Are Fiat Cars over-rated?

Rudra Sen · 21st March 2005, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRC

Whats Bad? They gave it to the wrong hands to sell.

Is that the case? All over the country? With most dealers?
I'm just throwing questions cause I don't know the answers. Obvious and one of the reason come to my mind that's FIAT as a company hasn't given the neccessary support to it's dealers. If there anything else apart from that..gentlemen please throw light.

RX135 · 21st March 2005, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floyd de Souza

Hi guys!
So well..let me put it this way...a car which delivers more than expected is underrated and a car which promises more than it delivers is overrated. In an overall sense, I would say that Fiat cars probably promise more and deliver less and hence are overrated. In the final analysis it all boils down to customer perception and expectation and that is why Fiat is currently at the bottom of the heap. They are just not able to meet customer expectations.

Nice analysis. But wrong conclusion. You say they promise more and deliver less. Now, how do we substantiate it? Let's see.

Do Fiat cars promise FE, they dont. Do they promise absolute highest quality standards like Japs? Nope. (Well! there are some Jap companies calling back cars due to issues).

What do they promise? Excellent performace. Take any 1.6 car. Excellent ride. Take any Fiat car. Excellent balance of handling and ride. Again take any car. Safety? they are safest in their category. ABS + Airbags were available in GTX when no other cars thought of it. Do you want to say they dont fulfill what they promise?

A/S/S was the worst thing that happened to Fiat. It was not the cars, but things, other than the car, that hampered the sales.

So, they are neither overrated neither overhyped.

hell_rider · 21st March 2005, 21:07

going off topic here...rather talking about a different manufacturer.

DRC, i believe you mentioned above that MUL as a manufacturer was good, maybe their cars sucked.

I would in fact take the opposite view. Across the board, factoring every possible parameter, MUL has got to be the most unexciting manufacturer in the indian context. They have not come out with an original idea since the ice age. all they do is follow orders from suzuki. they still are far from building a car ground up on their own. bulk of their revenue is from models thats are hitting the two-decade mark.

People give MUL high points for build quality. i think thats a load of crap. if you keep building the same damn car for 15 years, you *better* build it well. thats the least i would expect from you. i mean atlas cycles are built well, bajaj scooters are built well too.

All that MUL had going for them, pre-Tata, was, value for money and great A.S.S. Tata was initially considered as options for people who could not afford anything else. But that is fast changing.

Look at what the Maruti 1000s and later the Esteems were priced at when they were launched. it was highway robbery. They got a whole big subsidy to build a common man's car and they came out with the 1000. they knew it would sell because there was no viable alternative then. now they have curled their tails up. they are literally giving away the baleno these days.

Personally i would rather go the tata way than the MUL way, simply because the guys at Tata Motors are not sitting on their rear ends. they are trying to innovate. their products may not be as refined as MULs, but then they are pricing it appropriately. and this gives me a personal sense of pride in owning a car whose manufacturer, I know is trying to grow, maybe not as fast as I would like, or in the direction I would like, but there is momentum and thats very important to me.

So to sum up, I would say, MUL cars may be well built and good, but as a automobile manufacturer, with respect to vision, market awareness, engineering initatives and innovation, MUL sucks.

With all this talk about FIAT's future being so undecided and worrisome for prospective buyers, has anybody ever considered, just for argument's sake, what would happen if Suzuki chose to disassociate with MUL ? MUL would be up **** creek, without a paddle.

typeOnegative · 22nd March 2005, 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeroid

And typeO, Floyd owns a Fiat and you dont - not yet, at least - so give him credit for what he says, because he has been pretty clinical in his analysis.

OVER AND OUT, no more from me on this topic!

Steer

I have given him credit.

Though I do not agree with him. What is wrong with you?

v_s_natarajan · 22nd March 2005, 14:41

I have been reading this thread for a while. I want to give the
first hand experience of a palio 1.2 owner.

I wanted a safe, solidly built car which will last long, both the
body as well as the engine below 5 lakhs and good looking too.. 2 or
3 kms less for a litre of gas was okay.
I checked out and test drove and compared the specs.. of all cars:
santro, zens, 800, Indica, Palio. Palio met whatever I wanted..
I have been driving for an year and the car is very good to drive
about. It does not have a great pick up but makes it up with a
steady climb.
I never worried about the ASS since I was very sure it never would
require any great maintenance. The fact is the after sales service
is very good at Chennai.

