[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by Deeps

You think it was the power that got you A to B faster in those conditions??

Did I say so? Thought I said available power was sufficient.

Originally Posted by Deeps

You really think that the CRV is an SUV and is physically bigger had nothing to with it?

The point being discussed was the usability of 'power'. Obviously the CRV wouldnt be able to weave through traffic like a car, or take sweeping curves at speeds that a car can. However, the CRV has very obvious advantages in power (the way it kept creeping up on my rear view everytime it got space) and at the end of the day the person who used his advantages better ended up reaching faster.

Originally Posted by Deeps

On re-reading you earlier post, i'd suggest that you get rid of the mentality that because you are older you are more credible.

Never claimed to be more credible, did I? Thought I said:

Originally Posted by Steeroid

However, a few years, a few cars and a few hundred thousand kms down the line I tend to look at vehicles in more ways than one.

Originally Posted by Deeps

PS: this thread has the quickest replies i've ever seen here.

You're damn right it does. However, we're getting too personal here and besides we're digressing from the original topic.

PLEASE REVERT TO ORIGINAL TOPIC. I will accept PMs on what you guys think of me as a person, to save this thread!!!

Cheers

Steer

[LLL]

returning to original subject about fiat being overhyped in india...

i believe fiat is a biggish manufacturer only in India, SA and Brazil.

In India, its doing badly...you dont need any links...

In South Africa, Fiat doesnt have a product in top 10.

check this link:
http://www.autoworld.co.za/search/choice.asp

http://www.carsurvey.org/countrymode...iat_Siena.html

In Brazil, but i have seen horrible reviews;

Palio: http://www.carsurvey.org/countrymode...iat_Palio.html

[Stratos]

Originally Posted by LLL

Palio: http://www.carsurvey.org/countrymode...iat_Palio.html

That is truly terrible. The owners are not ready to buy anymore FIATs

[Shan2nu]

From the link :
The worst car, I have ever owned!
What things have gone wrong with the car?
The car came already from the manufacturer with 6 defects:
Noises and knockings from undefined parts of the car.

Noise coming from the front suspension.

Noise coming from the left front wheel.

Knockings from the steering wheel, when turns the from both of sides.

Noises from the dash.

Drivers seat faulty and causing noisy.

Problems at long of the two years of ownership:
Alarm failed at 1000.

Oil leaks coming from the gearbox at 2500.

Noise coming from the gearbox when hook the third gear at 3.700.

Air con failed at 4.000
Reverse light not working at 5.300.

Headlamps replaced at 6.400.

IlLumination dash replaced at 7.800.

Oil leaks from the carter at 8.400
Front electric windows (both) refused to up at 9.600.

ImMobilizier system failed at 10.200.

Air con failed at 11.800.

Driver's timing seat belt recalled at 12.700
Handbrake not holding at 13.600
Gearbox replaced at 14.800.

Electric locks failed and keep unlocking by themselves at 15.500.

Front speaker blow at 16.000.

Brake pads replaced at 16.700.

Clunk in the front wipers at 17.000.

Clutch replaced at 18.000
Clunk in the steering at 20.000.

Rear Seat started to wear badly at 21.600.

Noise coming from the trunk at 22.300
Suspension buShes replaced at 25.000.

Oil filter replaced at 28.000.

Water pump replaced at 30.000.
General comments?
If you value your money and your patience take a note:
never buy a fiat!

They are so poor built as the quality from the dealer service!

Make sure you keep distance from these cars!

Avoid any car from this manufacturer!

Stay away from palios!

This car it's a an reliable load of junk!
Poor built quality, underpowered not comfortable and unreliable!

Ok, i'm not a Fiat fan and it doesn't really make a diff whether it's good or as this article says "the worst car to be owned" but, looking at the number of problems this one car has had within a short period, all i can say is "He is the worst owner i have ever seen".

Brake pads and clutchs don't wearout at 16700-18000kms unless you torture them.

Just goes to show that this owner hasn't bothered maintaining his car and is trying to hold the car responsible for it. Give me any car which you feel is the least reliable and i bet i can maintain it better than what this guy has done with his Palio.

I have no respect for this bloke from Brazil.

Ironically, the very next article goes something like this

Excellent return in performance for its price
What things have gone wrong with the car?
Absolutly nothing has stopped working with the car. Everything remains as new after 25000km. Only problem I've encountered is a slight aligning problem in the front suspension. The problem could not be solved with minor alingment, so it was necesary to turn to the dealer. No major work, but surely something you would like to do at the dealer's.
General comments?
Ive driven almost everything, from VW Beetles, to BMW's, and I think this is an excellent car for its price. It won't probably outrun a 1.4 Clio, or a 1.4 Corsa, but it certainly outperforms them in braking (by far) and sharp cornering.

