[Montoya]

hey veyron1.. well as far as maruti as concerned it has a power to weight of 99 bhp.. their advertisements says that as the weight of Esteem is 860 which cums out to be 98.8 something hence rounded off to 99.. and not 97 bhp/ tonne.

And as far as the stability goes of both the cars.. i had a 1.5 Exi and now have a New Gxi which i got last year so have driven the 1.5 Exi for almost 2 years and the Gxi aka the NHC for 7 months i can say that the stability of the NHC is some what similar to the OHC 1.5 if not better but the handling of the OHC is way better then the NHC. Have taken the OHC till 190 speedo speed and it seemed to have good stability but have not taken the NHC above 160 km/h as still not runned it too much and also it wont go till 190 It was stable at 160 but the OHC was better but overall the seem to be equally stable

Common Veyron 1 the NHC does not feel so bad in handling also(not saying since i own one) but yes it doesnot feel so surefooted as the OHC but not that bad either.

I agree there is a definite difference in handling and the OHC handles way better but the NHC is not that bad either. Have taken shapr corners at 175 in the OHC 1.5 and it didnot squel that much. Ok that was maybe my tyres were wider.Hehe. Lets see how the NHC behaves with 195 rubber.

No i disgree the windsreen on the OHC and the NHC is same. The NHCs screen is more raked and i apologise for writing by mistake OHC rather then NHC in my previos post. Its the NHC which seems to be noisy due to short bonnet and raked screen and not the OHC.

No the roll ons of the NHC are faster then the OHC.
here are the figures..

40 - 100 NHC takes 17.76 and the ohc 1.5 takes 18.7 wheras the OHC 1.3 took 22.36 these are in 4th gear..

NHC is way faster in 5th then its rivals.

Yup Baleno is faster as its then that its horses waken up..

[veyron1]

ummm...montoya, the kerb weight of the esteem is 875 kgs for the vxi version,& 870 for the lxi; check out the car's service manual and also the company specs- not the ads...
by the way, these kerb weights -sourced from autocar india. also, overdrive specs confirm your claim- they quote it to be 860 kgs, now- but check out the car's service manual and the sep. 2001 ed. of overdrive- both quote the car's kerb weight to be 870 kgs and power:weight of 97 bhp/tonne, respectively.

and hey man- i didn't mean any offence... just saying that the OHC was a better handler and had better performance, but that's about it; the new city scores on space, comfort, et al;

and as for the windshield rake, i said almost same....and dude, less rake angle means less resistance, so i guess you meant to say that the NHC has more/higher widshield rake angle than the OHC, or that the NHC has a low raked windshield. ( i.e, the windshield of the OHC was more steeply raked-[steeply raked = less angle] . so extremely/highly raked=extremely low. so,the NHC windshield=less/low raked=more rake angle =higher rake angle = more wind resistance.

but check this out- the NHC has a Cd of 0.29 as compared to the OHC that had a Cd of 0.27- which makes the NHC more wind-resistive.....which means that the new city will produce more wind noise, along with other factors. (again, figures courtesy OD)

and as for the roll ons, you are right about the 1.5... but i was referring to the vtec. but hey, nice pointer anyways- i guess i had incorrect figures on the NHC and OHC 1.5 roll-ons....or did i.....

but hey, man- the NHC is a good car nevertheless, and i like it- but it's just that i liked the old one a weee li'l bit more.... but one thing i crib about the NHC is that the honda dudes didn't place any temp. gauge in the console!!! i mean, come on honda, you could've done better....

and get this, the new vtec doesn't have a temp. gauge either!!! what's going on??? are the guys at honda too confident that their customers will never overheat or blow up their engines??

[Montoya]

Hey veyron1, maybe we both seem to be write hehe.. arguing on 2bhp is not worth the energy. Since before i had an esteem before the City 1.5 and its manual said 860 i said so. Actually i had a Vx and now the newer ones are the Vxi with some aditional 15 kgs of more equipment. ANywayz 2 bhp wont matter much on the Esteem.

Haha the NHC scores on all parameters except handling and performance and yeh looks for some. I agree 100% the old citys performance was in a league of its own which no car can match at the price. Even i feel the lack of power in my New City but then cant help it just wait for the Vtec.

Yes the NHC is more noisy due to wind then the OHC as i noticed on speeds excess of 140(posted this in some posts before on this thread) Also this raked angle cause it to heat up excessively.

I think the NHC should cut through the wind like an Arrow?