Given another chance, I will buy it again.
Is it over rated.? On the contrary, it is under-rated. For the
readers info.., there was a time, when an accent was chasing me all
the way from Chennai to Bangalore in the Highways.

If somebody like Steroid says he can beat up Petra with his accent,
I will bet my last penny that he could never do it. The Petra
engine is like Cheese. It is not like a lottery to get a good
trouble free Fiat Car. I know many people who have great palios and
petras and siennas.

Accent is a good car and that is about it. There are lots of Good
cars in India too. Zen is a good car. 800 is a good car. Santro is
a good car. Upto what sense and level. That varies with people's
need and perception.

Why does not Fiat Sell.?
Fiats sell where people want a great car in all senses. Not Tin
Boxes which give 15 kms per litre. Not many people want to sell
their palios too.

Oh BTB, I have driven various cars in the last 24 years. I am of
course still not used to the stop and go traffic in India.

RX135 · 22nd March 2005, 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by v_s_natarajan

If somebody like Steroid says he can beat up Petra with his accent,
I will bet my last penny that he could never do it.

I would surely love to whip some Accents on the express highway, once I cross 2000 km on odo

It definitely weighs some 105kg less than Petra and supposedly produces 3 horses more, which should make it very very interesting.

typeOnegative · 22nd March 2005, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by RX135

I would surely love to whip some Accents on the express highway, once I cross 2000 km on odo

It definitely weighs some 105kg less than Petra and supposedly produces 3 horses more, which should make it very very interesting.

Hmm Petra against the Viva. That will be interesting. I will want to put my baby through her paces too once she is run in.

Though I must confess the Viva is a good car - better than the plain jane GVS.

v_s_natarajan · 22nd March 2005, 15:14

not to mention that superb 1.6L engine which is one of the best engines anybody ever made

typeOnegative · 22nd March 2005, 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by v_s_natarajan

not to mention that superb 1.6L engine which is one of the best engines anybody ever made

Dont speak so highly of it. :( Otherwise you will be accused of 'Fiat-bias'.

LOL

Yes. That engine is a killer. Though the Accent Viva has a good engine too.

Shan2nu · 22nd March 2005, 15:45

I seriously suggest you guys sort this out on a track. That will be interesting. My money is on the Petra but, it'll also depend on driver skills since both cars are evenly matched.

Shan2nu

v_s_natarajan · 22nd March 2005, 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

Dont speak so highly of it. .

i was speaking as a matter of fact.
And Viva too has got a great DHC engine, if i remeber correctly

normally_crazy · 22nd March 2005, 22:27

i think if its gonna be sorted on a track...the viva will simply be blown away by the petra.

drifter · 22nd March 2005, 22:43

i bet on the petra too...but it will be close.

Drifter

Harrie · 22nd March 2005, 22:47

Ya as a package the petra is far better. The 1.6 L engine rocks. I am addicted to the way it delivers the power. My only gripe is that the seating is not to my liking. I like the OHC's laid back style.

Deeps · 23rd March 2005, 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by RX135

I would surely love to whip some Accents on the express highway, once I cross 2000 km on odo

It definitely weighs some 105kg less than Petra and supposedly produces 3 horses more, which should make it very very interesting.

Maybe i have misunderstood. But do you mean to say that the Accent (doesn't matter which one) has 3 horses more than a Petra???

