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Old 1st July 2021, 11:06   #7216
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

If the taxes on fuel are used to build better infrastructure, I wouldn't complain. But tell me, why the hell am I paying a toll of ₹1.3/km?

Whether corporate taxes are 25% or 30% won't make much difference today- my hunch feeling is that 90% of businesses are in the red today, especially the MSME sector.
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Old 1st July 2021, 17:37   #7217
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Default Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

India saw 16 fuel price hikes in June 2021. Petrol prices went up by Rs 4.18 and diesel by Rs 4.03 per liter in June 2021.

Excise duty remains the same on July 1 as it was on June 1. Crude oil prices are not expected to fall anytime soon. Value-Added Tax has increased by 99 paise a litre on petrol

The Official Fuel Prices Thread-smartselect_20210701173139_chrome.jpg

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Old 1st July 2021, 17:55   #7218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vharihar View Post
You're probably totally detuned from what's happening in the country, as regards efficient usage of our tax Rupees for a zillion transportation infrastructure works.
Most of the infrastructure projects are built on PPP model and come with perpetual tolls to recoup the costs. Its wishful thinking to connect the excise on fuel with infrastructure but none exists.

On related note, the secrecy around PPP terms, toll term period and how much is recouped till date is mind boggling.
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Old 1st July 2021, 17:59   #7219
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Originally Posted by vharihar View Post
You're probably totally detuned from what's happening in the country, as regards efficient usage of our tax Rupees for a zillion transportation infrastructure works.

I actually feel *2015 - 25* is probably a golden decade in India's infrastructure story. A huge amount of national highway/expressway infrastructure work is in process. Not to mention DFC, metro in *all* Tier 1 and 2 cities and some Tier 3 and 4 cities, and a few others like MTHL, several new airports, lots of rail track doubling and electrification, etc. In no other decade have I seen such a huge transportation infrastructure works in progress. Looking forward to seeing 80% of these complete during 2022 - 2025.
May be I am not aware of the details, you may please educate me.

But I have few queries for the above mentioned big infra projects :
  • what's the current mode of their funding ?
  • Does a big portion of tax collected on fuels goes towards these ?
  • If any of these projects are already paid for by the public by taxes, why to charge tolls at full rate ?
  • Why can't government declare some projects as fully paid by tax payers, so toll rate will be minimal (only for maintenance) ?
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Old 1st July 2021, 18:30   #7220
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I'll answer to the extent I know.

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Originally Posted by AutoNoob View Post
[*]Does a big portion of tax collected on fuels goes towards these ?
I believe all components go into a common pool, viz.: Direct taxes components like income tax, corporate tax etc as well as indirect tax components like fuel tax, etc. If one component has a shortfall (eg. direct income tax has perennially been a shortfall bcoz only a small percentage of people pay taxes in India; and then again, I guess corporate taxes are low this time around due to companies doing not great; to make matters worse corporate taxes were reduced in 2019), then the other components are tweaked to make up for the shortfall in order to meet a certain expenditure target. Of course, if the expenditure targets are reduced, then the tweaking may not need to be done. But I believe this govt has tried to follow the practice of keeping infrastructure expenditure targets unchanged, and this time has also incurred the additional expenditure in the present times due to Covid support.

Quote:
[*]If any of these projects are already paid for by the public by taxes, why to charge tolls at full rate ?
Tolls are charged even in the developed world. The US built its interstate highway system in the 1950's - 1970's, these are untolled. But many of the newer built much after that are tolled. I guess in the Indian model the taxes are used to *build* the infrastructure and the tolls are used to *maintain* it and I guess to also pay back the loans, as in, the loan is passed off to the toll operator. This is my understanding.

Many of these problems would get solved if we had a wider tax net.

Quote:
[*]Why can't government declare some projects as fully paid by tax payers, so toll rate will be minimal (only for maintenance) ?
I don't know, there is historically a lot of opaqueness in this area.
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Old 1st July 2021, 18:39   #7221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vharihar View Post
I'll answer to the extent I know.

Tolls are charged even in the developed world. The US built its interstate highway system in the 1950's - 1970's, these are untolled. But many of the newer built much after that are tolled. I guess in the Indian model the taxes are used to *build* the infrastructure and the tolls are used to *maintain* it and I guess to also pay back the loans, as in, the loan is passed off to the toll operator. This is my understanding.

Many of these problems would get solved if we had a wider tax net.
If the build is done by the taxes and the maintain is done by toll charges, where does the loan come from in the first place? Things are not adding up, right?

To my understanding, most large infrastructure projects are funded using bonds or loans from global developement agencies. The toll is the payback for the bond/loan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vharihar View Post
I don't know, there is historically a lot of opaqueness in this area.
Thats sounds more like convenience.
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Old 1st July 2021, 18:55   #7222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m8002? View Post
If the build is done by the taxes and the maintain is done by toll charges, where does the loan come from in the first place? Things are not adding up, right?