The gearbox works perfectly from third up (it accelerates uniformly), but there is a considerable "hole" between first and second. I don't know if the gearbox is the same for most models, but my car is an 99 EDX 1.3 MPi made in Venezuela.

Shan2nu

[lamborghini]

This is something i will never believe.
I have had a siena diesel (miss it alot) which did 65Kkm and was used on trips to Jaipur, Mahabaleshwar , Pune quite often and it never broke down.
If you look at it, from the stuff i read, the cars has underperformed because the owner was negligent and nothing else.

[Steeroid]

I wouldnt believe any of that Brazilian's complaints either - no car can be that bad, even a Fiat.

My personal experience with the '03 Alfa 156 - I had problems with the Tiptronic (paddle shift) gears at about 6k which the dealer allegedly fixed though it still gave me scare occasionally, tie-rod problems at about 8 k and when I noticed the gearbox dripping oil at 9.5 k I sold it at a whopping loss after the next service.

Enjoyed driving it, but not at that price for about 6 months - would've been cheaper to rent an Alfa for 6 months, except that none of the fleet operators would touch a Fiat.

I should've listened to my friends...

Steer

[cream]

hey guys,

have you noticed that the guy who started this thread has disappeared? typeO negative - where are you???

btw, overrated or underated is a personal thing - when someone wants performance as a criteria - then he may buy a fiat or a merc etc in his budget.

if he wants economy - vfm etc, he may go in for maruti suzuki / tata etc.

now just imagine the guy who wants vfm and economy - he buys a fiat or a merc...he will curse the car no end and vice versa.

of course - the fault lies in the buyer - not the car.

there is a car for everyone -

we all know the background of the ford mondeo - but you can count the no of them in india on your fingertips...

and guys - equating the no. of cars sold - or the sales success of the cars to the quality is wrong. there is no direct / indirect relationship here.

around the world, crap has been sold to consumers giving the impression that they are great products...and people have lapped them up like they are god's gift to mankind!

there is a product for the left side of your brain - IMO the palio, the BMW etc

and there is a product for the right side of the brain - the indigo, the merc

which side dominates defines who you are

personally, i am a great fan of the palio - having the palio d myself - choose it over the indigo, indica, getz and the esteem di.

does that mean anything? - not really. it just means that i liked the palio more than those other cars - and thats what matters to me.

if many people love the same car - a company can survive and make profit. and that's how the story goes...

shalom,

[amit]

In Brazil, but i have seen horrible reviews;

I read that review a long time back. I don't know if its true or not. Maybe it is. When you make millions of cars there is bound to be a faulty piece coming out of the assembly line. Does that mean that all cars made by that particular company are bad? I have read plenty of poor reviews on Hyundai at the same site. I have read plenty of such reviews on Toyota and Honda's at the top gear site. But yea, i will agree that Japanese cars are more reliable.
By the way, City Rover with a better design, better more powerful engine, better features etc. hardly sells in UK. Does it mean that Indica is over-hyped/rated?

[LLL]

if many people love the same car - a company can survive and make profit. and that's how the story goes...

true - the story is not working for Fiat unless they get their ASS and website up and running...

By the way, City Rover with a better design, better more powerful engine, better features etc. hardly sells in UK. Does it mean that Indica is over-hyped/rated?

it simply means that its not a great product for UK market or is not being marketed properly. it is doing well in India.

Every market has some local factors. A good product will sell almost everywhere (Toyota, Honda and even Hyundai) and a bad product will not scorch the markets anywhere.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by amit

By the way, City Rover with a better design, better more powerful engine, better features etc. hardly sells in UK.

1. The name Rover is bad enough - they're not known for small cars.

2. Its overpriced in that market - I dont know who did the math, but the idea of sourcing cars from cheaper manufacturing destinations should be to offer low cost cars, not to make a killing with bigger margins.

3. With Shanghai Automotive taking a stake in Rover, remains to be seen if Tata is interested in pushing the City Rover experiment. They seem to be doing much better with their own branding and sales arrangements in places like South Africa.

Finally, the Tata Indica is among the top 3 sellers at least in this country while the Palio/Petra/Fiat World Car isnt anywhere near the top 10 in any of the countries that it sells in.

If a model sold about 26,000 units in the first year and has managed to sell about 14,000 more in the next three despite bringing out more variants and going thru more promotion and re-branding exercises than any other, then there must be something wrong.

The auto industry in India has been riding an upswing, with EVERY manufacturer doing better every year. If the Fiat can manage to sell progressively lesser numbers in such a situation, can you blame it on just the management? They have rebranded, re-engineered and re-positioned their cars and even changed their brand ambassador but it just keeps selling lesser numbers every year - you cant blame the management for not trying. So it does look like many people dont like the same car, for some reason.