21st March 2005, 21:07	#78
hell_rider BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 538 Thanked: 61 Times	going off topic here...rather talking about a different manufacturer. DRC, i believe you mentioned above that MUL as a manufacturer was good, maybe their cars sucked. I would in fact take the opposite view. Across the board, factoring every possible parameter, MUL has got to be the most unexciting manufacturer in the indian context. They have not come out with an original idea since the ice age. all they do is follow orders from suzuki. they still are far from building a car ground up on their own. bulk of their revenue is from models thats are hitting the two-decade mark. People give MUL high points for build quality. i think thats a load of crap. if you keep building the same damn car for 15 years, you better build it well. thats the least i would expect from you. i mean atlas cycles are built well, bajaj scooters are built well too. All that MUL had going for them, pre-Tata, was, value for money and great A.S.S. Tata was initially considered as options for people who could not afford anything else. But that is fast changing. Look at what the Maruti 1000s and later the Esteems were priced at when they were launched. it was highway robbery. They got a whole big subsidy to build a common man's car and they came out with the 1000. they knew it would sell because there was no viable alternative then. now they have curled their tails up. they are literally giving away the baleno these days. Personally i would rather go the tata way than the MUL way, simply because the guys at Tata Motors are not sitting on their rear ends. they are trying to innovate. their products may not be as refined as MULs, but then they are pricing it appropriately. and this gives me a personal sense of pride in owning a car whose manufacturer, I know is trying to grow, maybe not as fast as I would like, or in the direction I would like, but there is momentum and thats very important to me. So to sum up, I would say, MUL cars may be well built and good, but as a automobile manufacturer, with respect to vision, market awareness, engineering initatives and innovation, MUL sucks. With all this talk about FIAT's future being so undecided and worrisome for prospective buyers, has anybody ever considered, just for argument's sake, what would happen if Suzuki chose to disassociate with MUL ? MUL would be up **** creek, without a paddle.
	() Thanks

22nd March 2005, 14:41	#80
v_s_natarajan BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: chennai Posts: 261 Thanked: 3 Times	fiat/palio I have been reading this thread for a while. I want to give the first hand experience of a palio 1.2 owner. I wanted a safe, solidly built car which will last long, both the body as well as the engine below 5 lakhs and good looking too.. 2 or 3 kms less for a litre of gas was okay. I checked out and test drove and compared the specs.. of all cars: santro, zens, 800, Indica, Palio. Palio met whatever I wanted.. I have been driving for an year and the car is very good to drive about. It does not have a great pick up but makes it up with a steady climb. I never worried about the ASS since I was very sure it never would require any great maintenance. The fact is the after sales service is very good at Chennai. Given another chance, I will buy it again. Is it over rated.? On the contrary, it is under-rated. For the readers info.., there was a time, when an accent was chasing me all the way from Chennai to Bangalore in the Highways. If somebody like Steroid says he can beat up Petra with his accent, I will bet my last penny that he could never do it. The Petra engine is like Cheese. It is not like a lottery to get a good trouble free Fiat Car. I know many people who have great palios and petras and siennas. Accent is a good car and that is about it. There are lots of Good cars in India too. Zen is a good car. 800 is a good car. Santro is a good car. Upto what sense and level. That varies with people's need and perception. Why does not Fiat Sell.? Fiats sell where people want a great car in all senses. Not Tin Boxes which give 15 kms per litre. Not many people want to sell their palios too. Oh BTB, I have driven various cars in the last 24 years. I am of course still not used to the stop and go traffic in India.
	() Thanks

22nd March 2005, 15:14	#83
v_s_natarajan BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: chennai Posts: 261 Thanked: 3 Times	not to mention that superb 1.6L engine which is one of the best engines anybody ever made
	() Thanks

22nd March 2005, 15:45	#85
Shan2nu Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hubli - Karnata Posts: 5,533 Thanked: 125 Times View My Garage	I seriously suggest you guys sort this out on a track. That will be interesting. My money is on the Petra but, it'll also depend on driver skills since both cars are evenly matched. Shan2nu
	() Thanks

22nd March 2005, 22:27	#87
normally_crazy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 4,369 Thanked: 528 Times View My Garage	i think if its gonna be sorted on a track...the viva will simply be blown away by the petra.
	() Thanks

22nd March 2005, 22:43	#88
drifter Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,488 Thanked: 75 Times View My Garage	i bet on the petra too...but it will be close. Drifter
	() Thanks

22nd March 2005, 22:47	#89
Harrie BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: KA 03, KL 12, TN 38 Posts: 701 Thanked: 36 Times View My Garage	Ya as a package the petra is far better. The 1.6 L engine rocks. I am addicted to the way it delivers the power. My only gripe is that the seating is not to my liking. I like the OHC's laid back style.
	() Thanks