WEll the roll ons are courtsey Autocar December issue.

yeah i too liked the old one more when i think from the heart. but nevertheless the new one is overall better.

Well as far as the temp gauges are concerned even i felt the same till i bought one. When the engine is cold there is a green light with C glowing and when the car warms up the green light goes and when it heats too much a read light comes in red. I think this seems better as when i think i should move the car the green light goes off. And as far as blowing on Hondas are concerned thats the most frequent in formaula one BAR

[Shan2nu]

but check this out- the NHC has a Cd of 0.29 as compared to the OHC that had a Cd of 0.27

Woah!!! Hold on a sec. I know the NHC has a CD of .29 but, where'd you get the .27 figure for the OHC?

Shan2nu

[veyron1]

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

Woah!!! Hold on a sec. I know the NHC has a CD of .29 but, where'd you get the .27 figure for the OHC?

Shan2nu

the figures are courtesy the company, and i read about it in the car's technical spec. manual from a honda workshop- i dunno what that manual was, i still am confused about that; it wasn't a service or owner's manual....maybe the company dudes from honda had sent one to the dealers as a circular or something..... also, i saw the same figures being quoted in some old comparo...dunno which.... but will try to remember and post the same....

and ya, the OHC was one slippery eel......

montoya, it does seem that we're just about on the same chord here, he...he....

and sorry man, the NHC vtec won't cut through the winds like a razor.... aerodynamically, the efficiency is just the same as the current city....

and man, doesn't that temp. overheat warning system bug you?? i mean, we all preffered the old gauge system...i know you must have, too...... sorta gave us a fair idea of the EXACT engine temp; especially if you knew your car well, didn't it??

[Montoya]

hey veyron1,

So you mean to say the OHC will cut the wind better or the NHC i am

defientely the OHC was a tremedous vehicle. Even today there isint any vehicle which can match the sport character of the Vtec. Yes the Baleno does match but of the 1.5 non Vtec.

We both Seem to strike the same chord..

Yes the current City and the Cuty Vtec to be launched will be same aero wise but i just read some where i guess Shantanus post that the NHC will cut through the wind like an arrow?

Well before i was used to the temp meter. But now since its missing i really dont care too much as i find this system better. Not yet overheated the car(touch wood).. well the old method was better but then now since honda is giving this new method what can be done. You cant place it yourself. Even the Santro has no tacho due to lack of space. But the temp gauge really doesnot matter to me atleast.

Cheers.

[zaphod]

After driving the OHC, NHC and Baleno, while the OHC seems more rev-happy (in the character of my old esteem) , it seems at par with the baleno on performance - however the ohc gearshift is a lot slicker and the seats lower which feels better (on th eother hand, the baleno's seats with side bolstering provide a snug feel while cornering fast) - Both the NHC and Baleno feel happier in the city as you can easily crawl in 2nd gear at absurdly low speeds without needing to constantly press the clutch to prevent the car stalling.

but one thing cant figure out - why did overdrive mention the NHC faster than the baleno upto 60 in their 8 car roundup (available on their website) - was it a simple typo or is it true ?

thanks

zaphod

[Montoya]

Originally Posted by zaphod

but one thing cant figure out - why did overdrive mention the NHC faster than the baleno upto 60 in their 8 car roundup (available on their website) - was it a simple typo or is it true ?

Hey zaphod. Well can you give the link to the article and i guess the NHC is faster then even the Vtec till 20 kmph thats cause of the low end torque at 2700RPM

[adya33]

Originally Posted by MONTOYA

Hey zaphod. Well can you give the link to the article and i guess the NHC is faster then even the Vtec till 20 kmph thats cause of the low end torque at 2700RPM

anyone ready to race with NHC in bumper to bumper traffic?

[Montoya]

Originally Posted by adya33

anyone ready to race with NHC in bumper to bumper traffic?

I am game.. get your car will race at peak hours

p.s which car do you drive

[adya33]

Originally Posted by MONTOYA

I am game.. get your car will race at peak hours

p.s which car do you drive

i drive Opel Astra. wheneve I am coming to mumbai will let you know.

