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Old 1st November 2021, 18:00   #7606
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Actually, not any Govt. Only this govt. Central Tax on Fuel was 9 Rs in 2014. Its 33 Rs now.


Most people don't pay taxes because they earn less than 5 Lakhs a year which is the minimum tax slab. We are a very poor country. Median income in India in India is around 1.5 Lakhs a year - i.e. 50% of people earn below 1.5 Lakhs a year. Obviously, they don't fall into a any tax slab. Some 80% of the country earns below 5 lakhs. If people's income increases, then they will automatically fall in the tax slab.
Very aptly put.
Our's is agriculture based economy where more than 40% population is dependent on agriculture and all income from agriculture is exempted from income tax. Here also I am taking very conservative approach. Actual number might be much higher than 40%.

After this 40% agri based population, if we further exclude low income group, students and assuming 1 earner for a family of 4, we are not much lagging on the income tax paying people. It is just a narrative created by Politicians to make us thing we are the one not paying any tax.

On the contrary if we see,
1. for all new roads, we are paying tolls.
2. For all our investments, we are paying tax for any interest earned. Example FDs, RDs, etc.
3. For all investment in Shares or mutual fund there are taxes and even short term/long term capital gains are taxed.
4. Keeping cash is also not an option with rising inflation and fear of another announcement at 8 pm by Mitron man.
5. Interest rates are going down. expenses are going up. (Please don't tell home loan rates are also going down, not everyone in country need or avail a home loan, but every one invest as per their capacity)


On top of all this, advertisement budget is increasing and giving tough fight to fuel and oil prices. A small info here from 2018.
https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/...pa-in-10-years

(This report excludes the Thank you poster for free vaccines )

Not able to see any relief in near future. We will be patting our back in COP26 , Glasgow and common people will keep on facing the heat of inflation from all sides.
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Old 1st November 2021, 18:02   #7607
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Why are we not discussing all Petroleum products in general & focusing only on insane price rise of diesel & Petrol ?

Had received this image posted by some political personality on social media
any guess why these might have landed at scrap yards ?
they say " pictures worth thousand words "
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Old 1st November 2021, 18:21   #7608
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
Completely agree with you. Our tax slabs are really screwed up. It should be more rational.
>50K --> No tax
50k - 2L --> 10%
2-5L --> 20%
>5L --> 30%
This would be a good slab system. Additional cess can be charged to tax the super rich.

This is an utter rubbish slab. You are taxing people who barely earn enough to feed their family 2 proper meals a day, clothes etc. It's almost as if both the population & the Govt knows we are never going to make more number of people prosperous enough to fall into the tax slabs, so let's squeeze everyone dry every which way.

Last edited by carboy : 1st November 2021 at 18:27.
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Old 1st November 2021, 18:39   #7609
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

The rising fuel prices shows the (in)competence of the people in charge. What is worrisome is why are the people grimacing and bearing it silently? Elections were won citing fuel prices, so how did priorities change? Every time i fill fuel i sweat a lot and I have started using the metro more for office commutes.
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Old 1st November 2021, 18:40   #7610
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildsdi5530 View Post
Completely agree with you. Our tax slabs are really screwed up. It should be more rational.
>50K --> No tax
50k - 2L --> 10%
2-5L --> 20%
>5L --> 30%
This would be a good slab system. Additional cess can be charged to tax the super rich.
I really hope this is a joke. You want someone earning Rs.5000 a month to pay income tax? It would make sense if the above numbers are per month and not annual incomes.

But with the current environment we have, I am sure the law makers can propose this ( citing danger from Pak, China and even Bhutan for good measure ) and get away with this. Because if you question it, you will be branded an anti-national and slapped with some sedition charges.
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Old 1st November 2021, 18:45   #7611
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanjivvohra View Post
...my car ( diesel) gives 8kmpl in Bangalore traffic. That's Rs 315 one way and Rs630 for the trip. Multiply this by 22 working days comes to Rs13,860/.
A fuel economy of 8 kmpl in city driving is bad for a diesel car. My manual diesel Tucson gives 10 kmpl in Blore traffic with AC always on, and 16-17 kmpl on highway. You may want to get your vehicle checked. Unless it's an Innova auto tranny or Fortuner/Endeavor or some large car like that, which I think are known to have poor fuel economy figures.

