Fiat India - Management Resigning!

typeOnegative · 12th April 2005, 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by sivadas

That actually means Steeroid just loves his Accent

Sivadas congratulations. You have solved the mystery it seems.

Steeroid · 12th April 2005, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

Sivadas congratulations. You have solved the mystery it seems.

Steeroid has just sold his Accent long distance. Hopes to finish the formalities and look for a new car next month.

I was amused by the comparison to the Lancer. That car may have a bad pair of engines, but it definitely is a lot more comfortable than any of the C-minus cars, Petra or any other.

Steeroid · 12th April 2005, 13:13

Will one of the moderators close / lock this topic ? Looks like we're the only ones who're so worried about Fiat's fate. The market doesnt seem to care, nor do the management of Fiat or indeed anyone else.

Lets open it up once more when and if there's more news on the Fiat front. Else this topic will deteriorate into a discussion on each other's cars - my car is better than yours and the Petra is better than all other cars, blah blah blah.

RX135 · 12th April 2005, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Lets open it up once more when and if there's more news on the Fiat front. Else this topic will deteriorate into a discussion on each other's cars - my car is better than yours and the Petra is better than all other cars, blah blah blah.

Common, now don't get upset, steer! I did not want to compare/ridicule any car, but was genuinely confused about what you wanted to say. I always loved Lancer, it's just so sexy and comfy. And of course, I dont have to write more about Petra :-)

The news about Fiat management being taken over by ICICI+ Hinduja seems to be a rumour. So, let's keep fingers crossed till we hear something concrete.

nmdeccanet · 12th April 2005, 15:15

I guess most people in this thread would like to be Fiat customers only if Fiat would let us!!!

sachinjairath · 13th April 2005, 17:12

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...ow/1066395.cms

I hope this would clear the confusion.....

Cheers

typeOnegative · 13th April 2005, 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by sachinjairath

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...ow/1066395.cms

I hope this would clear the confusion.....

Cheers

Old news dude. The fact is that we are wondering if the take over/ change of ownership news is true or no.

Samurai · 13th April 2005, 23:00

Last month I had mentioned that my father-in-law had test driven Petra-D in a Fiat road show that was held all around Udupi-Mangalore area. I guess many people did buy Palio/Petra cars during this road show promotion.

Today I was informed that the Mangalore Fiat dealer just closed shop. Guess what all the people who bought their Fiat just a month back from them would feel now...

With that Karnataka will only have two Fiat dealers now, one in Bangalore and other in Hubli(?).

lamborghini · 13th April 2005, 23:43

Well if i was Fiat i would also close Sundaram and open a factory outlet.
Hyundai and mitsubishi all have their own company outlets and it is time that Fiat also opens one.
And Petras ride quality is much better then Lancer but lets not get into a debate and be banned.

merve_extreme · 14th April 2005, 00:04

see how people change.Flip-Flop masters.

deepakhon · 15th April 2005, 12:00

Guess what? This thread is destined to make more waves. Please allow me to paste my correspondence with Niki Desai from Fiat India. I'd also like to mention that I am a Fiat customer.

================================================== ======================

Hi Deepak,

Apologizes for the delay in replying to your mail. I know you have sent
another mail just a short while ago and I shall reply to the same also
but
then that would be in a diplomatic manner.

1. Please bring up the website. Let's for some reason assume that the
website is undergoing construction. But pray, would it take two months
to repair it? This shows two things: a) Fiat India is lethargic b)
Fiat wants to get out of India aka Peugeot and Daewoo.

Ans . The website is not being updated but is being totally revamped.
Now
this takes time as we are dependent on our parent headquarters in terms
of
approval for design , contents etc. Coming to the example of Daewoo, it
did
not go out of the country, it went bankrupt ( the parent company) and
also
the stakes involved in their Indian operations were major Financial
institutions like ICICI , IDBI etc. apart from Daewoo of Korea. In case
of
Peugeot it was a walkout of the joint venture partner and again there
was
involvement of FIs apart from the Doshis of Premier.

Thus the point I am trying to imply is that the exposure of the foreign
car
manufacturer was not complete in their operations. In case of Fiat
India
operations more than 97% stake is with the parent company. Thus the
commitment level are very higher.

Coming to the example of web site maintenance let me give you example
of the
worlds largest car manufacturer which also has a model rather marque in
India of German origin. The web site of this company is also down since
last
6 months. And the world's largest Air conditioning company which also
operates in India has their site down since more than 9 months! Are
they all
pulling out. No they are well established players especially the latter
being a leader in their industry. So please do not gauge / evaluate a
company by it having a web site or it being down for some time.