To my understanding, most large infrastructure projects are funded using bonds or loans from global developement agencies. The toll is the payback for the bond/loan.
Many projects take a loan from agencies like JICA, ADB, etc. Eg.: Metro projects in most cities are 20-20 funded by center and state, and balance 60% is in loans (Source: https://swarajyamag.com/analysis/in-...ystem-in-india , where city-wise statistics are listed)


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Thats sounds more like convenience.
True
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Old 1st July 2021, 19:43   #7223
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Originally Posted by vharihar View Post
I understand Johnny's desk is a YouTube channel which was initially a blog originating from India with 107K subscribers. It was started on 03.05.2016. With an estimated earnings of $512.4 per video.

But who exactly is the author of this and other videos?
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Old 1st July 2021, 19:59   #7224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
I understand Johnny's desk is a YouTube channel which was initially a blog originating from India with 107K subscribers. It was started on 03.05.2016. With an estimated earnings of $512.4 per video.

But who exactly is the author of this and other videos?
I don't know. I subscribe to it, as also other infra related channels. I don't know the author personally.

Not sure what you're getting at. You saying these are doctored videos? Or a govt mouthpiece? Well my friend, you're welcome to visit the skyscrapercity.com based threads thay I have itemized in my earlier post, which has thread for worldwide projects, you too can become a member and post. You'll see several pics and videos there by ordinary citizens who are plain and simple infra nerds like me.
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Old 1st July 2021, 20:56   #7225
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Just filled up at 104.96/ltr petrol yesterday. Life time high for me. Power was 108/ltr and was tempted to go for it.
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Old 1st July 2021, 21:41   #7226
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How about we actual tax payers get a refund of the indirect taxes we pay equivalent to the amount paid in income tax ? Wouldn't that be fair for us poor marginalized 2% of India's population ?
It's the least we can expect when we know many "poor" people who earn a decent amount of money and should be paying tax and rich people avoiding tax by using loopholes.
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Old 1st July 2021, 22:33   #7227
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Just to clarify, I don't support these insanely high fuel taxes at all. I got into the discussion only to make a rebuttal to some forummers here who seemed to be saying that the taxes are not used well at all.

I feel the opposition parties should make a strong case using the present fuel prices as an opportunity, to make the govt rollback the taxes, it beats me why they aren't able to do so.

I feel someone should file a lawsuit against the govt demanding explanations. I think someone in Bihar has already done that.

I feel agricultural income should be taxed in an effort to widen the tax net, far too many rich claimed-farmers go scott free without paying taxes. I feel fuel should be brought under GST. I feel the promised "analytics of unexplained large cash deposits in the immediate aftermath of DeMo" should be done and taken to it's logical conclusion culminating in sending violators behind bars and recovering money from them.
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Old 5th July 2021, 21:04   #7228
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Visited a fuel station today after a long time. Petrol rate 103.20/litre and Diesel rate 94.72/litre in Bengaluru. My intention was to refill air, but looking at the prices I have filled up Rs. 500 worth of diesel using reward points of my Citibank Indian Oil credit card in order to bring home that feel good factor
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Old 6th July 2021, 20:50   #7229
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What is happening in India is typical regressive taxation designed by morons. Progressive taxation is possible only if you know whom you are taxing - which is possible only through direct taxes - corporate taxes and individual income taxes. Indirect taxes strain everyone from the rich to the poor, which is why heavy reliance on indirect taxes is perfect recipe to regressive taxation. Add to this, taxing fuel to the order of 300% including import duties is just beyond inhuman and sucking blood from the tax payer. If the govt really believes that taxation is a way of transferring part of wealth from rich to poor, they are basically doing just the opposite. I can't believe that in India, Auto drivers and taxi drivers pay far higher taxes than corporates and rich individuals. Reducing corporate taxes to 22% or so is another example of regressive taxation, when individuals continue to pay upto 30% and 47% if taxable income is more than 1 crore. In short, you can think of milking car buyers thinking that they are relatively rich but should not kill them. If you cut the stomach of a golden egg laying goose, the goose won't lay eggs anymore but will die.
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Old 6th July 2021, 22:34   #7230
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OPEC+ Crisis Deepens As Saudi Arabia Refuses To Budge

Source: NDTV

Quote:
Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates cranked up the tension in their OPEC standoff as the rare diplomatic spat between long-time allies leaves the global economy guessing how much oil it will get next month.

The bitter clash has forced OPEC+ to halt talks twice already, with the next meeting scheduled for Monday, putting markets in limbo as oil continues its inflationary surge above $75 a barrel...

without the extension of the agreement, there's a fallback deal in place -- under which oil output doesn't increase in August and the rest of the year, potentially risking an inflationary oil price spike.
And the moment we thought some relief was in sight, it goes for a toss.
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