manas27587]

Filled up diesel at an IOC bunk today somehwere between vasai and nalasopara at 54.07.
The pump claimed to have diesel 30ps cheaper than all bunks nearby.
Was apprehensive before filling,
But the indicator has dropped only 1 point after 210kms


Sent from my iPhone using Team-BHP

[Motormania]

Filled up petrol today in Guwahati at an IOCL bunk.

Price - Rs. 61.38/ltr!

Will be still cheaper at around Rs. 58 in the Meghalaya side. Will probably get to know in a day or two.

[humyum]

Originally Posted by manas27587

Filled up diesel at an IOC bunk today somehwere between vasai and nalasopara at 54.07.
The pump claimed to have diesel 30ps cheaper than all bunks nearby.
Was apprehensive before filling,
But the indicator has dropped only 1 point after 210kms


Sent from my iPhone using Team-BHP

Hey be very careful with these 'cheapest' diesel in the area bunks. Last time I filled from one of these on the Gujarat Highway, I ended up filling my fuel filter with a sea of water. Proper proper adulterated fuel these guys sell.

[saket77]

I have a feeling that the development of alternate fuel and sources of renewable energy is dampened by the luxury of readily available excellent fossil fuels.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Apparently the 5% Import Duty on Crude is still not back!!

Spoke up too early. Looks like a 2.5-5% duty is on the cards now. I am sure I did not prompt it!!