[AutoNoob]

Originally Posted by deathwalkr

Call me an ignoramus but all the revenue generated from the tax on fuel would be with the Government right? And not into someone's pocket? If that be so, then would it be looting?

From a privileged person point of view this may still seem like a minor impact, not a loot. However, from under-privileged / poor person's view this is surely a loot organized by governments (both Centre & States).

The argument, that people from lower income group use proportionally lower amount of petrol/ diesel and thus not impacted, is flawed. There's indirect impact in terms of price increase of basic commodities. Are they going to be OK that the money is taken (looted ??) from their pocket and kept 'safe' with government ? I don't think so.

As for PM Cares fund, it was a voluntary donation fund right? Why drag that into this?

How much voluntary it is, that's a point of detailed discussion. Who contributed and how much will never be known, because being a 'private entity', its out of RTI. But yet a contributor will get tax benefits which are usually available for contributions to 'select Government funds'.

I won't discuss further, as its not in scope of this forum.

[vharihar]

Originally Posted by am1m

PM Cares is probably off-topic for this thread, but the view that it was an entirely voluntary fund is inaccurate:

https://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...le31383279.ece

"While the donations, meant for COVID-19 relief, were said to be “voluntary”, government circulars show that the deductions were made directly from salaries. Those unwilling to donate were asked to submit their refusal in writing."

What exactly are you alleging? Just because it's deducted from salary for ease of process despite giving an opt-out feature, it's involuntary? I don't agree with you there.

I know in my company an overwhelming majority of people wanted to donate, and besides my company had a company-matching scheme too if I recall right. So ours too was deducted from salary. But you could opt-in or opt-out. I don't recall what the default was. As long as the option is there, it's definitely voluntary by every definition.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by vharihar

What exactly are you alleging?

I'm not alleging anything, I've provided a reference to a news article from a credible national daily that provides some additional facts that clarify a view about a government scheme.

If Airtel or HDFC signs you up by default for one of their services and said "you can always opt out", would that make it voluntary?

[xcentrk]

Originally Posted by whitewing

But, I don't get the math.
Assume, a trader was spends Rs400 for fuel gets a total revenue of Rs 1000. Just because the fuel prices is now Rs 800 it does not justify the trader getting a Rs2000 revenue(should have been Rs 1400), which seems to be happening now.
There are some others apart from the Govt making hay when the sun shines.

Works like this. Farmer->Main Distributor->Local Distributor->Trader

In each of the sale process the fuel charges are added. My nearby vendor get his veggies from local distributor, who gets it from main distributor from city outskirts. And the main distributor gets it from various districts.

Before it reaches the final trader, it would change hands a couple of times and all these steps, costs will be added.

So, seller who makes 1000 as total revenue(incl. profit), might get the same stock for 1000 to 1200 now. To make the same profit, he has to sell it for 1800 to 2000.

Note that my business involves trading multiple products and so I know how fat margin these distributors make.

[deathwalkr]

Originally Posted by AutoNoob

From a privileged person point of view this may still seem like a minor impact, not a loot. However, from under-privileged / poor person's view this is surely a loot organized by governments (both Centre & States).

The argument, that people from lower income group use proportionally lower amount of petrol/ diesel and thus not impacted, is flawed. There's indirect impact in terms of price increase of basic commodities. Are they going to be OK that the money is taken (looted ??) from their pocket and kept 'safe' with government ? I don't think so.

How much voluntary it is, that's a point of detailed discussion. Who contributed and how much will never be known, because being a 'private entity', its out of RTI. But yet a contributor will get tax benefits which are usually available for contributions to 'select Government funds'.

I won't discuss further, as its not in scope of this forum.

You are taxing the citizens for a product and using the revenue generated from it for nation building (?) and it's myriad necessities. Whether it be subsidies (we have a lot), security etc.

Now if that revenue was going into an individual's or a private organisation, then yes i would call it looting as well.

Do we have a splitup of main revenue sources for the center? Would love to see that

And yes PM cares is not a topic relevant to this thread and was asking why OP brought it up.

[IamNikhil]

The central government collected Rs 4.6 lakh crore in taxes from petroleum in 2020-21, up from Rs 1.7 lakh crore in 2014-15 — an increase of 164 per cent. The tax collection from petroleum for states, however, has remained constant at about Rs 2 lakh crore for the past three years.

The central government's taxes have gone up from 14% in 2014 to 32% now, and hike in state taxes from 17% to 23% during the same period.

Interestingly, ATF used by airlines is selling at about 33% cheaper than prevalent petrol prices at the moment!

[Sheel]

# Pay GST.
# Pay TDS.

# Pay income tax, (approx. Rs. 31 for every Rs. 100 earned). And with all taxes being paid, continue to purchase fuel with your (already) taxed money at the highest value.

[ramzsys]

I would suggest a reading of the budget document and see where all these tax money goes instead of making it a political debate where one has to take a side eventually, resulting in a polarization.

--

A) People in formal sector, through their education and/or hard work contribute their share of direct taxes and expect a certain quality of life: good air, water, law & order, healthcare, infrastructure etc. And despite the taxes they don't get much in return; we install air purifiers, purchase packaged waters/RO units, avoid escalations/conflict even if you are the victim, prefer private healthcare, pay extra for premature clutch/suspension wear, buy over-rated hatchbacks that are also called SUVs in this country to come home safe. Thus you pay a lot for something and you pay some more from your pocket for it.

