[bhargav2015]

Lol. Good thought. But the dividend payout is greatly outpaced by the fuel price rise. My dividends barely cover cost of Naturals' Ice Cream with petrol cost to and fro!

And the Refiners' GRMs are already under pressure unless they invest in downstream assets for better integration, which forces them to invest large capital. And with the EV wave coming, the demand side will weaken, leaving them stranded.

Being in the Oil & Gas/ Petrochemicals field, let me just say that this phase is *turbulence during transition*.

The Energy Security of our country is especially of greater relevance with the EV mobility wave kicking in.

On a lighter vein, I saw an EV charging station powered on Diesel Generator sets as standby and went

[adityadeva]

Originally Posted by shortbread

The worst thing one can do is continue the norm.

People need start considering alternatives.

My understanding is that for government only roti, kapda aur makkaan ( food, clothes and house) alone matters.

They are in desperate look out for money and any average govt will go for the soft target where collection of tax is guaranteed.

Other GST etc. would generate income but will have evasion of tax thanks to all of our mentality of savings and avoiding tax ( I'm no exception and a vast majority of citizens in our country would not be either).

So either government has to suffer huge budgetary deficit or go for taxes wherever they can lay hands on. Expecting austerity measures from government is impractical as the government is the reflection of our own society.

So can't expect a lowering in this loot and have no complaints ( it will make no difference)

Now exploring the alternatives is what I consider as practical option. There indeed are quite a lot of people who can afford it too. Hence fully agree with this wise suggestion.

[longhorn]

Some food for thought for the 'nothing can be done - crude oil prices are rising in the international market' brigade. A small south east asian country proposes to reduce excise duty on fuels for 6 months straight. Just to be fair to them - they haven't hiked their excise duty when crude prices were down like our fake nationalists did.

https://www.msn.com/en-ph/money/econ...?ocid=msedgntp

[allinbalance]

Originally Posted by Nalin1

Don't you realize that it is calibrated as per global crude oil prices and the rupee-dollar exchange value? So the pricing is totally out of their hands.

Sorry, we are getting gypped from both sides - Brent crude price and by greedy government (both levels). Here is the reality (slightly older data) -

[adityadeva]

Originally Posted by longhorn

A small south east asian country

down like our fake nationalists did.

https://www.msn.com/en-ph/money/econ...?ocid=msedgntp

Comparing india to the small South Asian country like Singapore would be huge disparity by any means. The economy, the size of the population, and the coherence of thought ( we are no where near it with such diverse and opposing views ).

Also I don't think this matter has to be taken politically and emotionaly at all, in one way or other as long as we import fuel and burn it out - we burn a huge hole in our own pocket whether there's tax or less tax or subsidy.

I see a gradual shift away from oil import as the only long term solution.

I read elsewhere in the thread that some people are not getting the thrill of redlining the revcounter after fuel prices start soaring. If a well educated petrol heads of teambhp can think like this, then the common folks surely will keep their revs low.

[anjan_c2007]

Originally Posted by tiagoatrix

Robbers get to work when it's dark.
A mafia government survives with indirect taxes.

Enough of the looting.

Well said!

The tax loot will fatten their kitty, it already has and will further do so. With the 2024 elections due in another two and a half years, the loot will be used to distribute election freebies to their officially listed, underprivileged masses. Those eligible for freebies get lazier with everything coming to their doors, while many more deserving masses are left out in the official list.

We know the fate of the so called "Pradhan Mantri Ujjwala Yojana". As on 28 Oct 2021 the free gas connection numbers were 4,281,195 connections. These connections get the first cylinder for free. The price tag is quite prohibitive for a majority of the poor people to go for the second one as refill. Hence the connection gets off the track very soon. They prefer the conventional and pocket friendly wood, coal or charcoal as cooking fuel. Recently, in Madhya Pradesh, a huge amount of empty gas cylinders were found with a scrap dealer.

The scenario from Bhind (M. P.)

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/empt...lation-2585772

[Anikesh11]

While in principle I have always been pro deregulation of fuel prices and higher taxes, things are getting out hand here
Central government sees this as easy source of revenue but need to realize there might be an inflection point beyond which this will start negatively impacting the demand for fuel itself, also the elephant in the room inflation
Milking a cow beyond its capacity is bad for the cow, the farmer and the buyer

[AutoNoob]

Originally Posted by whitewing

It is best to look at data. [Agreed, it is from TOI, but would be interesting to know if there is a problem with the math.]
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/87446809.cms

Thanks for sharing. I am just representing the data in another way (assuming TOI had re-checked its numbers) :

For first 100 doses :

