[Aniket Verma]

Originally Posted by carboy

What exactly are you saying here? That poor people do not spend a higher percentage of their income as compared to people who are richer than them?

I am just saying that beyond Rich & Poor, there is a substantial Middle Class, which pays highest of taxes and yet get no relief from government. So they can have some relief, if Direct Taxation burden on them (Us ) is not increase further to keep the Fuel prices low.

How is there a subsidy on diesel? Diesel costs around 35-40 Rupees to manufacture & is sold at 85 rupees a litre? How did you figure out that diesel is subsidised?

Due to higher cost of refining Low Sulphur Diesel, globally Diesel prices are higher than Petrol, however, in India, Diesel prices are kept below Petrol (through subsidy / low taxation) as it is labelled as poor man's fuel .

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Aniket Verma

I am just saying that beyond Rich & Poor, there is a substantial Middle Class,

Actually most of India is poor. Around 50% of all Indians earn less than 1 lakh rupees per year.

Originally Posted by Aniket Verma

So they can have some relief, if Direct Taxation burden on them (Us ) is not increase further to keep the Fuel prices low.

Where did I ask to increase direct taxation burden on them? Where have this govt reduced direct taxation burden on them while increasing indirect taxation on the whole country?

Originally Posted by Aniket Verma

Due to higher cost of refining Low Sulphur Diesel, globally Diesel prices are higher than Petrol, however, in India, Diesel prices are kept below Petrol (through subsidy / low taxation) as it is labelled as poor man's fuel

Could you explain the subsidy? I mean, cost of the diesel without taxes is around 40Rs. And it's sold for 85 Rs. So where is the subsidy here & where is low taxation?

[vjoy3]

Tangential question here. Mods are welcome to shoot/delete it.

Am visiting my hometown Gulbarga. Happened to go to a specific petrol bunk twice so far since its enroute morning drive. Both times there were different men manning the dispensers. But one consistent theme was they trying to fool us into believing right amount was filled. So want to know where/how to report it.

Modus operandi -
I tell the guy to put petrol for 2000.
He resets the counter and asks me to check. Starts.
Exact sametime another guy collecting payments starts pestering to pay thru card since will have savings.
The dispenser suddenly stops and says done.
When I say its showing 200 and not 2000, he argues had asked for 200.
Other guy is still continuously repeating virtues of card payment.
The dispenser starts filling and stops at 1800. Here's the crooked part.
He didn't reset but argues he did so. When I start complaining loudly the collector goes to vending machine saying he will check and finds wasn't reset and they have to fill for 200 more.

First time it was for 400, this time 200. And they take it light saying happens sometimes and not bothered when I said will complaint.
The bunk is said to be owned by a senior politician (former home minister himself).

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by vjoy3

.
The dispenser suddenly stops and says done.
When I say its showing 200 and not 2000, he argues had asked for 200.
Other guy is still continuously repeating virtues of card payment.
The dispenser starts filling and stops at 1800. Here's the crooked part.
He didn't reset but argues he did so. When I start complaining loudly the collector goes to vending machine saying he will check and finds wasn't reset and they have to fill for 200 more.

First time it was for 400, this time 200. And they take it light saying happens sometimes and not bothered when I said will complaint.
The bunk is said to be owned by a senior politician (former home minister himself).

This is an old trick really and very well covered on this forum.
If you don't want to fight, just say ok, pay 200 as that's what they have filled and move on to another bunk. Don't go back to the crooks.

[Vitalstatistiks]

Originally Posted by carboy

Could you explain the subsidy? I mean, cost of the diesel without taxes is around 40Rs. And it's sold for 85 Rs. So where is the subsidy here & where is low taxation?

I think he is referring to the subsidy to refineries. The cost of crude is common but cost for refining diesel is higher compared to petrol. Technically they should price diesel higher than petrol while selling to dealers. Yet refiners sell it to dealers for cheaper (taxes get added on top of that). That is achieved by subsidy/subsidy like incentives from government, who wish to ensure diesel remains cheaper. Plus the excise duty and VAT, both, are lesser for petrol than diesel (in most states for sure).