B) Then there are the those on the other side who don't contribute: large number of farmers who grow lot of stuff than what the country consumes, agricultural laborers who live on survival mode all their lives, informal workers, those who thrive in the parallel (unaccounted) economy and pay nothing (eg: a landlord in Bangalore with 10 flats earning a 2L per month) but who continue to use the infrastructure.

Approx 6 crore people filed IT; out of which 1.5 crore pay the tax out of the 140 crore people living in this country. Thus the direct tax paying category A are a microscopic minority compared to B. But then we live in a democracy and the votes aren't for only the direct tax payers but for everyone, the politician has to please a lot of people to get/stay in power, so they continue to exploit A through both direct and indirect taxes while unable to give the quality of life (and thus some get fed up and emigrate).

Urban India makes less than 2 kids per couple while the rural happily makes more than 2. Thus those who plan their lives well are becoming less represented in this 'democracy' and during the great Indian elections, the politician offers momentary graft to the category B voters rather than worrying about A. And there's elections all the time: the union elections, the state elections, the local body elections. Elections in-between when a seat gets vacant; the country is in a perennial election mode.

Our own population bloom resulted in this land fragmentation (my neighbor grandpa had 6 kids, his 10 acre farm got divided equally; and each family now is struggling to make ends meet) which makes it very difficult to address rural distress other than the freebies and stuff distributed from A's tax money. Imagine this: an urban couple putting off having their 2nd kid for 3 years until they pay off the house EMI while the rural couple make 3 of them because, they can.

The solutions to these disparities aren't forced sterilizations(which also failed, btw) but to bring more people into formal employment, educate women and bring them into workforce so as to delay marriage and let the economy dictate the number of babies they make, etc. Unless more people are drawn from B into A, any politician of the day will keep pandering to B at the expense of A and the number of threads cribbing about taxes in this forum and elsewhere will keep going on.

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by Babruvahanaaaaa

Sums it up perfectly.
Attachment 2220558



Via:FB

Some petrol pump attendant is going to scratch his head, and fill the wrong fuel! This chap better be very careful while refueling!

[harry10]

Diesel is touching 96 here in Faridabad. Won't lie, it's pinching. In March 2020 before Corona hit I remember it was 63-64Rs. So, a 32 rupee increase in approx 18 months when crude prices are more or less same. That's absolutely ridiculous and mind-boggling. If it was previous government whole country would be seeing Dharnas and what not. Sadly, no one is bothered with current govt.

Worse part is no one knows where it will stop as there is no logic or reasoning for these increases.

Off topic- NCR guys which diesel company you prefer? I used to fill always with Indian Oil but since few months I am filling with Bharat Petroleum as it's on my route.

[AutoNoob]

Originally Posted by deathwalkr

Do we have a splitup of main revenue sources for the center? Would love to see that

Here you go.

Source : Union Budget Website

Direct : File

[carboy]

Triple seat on 2 wheelers will be allowed after petrol price crosses Rs.200 - https://www.newindianexpress.com/nat...n-2373227.html

[condor]

India is not the only one affected by high crude prices:

https://www.rediff.com/money/report/...y/20211020.htm


From the article:

1. Current contract system is based on volume, but payment is as per rate on date of delivery.

2. India is 85 per cent dependent on imports to meet its oil needs and relies on overseas shipments to meet 55 per cent of the gas needs

3. India's oil import bill has climbed from $8.8 billion in June 2020 quarter to $24 billion this year because of a spike in global oil prices.

4. India, which imports almost two-thirds of its oil needs from West Asia, has told crude oil producers, including the OPEC, that high oil prices will hasten the transition to alternate fuels and such rates will be counter-productive for the producers.


And an old comparison table:

[carboy]

Originally Posted by condor

India is not the only one affected by high crude prices:

India is the only one who was affected when no one else was

- When worldwide crude prices are low - Indian taxes since 2014 so high that our prices at the pump are still high.

- When worldwide crude prices are high - Indian taxes high, so our prices at the pump are even higher.


I can't imagine how anyone would even think of defending this.

[JithinR]

If you look around on all the desperate posts trying to defend fuel prices hikes on twitter you can atleast reduce your BP by tickling your funny bone.

Latest one i saw was that it's because of Corona. Someone quickly responded asking if our ***ji knew that COVID-19 would hit us in 2014 itself.

However, at the end of the day you get the feeling that if fuel becomes too expensive for a section of the population they will just move to this new mode of transportation.



Source: Twitter

After all, "***ji ne kiya hai toh kuch soch samajh ke hi kiya hoga".

Note: Some of the text is pre redacted so that some of our esteemed members don't take offense and find the excuse to report it.

To them, yes sir please take it personally. I have yet to say the words "tank full sir" at the pump for my bike in the last two years or for the car that I got for my dad. Something I would have otherwise done just to see if the injectors and everything else is working fine. The only reason for it is the accursed price at the pump.

Also, yes I know I am privileged enough to have a car, bike and house. But I just don't like feeling like a nincompoop after paying taxes through my nose and then getting onto those pathetic excuse for roads in Bengaluru to go to a pump to fuel up with a magic dinosour juice that is taxed over 200%.

One that will soon be adulterated with ethanol which will ruin my engines and still be priced more than most other countries on earth.

Oh and if I ever find that guy Vikas that everyone keeps talking about I have a few choice expletives for him too.

Phew..ok I need to go back to SM to bring my BP down again.