Are Fiat Cars over-rated?

Steeroid · 21st March 2005, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by amit

hello?!?! Where have you been? Looks like you are seriously out of touch with reality!

http://www.cybersteering.com/pulmai.../news050201.rtf

this link was posted in another thread.

Cheers

Steer

DRC · 21st March 2005, 15:20

This is my first comment on this thread..
I neither say the Fiat cars are underrated nor overrated..
Looking back, How Fiat did, They really never cared about the buyer,
They always produced cars with their own specs.. Remember, when all hatch backs which were being sold were in the range of 50-60 BHP, and this guy whacked a 100 BHP "small car". And Palio became the god of car lovers..
What's good here, They produced good car. Positive!

Whats Bad? They gave it to the wrong hands to sell.

Now Caoming back..
Did Palio gave real good features to die about? or greatest technology as other mafturers did?
Not really, They still didnot give CRDI, when everyone introduced, they tried to continue to sell Uno, non compliant to emmission norms in Non-metros. Goof ups over goof ups...

ABS, Airbag, tilt steering, adjustable head light beam... No!

They just went on producing cars which were selling in latin america, AND required minimum engineering to sell in India. They only produced cars which THEY felt like producing.. (Bring multipla, sell it properly and it sells like crazy, You bet.) Market study, sensitivity were certainly missing..

Then How did Palio sell (did they?) among Santros, Zens, Indicas, etc.. (I am comparing wrong again!)..... Those who wanted to buy for a car for a purpose bought Marutis Santros etc.. Those who knew what they want to buy AND they wanted to buy a car whose specs MATCHED with Fiat's orbitraty specs BOUGHT FIAT...

DRC · 21st March 2005, 15:21

BTW, I own a petra 1.6
I know my choice is right.

typeOnegative · 21st March 2005, 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRC

This is my first comment on this thread..
I neither say the Fiat cars are underrated nor overrated..
Looking back, How Fiat did, They really never cared about the buyer,
.....Then How did Palio sell (did they?) among Santros, Zens, Indicas, etc.. (I am comparing wrong again!)..... Those who wanted to buy for a car for a purpose bought Marutis Santros etc.. Those who knew what they want to buy AND they wanted to buy a car whose specs MATCHED with Fiat's orbitraty specs BOUGHT FIAT...

Nice one DRC. But I have a question. Except for the Accent CRDI, which other car in the Indian market (affordable that is) has this technology? What you say about Fiat is true. They should have done things better. But by the same yardstick, Maruti sucks big time.

typeOnegative · 21st March 2005, 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRC

BTW, I own a petra 1.6
I know my choice is right.

LOL. Petrol or Diesel?

Steeroid · 21st March 2005, 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by sivadas

But I clearly understand these are all decent cars and have few strong points of thier own.

Finally, we seem to be coming to the point - which is that every car has its own set of strengths and weaknesses. Couldnt have put it better, Sivadas !

This thread was started by typeO since I raised the point of 'over-hyping' (not Over-rated, as I have pointed out in an earlier post) a particular brand on this forum. This is not to say that the brand does not have its own strengths - the point of this forum was to take a sanity check and point out the fact that there are other vehicles in the market which have similar qualities.

No one vehicle can address ALL requirements or appeal to ALL market segments equally. The reason I brought up the point was that I read quite a few of the 'which car' recommendations and came across a Palio-Petra-Syndrome (PPS?) wherein this model was being recommended across the board, regardless of whether the requirement was for Power, Fuel Efficiency, Comfort, Build Quality, Reliability or other attributes.

This set me thinking - if this car is all that and more and still not selling, isnt there a possibility that its being over-hyped ?

Now that you have summed it up so well, I would like to rest my case. Not before clarifying that I have nothing against the manufacturer - I am in the market for a Fiat Millicento (bug Fiat), and am willing to pay a good price for a very well maintained example.

Cheers

Steer

Steeroid · 21st March 2005, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

LOL. Petrol or Diesel?

LOL, you're the one who got all worked up about the brand TypeO. You should know that the Diesel is 1.9 litre ! Petrol is 1.2 and 1.6.

Anyway, nice to wind up my contribution in this post with a reply to you!

Cheers

Steer

typeOnegative · 21st March 2005, 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeroid

LOL, you're the one who got all worked up about the brand TypeO. You should know that the Diesel is 1.9 litre ! Petrol is 1.2 and 1.6.