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Vitalstatistiks

I think he is referring to the subsidy to refineries. The cost of crude is common but cost for refining diesel is higher compared to petrol. Technically they should price diesel higher than petrol while selling to dealers. Yet refiners sell it to dealers for cheaper (taxes get added on top of that). That is achieved by subsidy/subsidy like incentives from government, who wish to ensure diesel remains cheaper. Plus the excise duty and VAT, both, are lesser for petrol than diesel (in most states for sure).

Diesel costs a Govt PSU around 30-40Rs a liter to make. It's sold for Rs 85 a liter. There is no subsidy. Selling diesel is a highly profitable activity for the Govt - they are not susbisiding diesel. Not at all.

[Aniket Verma]

Originally Posted by carboy

Diesel costs a Govt PSU around 30-40Rs a liter to make. It's sold for Rs 85 a liter. There is no subsidy. Selling diesel is a highly profitable activity for the Govt - they are not susbisiding diesel. Not at all.

Originally Posted by Vitalstatistiks

I think he is referring to the subsidy to refineries. The cost of crude is common but cost for refining diesel is higher compared to petrol. Technically they should price diesel higher than petrol while selling to dealers. Yet refiners sell it to dealers for cheaper (taxes get added on top of that). That is achieved by subsidy/subsidy like incentives from government, who wish to ensure diesel remains cheaper. Plus the excise duty and VAT, both, are lesser for petrol than diesel (in most states for sure).

Petroleum product prices are based on cost of refining the respective product & cost of refining Diesel is higher than Petrol, so by market terms which should be more costly?

Differentiation is created in terms of lesser taxes on Diesel, with a belief that most of the same is consumed by farmers, yet Agricultural sector consumes only 13% of the same.

Now in India, Diesel outsold Petrol by the ratio of 2.4 to 1, so for every 1 liter of Petrol being consumed, 2.088 liter of Diesel is simultaneously consumed by non Agri consumers (Those who have higher disposable income, either due to virtue of low direct taxation or by showing consumption as expense).

So, Govt. can rake in similar amount of Tax, if they bring the taxes on par for both Diesel & Petrol, it will provide Govt. with a scope of correction in Petrol prices by 12 %.

Till this does not happens, this 12% is kind of subsidy for Diesel consumers as they are paying lower than ideal market rates.

P.S.: My vehicles are running on Diesel

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Aniket Verma

Differentiation is created in terms of lesser taxes on Diesel, with a belief that most of the same is consumed by farmers, yet Agricultural sector consumes only 13% of the same.

So reduce petrol taxes to same as diesel to bring parity? Who is objecting to that? Do you think they will do that?

Originally Posted by Aniket Verma

Till this does not happens, this 12% is kind of subsidy for Diesel consumers as they are paying lower than ideal market rates.

No, it's not a subsidy. When govt makes 40-50 Rs on taxes on diesel, to say that diesel is subsidized is beyond absurd. Selling diesel is a highly profitable activity for the Govt - they are not susbisiding diesel. Not at all.

[Sanjunair5]

Originally Posted by Aniket Verma

Petroleum product prices are based on cost of refining the respective product & cost of refining Diesel is higher than Petrol, so by market terms which should be more costly?

Differentiation is created in terms of lesser taxes on Diesel, with a belief that most of the same is consumed by farmers, yet Agricultural sector consumes only 13% of the same.

Subsidy or taxes? Both are different.

Can you point me to a source?

To the best of my knowledge neither petrol not diesel fuels are subsidized. They were subsidized earlier. Then subsidies were removed, but were price controlled/regulated. Then subsequently decontrolled, meaning prices were market linked.