2. Market your cars. Let me give you an example: One of my friends was
looking for a mid-sizer in the range of 5-6 lakhs. He did a survey of
every car in India and he went for Ikon flair. I just checked with him
whether he had test-driven Fiat Petra. Guess his response - Fiat
"what"? Poor guy didn't even know that there existed a car by name
Petra. So much for Fiat's advertising. My personal experience is that
just having a good product does not guarantee sales; but marketing the
product well and providing a good after-sales sells it well. Consider
the fact that when Hyundai came to India, many hadn't even heard the
brand name. They confused it with Honda. You need to credit it to
Hyundai for their marketing. Please take them as a case study and see
how they have established their brand name in India.

Ans 2. Thanks for the feedback. In case of Marketing let me tell you it
is a
notion that advertising is the only parameter in creating an equity in
customer's mind. No doubt it is important but then are also other
strategies
to gain a market share. The company had adopted a strategy of keeping
the
price low and putting in a host of features to make the price value
equation
extremely favorable for the Petra. Hyundai's example is a very good one
that
you have citied and it is a lesson for all marketing personnel.
Regarding
after sales service the company is gearing up on this front but then it
can
be radically changed over night . It is a process which takes its time.

But then you rightly said that marketing actions of the company needs
to be
in line with those of the existing market players.

3. Beef up your after-sales. Can you believe that for a city like
Bangalore, there is only one dealer? I can see lots of Palios in
Bangalore now. I am sure B'lore has a good percentage of Palios. But
the fact that it has only one dealer is pretty bad. Why cant Fiat tie
up with someone like Bosch multi-car service centre or MyTvs or
something like that and make our lives easier?

Ans. 3. Point taken but then again a gradual process.

4. Why cant you provide the safety data for Palio/Petra? Something
like EuroNCAP data, or whatever Palio is tested against. I for sure
know that Palio is a safe car. But how many people know that? Why dont
you start an advertising campaign highlighting Palio/Petra's strong
points? My advise is to kick up a strong advertising campaign and
spread awareness among the masses about Palio. Please spend money
smartly instead of paying a hefty sum and presenting a Ferrari to one
Mr. Sachin Tendulkar. The very fact that Fiat roped in Sachin and
produced the limited edition car in his name (just 500 of them) and
couldn't sell them properly, that too in Sachin crazy India speaks
volumes about Fiat marketing. The last I heard of S10, they were going
at the price of Palio 1.2 ELX. What a pity!

Ans. The concept of limited edition with a price escalation is still
nascent
to the country. But for your information we also understand that the
country's largest car manufacturer had also introduced a 2 door car on
their
popular hatch back model. This model was also then being sold for a
song.
Regarding the safety data we shall look into this aspect and is a very
good
suggestion.

5. Re-introduce the brilliant GTX. Make sure you do something on the
mileage front so that people can enjoy the power and mileage of the
vehicle. This is one country where even when someone is driving a
Ferrari, people ask "gaadi average kyaa deti hai?". Please bear this
in mind when designing cars for India. If you ask me why Asian tin
boxes are selling more in India as compared to Palio, the single
reason is "mileage". Asians gave Indians what they wanted and won the
race, but Europeans gave Indians what they thought that Indians will
want. This explains why they are not selling. Tell me, which European
brand apart from Skoda is doing well (in the sub 10 lakh range)?
Ans 5. - Mileage and performance ( not to be equated with acceleration
but
also factors like road stability, handling, top speed, braking etc.)are
inversely proportional. If the mileage is good then the latter takes a
back
seat. Therefore you will find a trend in cars from specific
manufacturers
American Car Makers- High on Comfort
European Car Makers- High on Safety
German Car Makers- High on Technology
Japanese Car Makers- High on Fuel efficiency

Nevertheless the market today is being matured and customers are well
informed of what is being offered to them. There expectation levels
would
soon be in line with their counterparts in advanced countries and then
with
the new safety and emissions laws the so called tin boxes would not be
able
to sustain. Today by dropping the prices they are surviving but then
even
this product push will then not draw the crowds.

6. Introduce some brilliant vehicles that Fiat has; for example Panda.
Panda will be the best vehicle in the Indian context. Bring it to
India as soon as you can. I'd love to see Fiat Stilo and the brilliant
Alfa 148 and 156 in India, but I better not be over-optimistic :-(

Ans. parent Head quarter is continuously apprised of the current and
expected model launches of competition car. As regards the introduction
of
the cars mentioned it is a strategic decision and nothing can be
divulged at
this stage.

7. Introduce better technology in India. All auto enthusiasts know for
sure that Fiat's JTD/JTS/UniAir and Volkswagon/Skoda's Pumpe Dusse are
the best diesel technologies in the world (I'm not considering cars of
Merced C Class range and above here). Why wait for Maruti to start
producing the engines here? Believe me, Maruti will definitely
cannibalize all Fiat sales if they introduce JTD in their Swift. Act
fast and introduce the engines faster than Maruti can start
manufacturing them here. Then market it well here.

Ans. Point taken.