For people like us who can afford big cars, it makes us feel bad but likely doesn't pinch much even if monthly fuel bill has gone up from Rs 9K to Rs 14K as you suggest. But an overwhelming majority of people in India will feel the pinch if their monthly car fuel budget goes from Rs 5000 to Rs 8000; or say 2-wheeler owners whose monthly fuel expense goes from Rs 1500 to Rs 2500.

It's insanely high fuel taxes. I feel the govt should reduce fuel taxes, reinstate high corporate taxes, and tone down some unjustified infrastructure projects (if that's what is forcing such high taxes), such as Agra Metro, Nashik MetroLite, etc.
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Old 1st November 2021, 19:14   #7612
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by vharihar View Post
A fuel economy of 8 kmpl in city driving is bad for a diesel car. My manual diesel Tucson gives 10 kmpl in Blore traffic with AC always on, and 16-17 kmpl on highway. You may want to get your vehicle checked. Unless it's an Innova auto tranny or Fortuner/Endeavor or some large car like that, which I think are known to have poor fuel economy figures.
Yes, I have an Endevour 3.2 4x4, hence the fuel average.
Notwithstanding the running cost, everything else has also become pricier after lockdown, and every little way to reduce expenses helps in meeting budget.
As you rightly said, it won't probably pinch us so much as maybe the folks who don't earn in lakhs of rupees. Sad!
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Old 1st November 2021, 19:44   #7613
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

After having skimmed through various discussions on tax collection, revenue and expenditure, I would just like to add one very apolitical point.

- The loss of massive amounts of GST revenue due to lockdowns/reduction in economic activity at the very same time when governments around the world are expected to increase welfare spending and on healthcare. They're looking for any and every source of tax revenue at the moment. (Also the reason behind recent disinvestment push).

Also, a gentleman above mentioned 30% slab over 5L. Yes incomes in India are low, that also means it's harder to live in those incomes. It doesn't justify collecting ~2L tax from someone who makes 10Lpa. He's not objectively rich, only comparatively richer. 10Lpa in a metro where you've to pay rent isn't going to afford you some luxurious life, instead of which one is ought to be contributing to the public exchequer. In fact, tax slabs haven't kept up with inflation in the last decade or so. Tax slabs are decided based on what's considered the basic income required for decent survival, only after which it is determined that a person ought to contribute to public funds.

Someone earning 2L can barely make ends meet, let alone get a decent survival. The idea of taxing that at 10% is insane to say the least.

Last edited by RoadMonkey : 1st November 2021 at 19:45.
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Old 1st November 2021, 19:47   #7614
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by arakhanna View Post
Quite hilarious that people are commenting on the education for the PM but stepping aside from speaking intelligibly on the subject. May be reflective of their education. Sorry could not resist Apologies in advance
There is nothing hilarious here as I said is a fact. At least I appreciate you that you spoke with numbers here rather than bizarre justifications from the ruling government. I do not want to move out of the topic and list all the public justification given by various ministers across the nation. Actually I took our current PMs statement towards former government in the past because I remember public offering of our current ruling govt before the election was a sub ~50 INR/Litre petrol and as a common voter we are bound to expect right?

I appreciate your effort again for putting some statistics here because as a common man we expect our government or at-least the leaders to provide some useful facts and forecast of hope which states taxing the fuel is the best sustainable way to improve our economy.

Again if you misunderstood, I do not vouch for any political party, As a common citizen increasing fuel price is a big concern for everyone and it is the duty of govt. to find a solution rather than blaming former govt/state governments
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Old 1st November 2021, 19:54   #7615
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by m8002? View Post
....want someone earning Rs.5000 a month to pay income tax? .
Don't intend to nitpick on your particular post, but I believe that our tax laws are unnecessarily kept complicated with so many slabs and exemptions that people find loopholes on how to avoid tax and rest of the people have to hire CAs to file the cumbersome complicated tax.

Every citizen of a country if earning even 1 rupee has to pay some tax however small the tax amount may be. That is the responsibility that every earning citizen should directly feel responsible in nation building rather than giving some tax exemption and then charging high indirect tax like fuel tax for example to the same poor people to make up for the tax deficit.

See the example of Russia, they had the same complicated tax slabs and high tax evasion. The solution? they just came up with a simple 13% flat tax for all earning people, no exemptions and a reasonable amount which nobody can avoid paying.

