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Old 23rd February 2018, 16:00   #6181
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
You don't hike the central excise duty 9 times to offset the price advantage customers would have due to falling crude prices world wide.

This is a typical example of policy paralysis.


Pramod
This is what happens when the taxes are Ad Valorem. When the value of the goods/underlying asset comes down, the tax component would fall. To make up for the revenue loss, Govt. increases the excise duty (projected income will fund the project expenditure).

Take this case for example. You are working in some company X. X is doing well and you are happy with double digit hikes that you get every year. Suddenly, X posts loss. Will you happy with a proportionate reduction in your salary?

PS: I agree it is unfair. I completely support the idea that taxes should come down once the prices increases. Or there should be a flat tax amount on each litre of fuel.

Last edited by ashis89 : 23rd February 2018 at 16:07.
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Old 24th February 2018, 12:57   #6182
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

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Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
Take this case for example. You are working in some company X. X is doing well and you are happy with double digit hikes that you get every year. Suddenly, X posts loss. Will you happy with a proportionate reduction in your salary?
.
You are funny.

Taking your example, the company posts huge profits in the balance sheets year after year. They cut your salary saying something as stupid as increasing their funds for corporate outreach programs, some executives also go public and say it’s to build toilets for the poor.

Doing it once is fine, but doing it 9 times in two years? Come on!

On top of that anyone critiquing this move is called an anti organization and is asked to join the rival company.

PS: All situations and characters are fictional and any resemblance to real situations and characters is purely coincidental.

Pramod

Last edited by pramodkumar : 24th February 2018 at 13:00.
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Old 26th February 2018, 21:17   #6183
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Its funny how educated people still support this daylight robbery. The tax on this product of daily consumption is in the range of 140 percent. That's One Hundred and Forty percent. Yes you read it right. And it is then misutilised to make good the loss to the exchequer courtesy the Lalit's and Nirav's of this nation.
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Old 27th February 2018, 01:38   #6184
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Default The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Agree with @Longhorn and @pramodkumar

Govt. and particularly Finance ministry is supposed to speak only in numbers, not just words. Till date the Ministry has avoided queries on the additional ₹20-25 of amount collected on each litre of Fuel. The purpose, quantum of additional taxes is not known. We do not know, where it is spent. Quantum of Tax can be calculated based on daily sales, but the corresponding expenditure is unavailable.

Last edited by jaaz : 27th February 2018 at 01:43.
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Old 27th February 2018, 08:45   #6185
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

It is equally funny when educated people don't understand how a Govt. functions, what are its revenue sources, what are the expenditures, what is deficit and how it is bridged and so on.

Regarding expenditures, I can see work being done at the ground level, I have seen new toilets being constructed in remote villages which I have crossed during my road trips. I am not affiliated or a supporter of any political party at all. But I appreciate good work or at least, an earnest attempt to do so.

Now coming to the relevant topic - Fuel. Let me share some points.
  • Fuel is a source of pollution.
  • Import of fuel causes trade deficit.
  • Fuel is MOSTLY used by people who can afford to buy it (for farmers, we have subsidies).
  • High fuel prices can cause inflation. But right now, inflation is within limits.

After knowing all the above, why should the Govt. incentivize the sale of fuel? Gone are the days of fuel subsidy which spoilt us. The higher taxes are to discourage people from buying fuel or reducing their consumption, just like cigarettes. If we still want to continue using, we pay slightly more and enjoy redlining our car without any intervention.

Some calculations, assuming heavy usage:

Price of petrol: 76
FE: 10
Distance covered per month: 1000
Fuel: 2000/10 = 100 lits.
Cost: 7600

If price increases by 10
Additional cost: 1000

If I mind this hike in expenditure, I could trim my usage a bit to reduce my fuel bills. If I need it then I will buy it anyhow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by longhorn View Post
Its funny how educated people still support this daylight robbery. The tax on this product of daily consumption is in the range of 140 percent. That's One Hundred and Forty percent. Yes you read it right. And it is then misutilised to make good the loss to the exchequer courtesy the Lalit's and Nirav's of this nation.
Educated people who think we are being robbed, must have a look at this report below. Indian gasoline price ($1.16/L) is almost at par with the global average($1.15/L). There are several countries in the world which are experiencing bigger LOOT.

https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/


Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
You are funny.

