[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by shortbread

I know the statement will not go down, but the onus is on individuals to find solutions, maybe it's time to ride a Splendor instead of an RE or a hatchback instead of Safari/Scorpio.

And what should people who already ride a Splendor do?

Oh wait, bicycles - good for the health and the environment.

[anb]

Originally Posted by shortbread

Rest assured, any Indian govt. in power will tax fuel heavily. Taxing fuel is India's most reliable source of income generation. There are no tax evaders/defaulters when it comes to petroleum products. Plus the product is a drain on the exchequer.

There was reduction in corporate tax from 30% to 22% last year. So as to compensate for the reduction in tax collection, government increased tax on poor people. So there are other ways for the government if they want to. It's all priorities of the government. Poor people can't donate to party funds anyway.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by anb

There was reduction in corporate tax from 30% to 22% last year. So as to compensate for the reduction in tax collection, government increased tax on poor people. So there are other ways for the government if they want to. It's all priorities of the government. Poor people can't donate to party funds anyway.

Corporates employ, plus there are better markets with lower taxes out there. Plus we are fleecing honest tax payers, corporates or individuals by pushing them to pay higher taxes when plenty bypass the entire system.

Fuel taxes are fair and fool proof.

The brunt of fuel taxes are proportionally borne, all of India's poor do not have access to their own cars and bikes. They rely mostly on public transport, much of which is subsidised by central and state governments.

It's biggest disadvantage is it pushes inflation higher, that I agree. Traders, transport companies, fleet owners pass the cost onto consumers.

But the biggest punishment from fuel taxes fall on PV owners. Larger the vehicle/travel the more painful it will be.

[anb]

Originally Posted by shortbread

The brunt of fuel taxes are proportionally borne, all of India's poor do not have access to their own cars and bikes. They rely mostly on public transport, much of which is subsidised by central and state governments..

May I know what subsidy does the government provide to public transport? Today even a platform ticket cost Rs.50. Price of everything depends upon diesel price. Hike in diesel prices cause increase in transportation and production cost, results in increase price of all the commodities. Those poor people, who doesn't even have acces to bikes, won't have enough money to buy commodities at an increased cost. Actually those poor people will suffer the most.

If the govt cannot find tax invaders, it's the governments fault. The government should accept their failure to find the tax envaders and resign.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by anb

If the govt cannot find tax invaders, it's the governments fault. The government should accept their failure to find the tax envaders and resign.

Simply an emotional statement because the country needs to keep running and cannot come to a standstill.

Those who evade taxes are dodging responsibility. Successive governments have failed to do this, many within it can be accused of the same.

Fortunately fuel taxes does not have loopholes.

Originally Posted by anb

May I know what subsidy does the government provide to public transport?

Last year Indian Railways incurred a loss of 36,000 Cr
MSRTC 9,000 Cr
KSRTC hundreds of crores every year and some incredible amounts of debt

Literally every state govt. transportation company runs on the exchequers money.

Originally Posted by anb

Those poor people, who doesn't even have acces to bikes, won't have enough money to buy commodities at an increased cost. Actually those poor people will suffer the most.

I agreed with this already, high fuel taxes have a huge negative and that's inflation.

The Govt. should implement a successful direct benefit transfer system.

[anb]

Originally Posted by shortbread

Simply an emotional statement because the country needs to keep running and cannot come to a standstill.

Last year Indian Railways incurred a loss of 36,000 Cr
MSRTC 9,000 Cr

Country means people, not some private company. What’s the meaning of country needs to be running ? The government should be working for the people. What I can see now is rich people becoming richer and poor people becoming poorer.

Railways and state transport corporations are at loss because of there is no support from governments. UPA used to give low floor non AC and AC Volvo buses at 10% of cost to State Transport Undertakings under Jnnrum scheme. It was stopped in 2014. There was diesel subsidy of Rs.10/ litre of diesel to STUs. It was stopped by UPA govt in 2013. These are encouragements for public transports in last 8 years

[wildsdi5530]

Originally Posted by shortbread

Last year Indian Railways incurred a loss of 36,000 Cr
MSRTC 9,000 Cr
KSRTC hundreds of crores every year and some incredible amounts of debt

The commercial division is making losses in the Indian Railways. The passenger division is highly profitable.
Not sure about KSRTC, but BMTC runs on a profit. In fact there is a profit based bonus for the drivers.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by anb

Country means people, not some private company. What’s the meaning of country needs to be running ? The government should be working for the people. What I can see now is rich people becoming richer and poor people becoming poorer.

Railways and state transport corporations are at loss because of there is no support from governments. UPA used to give low floor non AC and AC Volvo buses at 10% of cost to State Transport Undertakings under Jnnrum scheme. It was stopped in 2014. There was diesel subsidy of Rs.10/ litre of diesel to STUs. It was stopped by UPA govt in 2013. These are encouragements for public transports in last 8 years

Running a country has parallels with running a business. Precisely why Private companies are always more efficient than sarkaari institutions. Cash flow is imperative. India's cash flow relies on fuel duties/taxes.

A so called Govt. working for the people needs money to foot the bill, precisely why every socialist country in the world has failed.

Going off topic but state transport corporations are at a loss because they are terribly inefficient. The job of a State govt. transport company is to get people from A to B in an affordable manner, nothing else. It's job it NOT building bus depots every 50 kms, running engineering colleges, building their own bus bodies, having maintenance workshops, have a civil engineering dept. etc etc.

May as well give license to pvt operators and regulate ticket prices.

A govt. should never be in the business of running a business - SG.