Anyway, nice to wind up my contribution in this post with a reply to you!

Cheers

Steer

You got me there. I should have read better. Thats the problem when you are at work and trying to read quick. Besides there is no Petra 1.2. Atleast not yet.

I should make it clear here that I did not get worked up about the brand. I had been saying what Sivadas was saying for quite sometime, though in different words, yet you wanted to do some selective reading. Suit yourself.

And as for over-hyped versus over-rated, over-rated was the word you used. Nice to know you meant otherwise.

DRC · 21st March 2005, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

Nice one DRC. But I have a question. Except for the Accent CRDI, which other car in the Indian market (affordable that is) has this technology? What you say about Fiat is true. They should have done things better. But by the same yardstick, Maruti sucks big time.

Agree!, What I mean, is, when a new demand comes for the technology, other mafrs are quick to respond. Accent, Good example, In its class, Mahindra, responded, Safari from TATA, Maruti and Ford may not be concentrating on diesel as their petrol siblings are selling good.
Take for example, Adjustable headlamp beam, even M800 has it. Fiat may be thinking of selling it in non-metro where the regulation is not applicable.

[/quote]Maruti sucks big time.[/quote]
Yes as a car , May be. As a manufacturer they are good.

My petra is 3.5 month old now, It has its share of problems and pleasures too,
Know what I get a good milage too on Petra.

typeOnegative · 21st March 2005, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRC

Agree!, What I mean, is, when a new demand comes for the technology, other mafrs are quick to respond. Accent, Good example, In its class, Mahindra, responded, Safari from TATA, Maruti and Ford may not be concentrating on diesel as their petrol siblings are selling good.
Take for example, Adjustable headlamp beam, even M800 has it. Fiat may be thinking of selling it in non-metro where the regulation is not applicable.

Quote:

Maruti sucks big time.

Yes as a car , May be. As a manufacturer they are good.

My petra is 3.5 month old now, It has its share of problems and pleasures too,
Know what I get a good milage too on Petra.

Post up a bit more on your car. I am getting my Petra next week or if I am lucky this weekend.

Can't wait to drive it.

Regarding Maruti, well they are good manufacturers no doubt. With their Japanese parentage it would be criminal if they were not. Regarding the CRDI engine, well, you are spot on with that observation.

Floyd de Souza · 21st March 2005, 17:20

Hi guys!

I just saw this thread and decided to post my own opinion as a Palio S10 owner. Let me put it this way...you see, buying a car his a highly involved decision, and why is that? Because you are plonking a sizeable sum of money and do not want to take a risk. Yet I, after taking a risk and buying a Matiz and then selling it for the price of say a dozen bananas...took the same risk and went in for a Palio...because my heart was stronger than my head...you see I love cars as most if not all of you do. If the Palio was as reliable and fuel efficient as a Japanese car..and it still did not sell, then I would consider it underrated. If Daewoo was going great guns and the Matiz still did not sell, then I would consider it underrated...and there Steer is right on the ball when he says that most cars do not give you the best of everything. The Japs have mastered the art of designing cars for mass market. They give you a car which gives you a little of everything and the icing on the cake is great reliability and economy of ownership. So are the Jap cars over..whatever..its the same to me? Now as you move to higher segments, the focus shifts to value in relation to brand image...and that is where the Japs are not able to make any headway despite brands like Lexus etc.
Yeah I too have had plenty issues with my Palio...but I thoroughly enjoy driving the car. So I have decided that while I own it, I will enjoy it and for my next car...maybe a Toyota or a Honda. And who knows...by then Fiat may be back to where they are supposed to be.
So well..let me put it this way...a car which delivers more than expected is underrated and a car which promises more than it delivers is overrated. In an overall sense, I would say that Fiat cars probably promise more and deliver less and hence are overrated. In the final analysis it all boils down to customer perception and expectation and that is why Fiat is currently at the bottom of the heap. They are just not able to meet customer expectations.

typeOnegative · 21st March 2005, 17:29

Nicely put Floyd. Even though I disagree with your contention that Fiats are over-rated.

DRC · 21st March 2005, 17:36

Well said, Floyd de Souza,
I guess you have got the definitions right!

Steeroid · 21st March 2005, 18:24

Standing

for Floyd D'Souza.

He has, in a few well-chosen words, summed up most of what we have been talking about for the last two or three days.