Taking your example, the company posts huge profits in the balance sheets year after year. They cut your salary saying something as stupid as increasing their funds for corporate outreach programs, some executives also go public and say it’s to build toilets for the poor.

Doing it once is fine, but doing it 9 times in two years? Come on!

On top of that anyone critiquing this move is called an anti organization and is asked to join the rival company.

PS: All situations and characters are fictional and any resemblance to real situations and characters is purely coincidental.

Pramod
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaaz View Post
Agree with @Longhorn and @pramodkumar

Govt. and particularly Finance ministry is supposed to speak only in numbers, not just words. Till date the Ministry has avoided queries on the additional ₹20-25 of amount collected on each litre of Fuel. The purpose, quantum of additional taxes is not known. We do not know, where it is spent. Quantum of Tax can be calculated based on daily sales, but the corresponding expenditure is unavailable.
Have we ever thought about income taxes and where do they go? We pay a lot more money as taxes every year. It's like Govt. income is directly proportional to our success.

PS: I am a normal IT guy who feels sad or angry when petrol price rises by 50p. But then I think about what I mentioned above and then calm down.

Last edited by ashis89 : 27th February 2018 at 09:02.
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Old 27th February 2018, 10:06   #6186
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
Regarding expenditures, I can see work being done at the ground level, I have seen new toilets being constructed in remote villages which I have crossed during my road trips. I am not affiliated or a supporter of any political party at all. But I appreciate good work or at least, an earnest attempt to do so.
Toilets are being build to improve global rating of the country and not to help the poor. Now there is a marked difference between doing the work and mere publicity. If toilets are being built by petroleum revenues alone, why are we being charged swachh bharat cess? If all the funds from swachh bharat cess alone is used to build toilets, open defecation will be over in a year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
Now coming to the relevant topic - Fuel. Let me share some points.
  • Fuel is a source of pollution.
  • Import of fuel causes trade deficit.
  • Fuel is MOSTLY used by people who can afford to buy it (for farmers, we have subsidies).
  • High fuel prices can cause inflation. But right now, inflation is within limits.
While I agree with your first two points, I completely disagree with your third point. Petrol is filled by middle and lower middle class more.

Diesel is mostly used by transporters(those funky SUVs are very low in percentage when you take in account the whole nation) any hike in diesel prices will increase transportation prices. With high transportation prices agrarian crises has increased further, farmers are unable to transport their produce, not to forget the high cost of production.

Is controlled inflation alone a indicator or a dipstick to measure effectiveness of fuel pricing? This is the propaganda used by Government and is not an accurate way to tell the fuel pricing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
After knowing all the above, why should the Govt. incentivize the sale of fuel? Gone are the days of fuel subsidy which spoilt us. The higher taxes are to discourage people from buying fuel or reducing their consumption, just like cigarettes. If we still want to continue using, we pay slightly more and enjoy redlining our car without any intervention.

Some calculations, assuming heavy usage:

Price of petrol: 76
FE: 10
Distance covered per month: 1000
Fuel: 2000/10 = 100 lits.
Cost: 7600

If price increases by 10
Additional cost: 1000

If I mind this hike in expenditure, I could trim my usage a bit to reduce my fuel bills. If I need it then I will buy it anyhow.
Why are you considering petrol prices alone, talk about the effect of Diesel price rise as well.

Good job comparing cigarettes and Fuel


Quote:
Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
Educated people who think we are being robbed, must have a look at this report below. Indian gasoline price ($1.16/L) is almost at par with the global average($1.15/L). There are several countries in the world which are experiencing bigger LOOT.

https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/gasoline_prices/
Come on, you cannot compare the pricing with other global countries where infrastructure is better, Now to give you an example, Most cities and highways are choked and the amount of fuel burned in traffic jams ensure losses of crores. In countries like Britain and US have amazing infrastructure, you cannot compare fuel pricing with other countries.