As for left-side-of-the-brain appeal, this would apply only to the variants with 1.6 engines - not to the 1.2 and the 1.9 D. How many 1.6s were sold in the 40,000 they've managed over the last 4 years?

I'm also seriously amused by the line of thought that equates Palios with BMWs.

Steer

[amit]

Palio/Petra/Fiat World Car isnt anywhere near the top 10 in any of the countries that it sells in.

Palio is among the top ten in Brazil.

So it does look like many people dont like the same car, for some reason.

hello?!?! Where have you been? Looks like you are seriously out of touch with reality! The Palio and Petra are liked and respected cars in India. Many people who buy the Santro or Wagon R would rather have bought the Palio. The reason the cars don't sell are :

1. No confidence in Fiat India management. There is a perception that the company may pull out of India anytime and do a Peugeot or Daewoo on us.

2. Years of botching up on After sales service. Though the company has taken measures to correct this and it is slowly getting better, it will still take time for Fiat to be known as a company that provides good after sales service.

3. Perception that the Palio is a fuel guzzler. Indians are experts in exgerrarating and panicking. People who got 10 kmpl from a hatch 3 years back started commenting that the car gives just 7! NV is better but again it will take time for this perception to go away.

Palio is neither under-rated nor over-rated in India. It doesn't sell because of the above points. Once these things are corrected you will see sales climbing up and then maybe the actual topic will be posted here " " Are Hyundai's/Tata's over-rated"

[LLL]

Palio is among the top ten in Brazil.

Can u pls provide a link to substantiate that claim?

[typeOnegative]

Hey this thread has grown.

I am not in office on Saturdays and Sundays and hence the absence of replies. I am totally in agreement with Cream (and other Fiat owners. ). The point is that Fiat is not 'over-rated'. Maybe Steeroid took it too far or used the wrong word(s). But there is no denying that the current Fiat breeds in India have some excellent characteristics and do not deserve the sales that they are enjoying (or not enjoying) right now.

Just because some one got a defective piece, or some one claims lower mileage does not mean that the car is 'over-rated' or 'over-hyped'. The fact remains that Fiat cars are far better built than contemporaries in its class. For a person like me (whom normally_crazy says buys with his heart) the Fiat is value for money. I would have bought a Baleno if it was 50k cheaper. But I would not touch the others (Ikon, Indigo, Esteem, Accent etc) .... Because there is something about those cars that does not appeal to me. For instance I test drove the Indigo Petrol and the moment I sat in it I just felt that there was something wrong. I don't know. Maybe it was the sticker that was not stuck properly. Maybe it was the plastic. Maybe it was the asthmatic performance of the car. Maybe it was the 'I am not so interested' air of the sales personnel. I do not know. I just did not like it.

And that is the point - as cream has put it - there is a car for everyone.

I am also surprised in the condescension shown by some people here. Hey come on. So what if Fiats do not sell? Sales do not make a great car. :(

Maybe if I had choice I would not have chosen Fiat. But IMHO, right now, in India, Fiat cars are the best for a guy like me.

Another question - don't you think Toyota and Honda cars are over-hyped? And that these companies generally tend to dump their products in India. Granted these companies make very good cars (like the Accord and the Camry). But do you really get and can you really afford these cars? For example a Honda Accord retails for 16,000 - 30,000 USD in the US. Why does not Honda sell its lower range Accord here? Because they feel an average Indian does not deserve a great car right? Think about it.

[moralfibre]

Good day to all... when it comes to FIAT I guess I got to talk and have my word... well cant say much now... I am beginning work on a practical analysis for Fiats where I am going to involve the following cars on test for all criteria:
Fiat Uno, Siena, Siena Weekend, Palio, Adventure. I have managed to source all the cars...the day I would be doing this is going to be tentatively after 4th of April and would atleast take 10-12 days to have an entire report with analysis, Pictures and everything else... DONT want to make this sound interesting unless it is done.. till then hang tight... Adios!!!

[sivadas]

I own a Petra and I am very very happy with it. I have tried Accent, Ikon, NHC, Baleno etc. and like Petra more than any of them. But I clearly understand these are all decent cars and have few strong points of thier own. But majority of people go by impression as per which Fiat Palio/Petra stand no chance to its competion. That is why most of the people here think Fiat cars are underrated and Steroid, you are telling it is overated

Finally, there is this tendency amongst many to rubbbish other cars when they decide that what they own/like is the best.

Exactly Steroid! Like many people have done on many other Makes/Models, if you say "I don't like this Manufaturer/Car, but dont know why", people will understand that. But the moment you try to justify your vague hatred with non existant facts that will become just wate of time.