Steer

Steeroid · 21st March 2005, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

Nicely put Floyd. Even though I disagree with your contention that Fiats are over-rated.

And typeO, Floyd owns a Fiat and you dont - not yet, at least - so give him credit for what he says, because he has been pretty clinical in his analysis.

OVER AND OUT, no more from me on this topic!

Steer

21st March 2005, 15:20	#62
DRC BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cockpit Posts: 911 Thanked: 64 Times View My Garage	This is my first comment on this thread.. I neither say the Fiat cars are underrated nor overrated.. Looking back, How Fiat did, They really never cared about the buyer, They always produced cars with their own specs.. Remember, when all hatch backs which were being sold were in the range of 50-60 BHP, and this guy whacked a 100 BHP "small car". And Palio became the god of car lovers.. What's good here, They produced good car. Positive! Whats Bad? They gave it to the wrong hands to sell. Now Caoming back.. Did Palio gave real good features to die about? or greatest technology as other mafturers did? Not really, They still didnot give CRDI, when everyone introduced, they tried to continue to sell Uno, non compliant to emmission norms in Non-metros. Goof ups over goof ups... ABS, Airbag, tilt steering, adjustable head light beam... No! They just went on producing cars which were selling in latin america, AND required minimum engineering to sell in India. They only produced cars which THEY felt like producing.. (Bring multipla, sell it properly and it sells like crazy, You bet.) Market study, sensitivity were certainly missing.. Then How did Palio sell (did they?) among Santros, Zens, Indicas, etc.. (I am comparing wrong again!)..... Those who wanted to buy for a car for a purpose bought Marutis Santros etc.. Those who knew what they want to buy AND they wanted to buy a car whose specs MATCHED with Fiat's orbitraty specs BOUGHT FIAT...
	() Thanks

21st March 2005, 15:21	#63
DRC BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cockpit Posts: 911 Thanked: 64 Times View My Garage	BTW, I own a petra 1.6 I know my choice is right.
	() Thanks

21st March 2005, 17:20	#71
Floyd de Souza BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 320 Thanked: 225 Times	Hi guys! I just saw this thread and decided to post my own opinion as a Palio S10 owner. Let me put it this way...you see, buying a car his a highly involved decision, and why is that? Because you are plonking a sizeable sum of money and do not want to take a risk. Yet I, after taking a risk and buying a Matiz and then selling it for the price of say a dozen bananas...took the same risk and went in for a Palio...because my heart was stronger than my head...you see I love cars as most if not all of you do. If the Palio was as reliable and fuel efficient as a Japanese car..and it still did not sell, then I would consider it underrated. If Daewoo was going great guns and the Matiz still did not sell, then I would consider it underrated...and there Steer is right on the ball when he says that most cars do not give you the best of everything. The Japs have mastered the art of designing cars for mass market. They give you a car which gives you a little of everything and the icing on the cake is great reliability and economy of ownership. So are the Jap cars over..whatever..its the same to me? Now as you move to higher segments, the focus shifts to value in relation to brand image...and that is where the Japs are not able to make any headway despite brands like Lexus etc. Yeah I too have had plenty issues with my Palio...but I thoroughly enjoy driving the car. So I have decided that while I own it, I will enjoy it and for my next car...maybe a Toyota or a Honda. And who knows...by then Fiat may be back to where they are supposed to be. So well..let me put it this way...a car which delivers more than expected is underrated and a car which promises more than it delivers is overrated. In an overall sense, I would say that Fiat cars probably promise more and deliver less and hence are overrated. In the final analysis it all boils down to customer perception and expectation and that is why Fiat is currently at the bottom of the heap. They are just not able to meet customer expectations.
	() Thanks

21st March 2005, 17:29	#72
typeOnegative Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Vikhroli, Mumbai, India Posts: 1,503 Thanked: 27 Times	Nicely put Floyd. Even though I disagree with your contention that Fiats are over-rated.
	() Thanks

21st March 2005, 17:36	#73
DRC BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cockpit Posts: 911 Thanked: 64 Times View My Garage	Well said, Floyd de Souza, I guess you have got the definitions right!
	() Thanks

21st March 2005, 18:24	#74
Steeroid Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: N.A Posts: 7,046 Thanked: 2,751 Times	Standing for Floyd D'Souza. He has, in a few well-chosen words, summed up most of what we have been talking about for the last two or three days. Steer
	() Thanks