And yes all on this forum are educated enough to understand that we are being taken for a ride in the name of building a better nation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
Have we ever thought about income taxes and where do they go? We pay a lot more money as taxes every year. It's like Govt. income is directly proportional to our success.
What is there to LOL about it? The government should be accountable to its citizens and before the budget they should show us how each rupee is spent. This is to be done on a regular basis year on year.

The problem is people are trying to justify things which they do not understand fully.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
PS: I am a normal IT guy who feels sad or angry when petrol price rises by 50p. But then I think about what I mentioned above and then calm down.
PS: You keep saying this, I don't think you mean it.

Pramod

Last edited by GTO : 28th February 2018 at 17:54. Reason: No need to be rude or indulge in name-calling (e.g. keyboard warriors)
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Old 27th February 2018, 11:25   #6187
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashis89 View Post
Regarding expenditures, I can see work being done at the ground level, I have seen new toilets being constructed in remote villages which I have crossed during my road trips.
And you are saying you are educated!

Source: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/62896084.cms

The Petroleum product sale in the month of January is around 1690 crore liters. Petrol + Diesel consumption is around 52%, = 900 crore litres.
Consider Rs 35/- as tax per litre on an average.
That gives a monthly amount of 31500 crores, and yearly Rs 3.78 Lakh crores.

Now, talk about the GST collection of 11 lakh crore per year. Govt may be sitting on a huge bulk amount of money, and making common people fools by citing idiotic slogans and relying on the soft areas.

Abraham Lincoln once said: "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time".

Last edited by romeomidhun : 27th February 2018 at 11:36.
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Old 27th February 2018, 12:03   #6188
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by pramodkumar View Post
What is there to LOL about it? The government should be accountable to its citizens and before the budget they should show us how each rupee is spent. This is to be done on a regular basis year on year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
And you are saying you are educated!

Source: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/62896084.cms

The Petroleum product sale in the month of January is around 1690 crore liters. Petrol + Diesel consumption is around 52%, = 900 crore litres.
Consider Rs 35/- as tax per litre on an average.
That gives a monthly amount of 31500 crores, and yearly Rs 3.78 Lakh crores.

Now, talk about the GST collection of 11 lakh crore per year. Govt may be sitting on a huge bulk amount of money, and making common people fools by citing idiotic slogans and relying on the soft areas.
The problem is Indian banking system is not all in good health with all these scams that the loot and scoot Businessmen managed to conjure. The government simply cannot openly declare that the taxpayers should pay-up to cover up for the current mess the entire banking system is in.

GST has literally nothing to do with simplification of taxation system, but to ensure that it includes more number of tax payers which can be squeezed to extract last penny of tax money. Well if you are salaried class and you are successful, it is an absolute crime to be in India at this moment as literally you will be robbed atleast 40% of your income through tax.

But there are people who still seem to think that the government is for the people. I have literally lost the number of cess' we Indians end up paying. Swachch bharath cess

Last edited by GTO : 28th February 2018 at 17:55. Reason: Quoted post edited
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Old 27th February 2018, 12:11   #6189
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
And you are saying you are educated!

Source: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/62896084.cms

Now, talk about the GST collection of 11 lakh crore per year. Govt may be sitting on a huge bulk amount of money, and making common people fools by citing idiotic slogans and relying on the soft areas.

Abraham Lincoln once said: "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time".
Not sure if I should laugh or cry. I rest my case here.

Please accept my apologies if I hurt any sentiments. Let us hold on to our thoughts and beliefs which we think is right. Sooner or later, the public will know what is going on in the country and then correct their earlier mistakes during the elections.

As for us, let us be petrolheads and discuss automobiles like we have been doing.