[anb]

Originally Posted by shortbread

Going off topic but state transport corporations are at a loss because they are terribly inefficient. The job of a State govt. transport company is to get people from A to B in an affordable manner, nothing else. It's job it NOT building bus depots every 50 kms, running engineering colleges, building their own bus bodies, having maintenance workshops, have a civil engineering dept. etc etc.

May as well give license to pvt operators and regulate ticket prices.

A govt. should never be in the business of running a business - SG.

You have posted in one of previous post that public transport is subsided by the governments. The last one I can remember was giving low floor Non AC buses and AC Volvos at 10% costs under JNRUM scheme . It was stopped by NDA government in 2014. May I know what is the subsidy to public transport now ?

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by anb

You have posted in one of previous post that public transport is subsided by the governments. The last one I can remember was giving low floor Non AC buses and AC Volvos at 10% costs under JNRUM scheme . It was stopped by NDA government in 2014. May I know what is the subsidy to public transport now ?

Bearing a loss is a form of subsidy. Do you think KSRTC runs on it's own revenue generated? Again, we are going off topic.

[nairrk]

Petrol nears ₹111-mark in Mumbai

City/Petrol/Diesel

Delhi 104.79 /93.52
Mumbai 110.75 /101.40
Chennai 102.10 /97.93
Kolkata 105.44 /96.63

Source: Indian Oil

[Akshay6988]

Originally Posted by shortbread

Running a country has parallels with running a business. Precisely why Private companies are always more efficient than sarkaari institutions. Cash flow is imperative. India's cash flow relies on fuel duties/taxes.

A so called Govt. working for the people needs money to foot the bill, precisely why every socialist country in the world has failed.

Going off topic but state transport corporations are at a loss because they are terribly inefficient. The job of a State govt. transport company is to get people from A to B in an affordable manner, nothing else. It's job it NOT building bus depots every 50 kms, running engineering colleges, building their own bus bodies, having maintenance workshops, have a civil engineering dept. etc etc.

May as well give license to pvt operators and regulate ticket prices.

A govt. should never be in the business of running a business - SG.

I may sound rude here but you sir clearly do not have any idea how state transport department works. I agree their job is to transport people at affordable prices. But to do that they need funds, subsidy from government. My uncle is a depot manager in State Transport and I have seen how much he's stressed out because of lack of support (funds rather) from government. The staff hasn't received their salaries for past 4 -5 months, their daily expenses on diesel have risen too much because of subsidy removal.
Because of covid and schools being closed not all buses depart with all seats filled up. So each trip a bus makes, most of the time doesn't even cover the cost for the diesel. Who do you think pays for the workshop, building new bus stops ? It's again the same state transport depot !

State transportation dept were already in loss pre covid - primarily due to government subsidy removed from the diesel. And when covid hit, it hit very hard. In 2020 there was almost no business because of the shutting down of the whole country.

It is very easy to seat inside cozy houses and pass on judgments like "a govt should never be in the business of running a business". Do you know which people are majorly dependent on state transportation Buses ? - people belonging to below poverty line, students from remote areas, farmers from villages who need to get their farm produce to cities, elders who need to visit city hospitals and list is long. Do you think these people can afford private transportation ? Can government guarantee that private transportation will not go Jio way and raise prices all together ? The answer is clear No.

I've seen few members supporting high fuel prices stating no one is spared and everyone has to pay for this ridiculous high price for fuel. Agreed, but a 10 - 20 ₹ increase per liter won't hurt much to people who belong to high income class (not speaking about politicians here, their fuel expenses are covered by us commoners tax money ) but what about daily wage earner ? What about that small business owner ? Coming back to relevance of the thread - absurdly high fuel prices affect everybody and those who say it doesn't are, I am afraid, way beyond saving.

[wildsdi5530]

Originally Posted by Akshay6988

My uncle is a depot manager in State Transport and I have seen how much he's stressed out because of lack of support (funds rather) from government. The staff hasn't received their salaries for past 4 -5 months, their daily expenses on diesel have risen too much because of subsidy removal.
It is very easy to seat inside cozy houses and pass on judgments like "a govt should never be in the business of running a business"

I think that's exactly what @shortbread is talking about. Govt. should run transport corporation without looking for profits and checking viability.

It should not be done as a business, but as a service. It should be funded by the tax payer's monies with no consideration about dial timings, ridership numbers, incentives based on performance/ connections, etc.

Fuel prices hit everyone, but does it affect the ministers or babus who have a fuel budget? Why should it affect the transport companies. They should be provided as much fuel as they need, no matter what the cost. Even if it is to transport one single girl to her school.

[jetsetgo08]

As we speak, the only solutions viable to overcome high fuel prices seem to be-

1. Own a petrol pump
2. Land in a job where fuel expenses are compensated
3. Use a cycle
4. Use public transport

If not for the easy bank loans, India would have been back to using cycles and rickshaws (not the electric ones). The depleting resources of coal and power shortage are not inspiring for people to switch to EV's.

We, like a few other countries, are suffering due to the strategical and political egos of the world's powerhouses.

[nairrk]

Fuel prices skyrocket as petrol retails at Rs 106/L in Delhi; Rs 110 in Bengaluru, Hyderabad

This is the 14th time that petrol price has been hiked in two weeks while diesel rates have gone up 17 times in three weeks.

In Delhi, petrol now costs ₹105.14 per litre while the price of diesel was raised by the same amount to ₹93.87 per litre. In Mumbai, petrol prices were raised by ₹0.34 to ₹111.09 per litre while diesel by ₹0.37 to ₹101.78 per litre.

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