[veyron1]

well, montoya, the OHC cuts through the wind better, as it has a lesser coefficient of drag, hence being aerodynamically more efficient.

true, the baleno is a superb car...but it can take the fight to a vtec, too!!! that is simply because- consider this scenario; the baleno has an advantage in engine capacity, or cylinder volume, of almost 100 cc more than the city; so, if both the cars are modded by proper tuners, the baleno will produce more horsepower, technically, because, the additional 100 cc can be utilised.

but mind you, a stock baleno can't match the performance of the city vtec; but in modded form, the winner could be the baleno; by a hair's breadth, i might add...

yes, shantanu did say somewhere that the NHC Vtec is aerodynamically efficient... but the efficiency is just about the same as that of the NHC, and lesser than that of the OHC (both in SOHC and Vtec guises)...

yeah, i guess you are used to the temp. system by now... i might get used to it too, if i drive the car often enough... but i was just saying that i miss the gauges.. it just isn't the same, you know...

and zaphod, yes, the OHC and baleno are similar under city driving conditions- it's only on the highways that you can stretch their legs and enjoy... and yes, the baleno's gearshift is slightly harder, as compared to the city;

as for the acceleration figures; well, i guess they must be true- but the baleno is way faster than the NHC to 100 kmph.

the reason for that must be the gearing; while both cars use their initial power in the first to reach 60 kmph, the baleno shows it's power advantage after 60; also, the city takes two shifts to touch 100- first to second, and second to third- whereas, the baleno requires only one shift- from first to second- to touch 100; the baleno hits the rev limiter at 112 kmph (speedo read) in second gear!!! i say so because i have tried it myself!!!

and here's the link; i think this is the one that zaphod was referring to...

city comparo

but check out the link, and you'll find that- the pics of the cars, above their names, have been mixed up!!!

and guys, racing an astra against the new city??? tsk, tsk..... that too in city traffic....

[adya33]

Originally Posted by veyron1

and guys, racing an astra against the new city??? tsk, tsk..... that too in city traffic....

u need something to pass your time sometimes!

[Montoya]

Hey veyron1,

IMHO i guess the NHC is more aero efficient.. but then since you saying the OHC it may be.. but then what ever the aero is the OHC is a flying machine

well i agree baleno is a superb car...but a fight to the Vtec is possible ofcourse a unmodified Vtec hehe because when a Vtec is a Vtec and will always be a Vtec hehe

but wont a modded vtec beat a modded Baleno.. but that depends on the modifier..

well aerodynamics is a matter of body design and all the OHCs very similar in aeros and so are the NHCs similar to each other i mean similar to NHC vtec or be it CVT..

Well i understand buddy what you mean the gauge looks nice to view it gives you a satisfaction yah my cars cool.. hehe

But since Baleno has higher gear ratios it compromises on the gear factor that you talking about. Since the Baleno can be in 2nd at 15kmph as well as 112 as you say

as for the acceleration figures; well, i guess they must be true- but the baleno is way faster than the NHC to 100 kmph.

The NHC is no match for the Baleno.. These cars are world apart except their prices..

Yeah i know Maruti cars are very tall geared.. even the Esteem touches 100 in second and by the way the NHC goes till 45 in 1st and 92 in 2nd and 120 in 3rd..

Well the link you mentioned is a old one which has read before in Overdrives issue..

and guys, racing an astra against the new city??? tsk, tsk..... that too in city traffic....[/

Haha well even if it be a Merc vs a NHC i am game as i know that in City traffic it depends on driver and not on car..

[veyron1]

hi montoya,

well.. the OHC was more aerodynamically efficient; like i said before...

as for the modded cars, like i said before (there's that term again..), the baleno has a cc advantage; so, an all-out modded baleno can beat an all-out modded vtec.

i tell you so, because in the earlier MRF and JK rallies, i have seen balenos beat the vtecs on the gp1, and unrestricted (allows heavy engine mods as per regs., but no turbos allowed) categories...

and yes, my friend, you are right about their gearings, although i believe the baleno is good for a true speed of 110 in 2nd- meaning a speedo read of about 115-118...

u need something to pass your time sometimes!

true, man......

Haha well even if it be a Merc vs a NHC i am game as i know that in City traffic it depends on driver and not on car..

true as well... but in city traffic... you also need a H-U-G-E amount of luck as well- you never know when somebody might "pop up" in front of you..... which is why i prefer proper street/ track racing....he..he...

and getting back to the "original" headline of the topic, does anybody else have any news on the new vtec?? i heard that honda is planning to launch the civic first, now- against the optra, lancer, corolla (low end version), etc... come on honda, launch the Vtec NOW... the civic can wait... what do you say? or maybe we prefer an equally/ more powerful civic than the city Vtec ( similarly priced, of course!!)....??