Last edited by ashis89 : 27th February 2018 at 12:12.
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Old 27th February 2018, 12:27   #6190
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

I don't mind paying 75 rupees for petrol. It doesn't pinch a person who makes a lac per month. Well, even 40K per month. But do you know that 99.5% of Indians make less than that? So don't judge others by what you earn. People fine with paying half of the price of fuel as taxes should donate half of their salaries to the government. Actually, you can. Try it. You might help the government erase fiscal deficit faster than all these taxes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arunramaswamy View Post
I have literally lost the number of cess' we Indians end up paying. Swachch bharath cess
The whole tax system was a mess. Then somebody came up with the idea of GST. But when it actually came to the implementation part, they again messed it up. Now we have several slabs and numerous cesses. Many SMEs closed down. Ironically, we still haven't stopped looking around for that ray-of-hope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post

Abraham Lincoln once said: "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time".
Actually, you can. All you need to do is to engineer a communal riot.
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Old 27th February 2018, 13:44   #6191
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

If petrol is sold at production costs, all the crowds standing inside the red/blue buses in Bangalore(or any other city) will shift to 2 wheelers - as running cost will come to less than 1 rupee/km, which no public transport can match up with.

I guess I need not elaborate on the mayhem that is gonna cause on our starved roads.

''Be careful what you wish for''
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Old 27th February 2018, 14:52   #6192
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Originally Posted by ramzsys View Post
If petrol is sold at production costs, all the crowds standing inside the red/blue buses in Bangalore(or any other city) will shift to 2 wheelers - as running cost will come to less than 1 rupee/km, which no public transport can match up with.

I guess I need not elaborate on the mayhem that is gonna cause on our starved roads.

''Be careful what you wish for''
"If a car is sold at 1 lac rupees, our roads will be filled with such cars and traffic will be a mess" - one of the common arguments against the Tata Nano project before it was launched.

We all know how that turned out.

Using a car/bike is not always about cost. There's also a time factor. Especially in a city like Mumbai regardless of fuel costs, the trains are the safest bet to make it on time.

On the other hand, some have to use a car just to show their status even if the destination is a stones throw away.

Point being, cost of fuel is not the only factor while using personal transport.
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Old 27th February 2018, 15:14   #6193
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Originally Posted by ramzsys View Post
If petrol is sold at production costs, all the crowds standing inside the red/blue buses in Bangalore(or any other city) will shift to 2 wheelers - as running cost will come to less than 1 rupee/km, which no public transport can match up with.
Nobody is asking to sell the fuel at the cost of production. Rs 10 extra as tax? Fine. Rs 20 as tax? Still fine. But Rs 40? Isn't that daylight robbery?

What these people will do if the crude touches those levels of $120?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzsys View Post
I guess I need not elaborate on the mayhem that is gonna cause on our starved roads.
This is just another justification these employees are giving for not reducing the price - along with citing reasons like electrification, tours, travels, toilets, pollution and cleaning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramzsys View Post
''Be careful what you wish for''
Yes, a mistake that many people did once. And many will continue to do.

Last edited by GTO : 27th February 2018 at 17:40. Reason: Strictly no personal attacks or rude posts please
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Old 27th February 2018, 16:43   #6194
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Moderator note: Please stick to the topic of fuel prices and avoid personal and political remarks that add no value to the discussion and goes against the spirit of Team BHP. Thanks.
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Old 24th March 2018, 14:05   #6195
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Be ready to shell out more for using CNG and PNG from April 1.

Quote:
March 23, 2018, 15:12 IST: Consumers may have to pay more for using natural gas (CNG) and cooking gas (PNG, or piped natural gas) from next month as the benchmark price for natural gas produced from domestic fields is expected to hit a two-year high during the six-monthly revision due on April 1.

The government may raise domestic natural gas price next week to its highest level in two years, a move that will translate into higher CNG price and increase cost of electricity and urea production.

The increase in natural gas prices will mean higher raw material cost for compressed natural gas (CNG) and natural gas piped to households (PNG). It would also mean higher feedstock cost for power generation and manufacturing of fertilisers and petrochemicals
News Source : http://https://energy.economictimes....ril-1/63428865
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