We have to learn from these good steps taken by other countries and simplify and make our direct tax flat and low for all earning folks and nobody should escape from this simple flat law.
Once tax compliance is simple and foolproof, hopefully indirect tax of more than 100% on fuel can be brought down.

Reference link:
Russia flat income tax of 13%

Last edited by for_cars1 : 1st November 2021 at 20:04.
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Old 1st November 2021, 20:04   #7616
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanjivvohra View Post
The alternative of EVs is still some years away - the quality and infrastructure just does not exist.
I am really amazed that people keep saying this. EVs are perfectly usable right now. There are hundreds, yes hundreds of chargers in the Bangalore area and THOUSANDS across India. I drive an EV and being in Delhi, I can drive all the way to Bombay, Goa or Kerala without any issues whatsoever. Similarly I can drive to Agra, Lucknow, Nainital, Mussorie, Shimla, Chandigarh, Jaipur, Amritsar etc without problems. So I don't know what more infrastructure is needed for people to get an EV.
Take a look at some of the public chargers in Bangalore.
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Last edited by Lobogris : 1st November 2021 at 20:12.
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Old 1st November 2021, 20:13   #7617
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

The writing on the wall is clear. The government doesn't have money even for day to day expenses, leave alone development projects. The day is not far when they might even default on salaries. The situation is even more precarious in the state of Andhra Pradesh. The government is coming with crazy schemes like selling online movie tickets, selling meat, lands etc to generate revenue.

However none of the politicians are poor. Forget ministers, not a single MLA is worth less than few hundred crores AFAIK.

What was done with PM cares fund, or with the massive amounts taken from RBI, no one knows.

What is the total of all NPAs of all PSU banks and the names of all defaulters, willful or otherwise, with defaults above 50 crores, no one knows.

What is the value of all the assets that are sold to private people(only 2 As) in the name of disinvestment at throwaway prices, no one knows.

What is the total money being spent in Kashmir and to what end, no one knows.

But what we know is that the government has no money. So, either they should tax or print the cash. The second option is dangerous and may even collapse the economy.

Regarding tax slabs, I believe that income tax and gst should be abolished and there should be only 3-4 items that should be directly taxed like fuel, alcohol, gold etc. Otherwise there will always be people earning 100000 per day but show loss or nominal profit and pay near zero tax.
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Old 1st November 2021, 20:21   #7618
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Fuel taxation, it is the low-hanging fruit for collecting money for govt. use. I see this as taxation on consumption (part direct and part indirect). India having such a low base of direct taxpayers must tax consumption. There is simply no alternate.

With current mechanism, salaried class is getting taxed multiple times on their meager earnings. Maybe it is time that companies start exploring contract mechanisms rather than employment to make earnings more tax friendly for people.

On the other hand, the current high and double taxes on salaried will eventually push some of them to start curtailing consumption. That will be the scenario where services industry will face dire future.


PS: The term middle class is very ambiguous, and subject to individual interpretation. Thus, I rarely use it.
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Old 1st November 2021, 20:26   #7619
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanjivvohra View Post
I live 24 km from my workplace and my car ( diesel) gives 8kmpl in Bangalore traffic.
Could you please share which diesel car has this great fuel efficiency?
At this rate, maybe buying an electric car will have much better ROI for you.
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Old 1st November 2021, 20:29   #7620
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Re: The Official Fuel Prices Thread

Full disclosure - I was a strong supporter of 'You know who' until the second wave covid mismanagement in the country. And realized - it was all a marketing blitz that I had been blinded by over the years. Have trolled many in the whatsapp groups in the pre-covid days for as much as a slight question on the policy. Sat tight as the fuel taxes kept climbing. Unable to chew, unable to spit it out.

But I have changed, over the past year. Now, I am as surprised, looking at absolutely no challenge from ANY one on the rising prices of the basic commodity. Leave the logic behind the need for the raise in prices out for the moment. But Indians have always challenged any raise in fuel prices. But this time. No one is bothered. Just absolutely mesmerizing.

Now to address some points on - what about all the infra projects, the vaccine cost, etc.

1. Infra projects - Pretty much every infra project is either supported by a toll or an international loan. Taxes are not going here.

2. Vaccine cost - This I agree. But, lets say - 100 crore Indians * INR 800 * 2 = 16000 crore. Roughly 16000 crores. This does not account for the increase in taxes.

3. Also, GST has been setting records months after month.
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