They are differently taxed, but that is a completely different discussion. Different methods are applied based on scenarios. Differential taxation exists everywhere. For e.g. TVs less than 32" have a GST of 18% while those above 32" carry a GST of 28% and similarly for mobile phones (12% GST) vs mobile phone accessories (18% GST).

[pavi]

Guys I have a solution for all your fuel price related issues. When you feel the prices are high, train yourself to think this way "today's fuel price is cheaper than tomorrow's fuel price. So I am paying less for fuel today". This is a mantra which will help you for the long years you gonna live in the new India. This will keep your blood pressure low, and bring happiness to your heart. Stay healthy, be happy.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Sanjunair5

To the best of my knowledge neither petrol not diesel fuels are subsidized. They were subsidized earlier. Then subsidies were removed, but were price controlled/regulated. Then subsequently decontrolled, meaning prices were market linked.

They made a mockery of deregulation & market linked prices. Every time when oil prices went down, they increased excise duty on fuel so that the benefit of market linked price never came to the end-user. Only when oil prices go up, the fuel prices are market linked, not otherwise.

[Turbohead]

Originally Posted by pavi

In some days we all might have the luck to celebrate a century in style. If petrol crosses 100 mark,

1. Go to pump on your bike with helmet on.
2. Buy one litre of petrol
3. Take your helmet in your left hand and wallet in your right hand
4. Kiss the helmet and look at the blue sky

That's how a (cricket) century is celebrated in India.

NB: Strictly pun intended.

This actually happened

Courtesy:https://www.instagram.com/p/CLUkJm_I...d=jynotk0ekgi7

[lurker]

Originally Posted by carboy

They made a mockery of deregulation & market linked prices. Every time when oil prices went down, they increased excise duty on fuel so that the benefit of market linked price never came to the end-user. Only when oil prices go up, the fuel prices are market linked, not otherwise.

It is still market linked (on upwards movement only).

they didn't do full disclosure to public on what all was really linked to fuel prices. This is a criminal offfence.

1. funding budget deficit
2. extravagent govt expenditure (chai, samosa, pastries, premium chauffered cars, imported weapons & ammo etc)
3. Cess collected on oil refinery upgradation to BS6 levels has not seen a single anna-paisa spent on oil refinery upgradation. Only 80% cess collected on road transportation used for upgrading roads.
4. promise of downward revision of cess once international crude prices rise not kept.
5. Daily revision of prices when 75% of petrol bunks do not have network linked automatic price revision facility in place yet till date.
6. During covid when incomes are lower and public transport is best avoided, piling on fuel bills is an added taxation to already heavily taxed poor and middle-class. Especially service sector who have to run door-to-door to sell their service.

the public have been lied to on many levels as can be seen. There is dishonesty and disingenuity in these price hikes and as a result the people are being punished for financial profligacy of the govt.

[neelkumar]

Originally Posted by lurker

1. funding budget deficit

To plug the deficit, we have seen increased taxes from one side and bleeding ONGC's cash reserves from the other.

Reducing dependence on other countries was another promise, on which I don't see any significant efforts made by the government. Yes, the solar fields are coming up fast, but they are not enough for the our growing needs.

Originally Posted by lurker

6. During covid when incomes are lower and public transport is best avoided, piling on fuel bills is an added taxation to already heavily taxed poor and middle-class. Especially service sector who have to run door-to-door to sell their service.

the public have been lied to on many levels as can be seen. There is dishonesty and disingenuity in these price hikes and as a result the people are being punished for financial profligacy of the govt.

Completely agree with all your points and specially these. When other countries are helping their poor citizens, we had a hollow 20lakh crore package for nothing.

Weirdly, I was a supporter of this govt untill their term-2 started.

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by carboy

Actually most of India is poor. Around 50% of all Indians earn less than 1 lakh rupees a month.

Rs 1 lakh per month is your idea of poor people? I know many who make that much once every four months. They need to buy fuel too for their two wheelers, which are their main mode of mobility.