1. Vaccine Cost :
Govt (Centre + States) : ~Rs 20,000 Cr (93 crore doses)
Households & Employers : ~Rs. 5,150 Cr (7 crore doses)

2. Vaccine administering cost :
Govt (Centre + States) : ~Rs. 14,000Cr
Households & Employers : Included in cost

For 300 Crore doses (150 x 2) :
total cost of vaccination = (20,000 + 14,000) x 3 = ~1.05 Lakh Crore


Tax Collected from Fuel :
FY2020-21
Centre : 4.5L Crore
States : 2.2L Crore

Q1 FY2021-22
Centre : 90,750 Crore
States : 61,613 Crore

Total tax from fuel (in FY2020-21 & FY2021-22) :
Centre : 8~9 Lakh Crore
States : 4.5~5.0 Lakh Crore

so, around only 8% of tax from two years is being used for vaccination.

So, it turns out vaccination cost is just another smokescreen to hide organized loot.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by adityadeva

I see a gradual shift away from oil import as the only long term solution.

If & when fuel tax revenue reduces, they will levy similar tax on electricity to compensate for it - they will call it Krishi Kalyan Cess or Garib Bachao Cess or Swach Bharat Cess - checkmate. Once taxes are increased, there is no going back.

[adityadeva]

Originally Posted by carboy

they will levy similar tax on electricity to compensate for it - .

Very correctly said so, it will take some time and not in tune of this sort of robbery.

Fast chargers and fast charging will bear the brunt initially.

Probably they might even ask a separate meter for ev domestic Charing with a higher rate.

Probably solar based domestic charging might escape taxman.

Let's see how the drama unfolds.

Many years ago a four wheeler or even a two wheeler was out of reach of common folks ( me included) due license raj and being prohibitively expensive.

Now that in recent times when owning a vehicle is within the reach, fuel is becoming prohibitively expensive and tending towards a status symbol situation. I worry whether government will impose a luxury tax on fuel itself.

Today I rode a electric scooter that doesn't require license plate and it ran reasonably well on the hilly inclined road infront of my house. I have never heard of that brand. However the owner, a slightly elder neighbor of mine who was the owner of the scooter commented that for one week of his commute to work (around 6 kms away) he has an expense of 5 ₹ a week and it cost him 59k. His strong advice was - buy it as early as possible, even one day earlier it matters. And indeed I'm pondering. My activa of 17 years and wego of 10 years were looking back at me. Should I retain one or let go. Can't decide. Presently I work far away and my son hasn't come of age for license.

[Bibendum90949]

Once(barely few months ago) a full tank that costed ~4k is now 6k

[SoumenD]

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

Once(barely few months ago) a full tank that costed ~4k is now 6k

Not to nitpick, but for 4k(for 57 litres), diesel cost should have been ~70INR.

I doubt that was the case few months ago. More like few years ago. IIRC diesel was at 70INR way back in mid 2018.

Edit: Just checked the prices on this Link

[Old_Salt]

Originally Posted by veyron999

Not only are the fuel prices pinching, haven't the toll rates silently increased beyond any comprehensible logic?
Gone are the days where we would shell out Rs.35 to Rs.75 at toll booths. With advent of fast tag, we don't realise when the prices go up. On my recent drive from Nagpur to Delhi, I realised how significantly the rates have gone up. Most of the tolls now charge >100Rs, with quite a few of them charging Rs.140!

Absolutely agree, saw a recent clip where Mr Minister was asked by a certain reporter to give exemption to media people.
The minister quite rightly said if you need good roads, you gotta pay for it.

https://youtu.be/Gh66sdBfADc

[Meph1st0]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

Not to nitpick, but for 4k(for 57 litres), diesel cost should have been ~70INR.

I doubt that was the case few months ago. More like few years ago. IIRC diesel was at 70INR way back in mid 2018.

Edit: Just checked the prices on this Link

The price of diesel in May 2020 was 65.74. link But it was more than a year ago.
The below graph shows the historical price and how rapidly the prices increased (mainly due to the crude oil price increase)

One more observation.
November 2020, crude oil price was $47.79 per barrel and diesel price 74.67
November 2021, crude oil price was $83.91 per barrel and diesel price 104.47
If the crude price further goes up, the base price will increase and the vat charged by states will go up (since they are based on percentages). Excise duty is already a massive fixed amount of Rs.33/litre. Hope another percentage component is not added to excise duty.
On another note, lowering the excise duty will automatically lower the states earning through the vat.

[ValarMorghulis]

Excise duty reduced on fuel.
Petrol -Rs.5
Diesel - Rs.10
Reduction on prices to be effective tomorrow.