8. Fiat can think about introducing an SUV in India. I am aware that
Suzuki and Fiat are in a joint project on this and I hope for the
best. Fiat in the meanwhile can concentrate in bringing the Multipla
to India. The fact that it is a six seater will be taken well if
introduced in the diesel format. But please change its nose.
Ans. Any change in the body shape is no easy task. It involves changes
in
dyes and fixtures. Thus prima facie it seems it is easy to just alter
a
shape little bit here and there but then this is not have a mass car
manufacturer operates. Any change is then subjected to tests which is a
huge
affair. As regards SUV , no comments on this question.

9. Last but not the least, introduce your other brands like Alfa,
Masaretti, Lancia and Ferrari. Just tomtom the fact that Fiat is
related to Ferrari. That itself can do wonders to your sales. Just
imagine what a brilliant vehicle like an Alfa can do in India. You can
position it against Toyota Junkolla (Corolla) and the brilliant Skoda
Octy. It will be a fight worth watching.
Ans.You are right. But first we shall have to do something about the
road
conditions and the fuel quality and later getting the right dealers
with the
appropriate tools for servicing such cars.

These are my views and concerns regarding Fiat in India. I
sincerely hope that they will be taken in the right spirit and acted
upon. Wish Fiat a long and a happy stay in India.

Deepak thanks for your views it was beneficial for us to read them. But
then
every opinion has a different perspective and this you have to
understand
from our side. We gave the Indian customers the best technology at the
best
price with the best advertisement and biggest celebrity. It clicked
initially but then what happened is history. Marketing as they say is
not a
science. You learn by mistakes or rather experience. There is no single
formula for success. Even newly introduced cars from the country's
largest
manufacturer with the best bollywood icon failed to click in the market
especially a product category where there is virtually not competition.
All I am trying to say is that Fiat wants to remain in India and has
plans
up its sleeve. Request you to just wait and watch.

As regards your query about certain joint ventures I am sorry I cannot
comment on anything at this stage. But then please note media is
powerful
and wise in the country. If they report something there must / could be
some
iota of truth in it.

regards,

Niki Desai
Marketing

================================================== ======================

deepakhon · 15th April 2005, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepakhon

As regards your query about certain joint ventures I am sorry I cannot
comment on anything at this stage. But then please note media is
powerful
and wise in the country. If they report something there must / could be
some
iota of truth in it.

Incase anyone was wondering what this means, I had sent another mail to Niki about the "rumour" about the joint venture of ICICI Venture (38%), Hindujas (31%) and Fiat itself (31%). This reply is regarding that.

shankaranand · 15th April 2005, 12:58

Why are we wasting time on this discussion. Fiat in India is History. Even if they bring new models, improve ASS, and improve advertising, it is very difficult to change one thing that matters in the customer mind. PERCEPTION. and I feel, it is very negative w.r.t Fiat.

puthari · 15th April 2005, 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepakhon

Incase anyone was wondering what this means, I had sent another mail to Niki about the "rumour" about the joint venture of ICICI Venture (38%), Hindujas (31%) and Fiat itself (31%). This reply is regarding that.

Great!!! - your posting of the response from the marketing cheif has given lot more exposure . About FIAT and Niki.

Dont be surprised when Nikki starts marketing a different Car company. We must pity that guy , he could not even try to bring up a website - now compares and gives instance of a AC company - Hello ! - Is the Cost of an AC equal to Fiat car ?.

What sort of an orgnization is it ? if it cannot provide basic information of the Dealers , Service centres across the country. For instance , there is no way I can find the Dealer/Service centre in Bangalore.
Wish you the best - Nikki - hope you do well in a different firm -

typeOnegative · 15th April 2005, 15:06

Do you really think that the management (edit : I meant for marketing) is better in other companies?

The difference is that Fiat has screwed up on all levels.

12th April 2005, 13:13	#123
Steeroid Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: N.A Posts: 7,046 Thanked: 2,751 Times	Will one of the moderators close / lock this topic ? Looks like we're the only ones who're so worried about Fiat's fate. The market doesnt seem to care, nor do the management of Fiat or indeed anyone else. Lets open it up once more when and if there's more news on the Fiat front. Else this topic will deteriorate into a discussion on each other's cars - my car is better than yours and the Petra is better than all other cars, blah blah blah.
	() Thanks

12th April 2005, 15:15	#125
nmdeccanet BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 26 Thanked: 0 Times	I guess most people in this thread would like to be Fiat customers only if Fiat would let us!!!
	() Thanks

13th April 2005, 17:12	#126
sachinjairath Newbie Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Delhi Posts: 2 Thanked: 0 Times	http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...ow/1066395.cms I hope this would clear the confusion..... Cheers
	() Thanks

13th April 2005, 23:00	#128
Samurai Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore/Udupi Posts: 25,826 Thanked: 45,514 Times View My Garage	Last month I had mentioned that my father-in-law had test driven Petra-D in a Fiat road show that was held all around Udupi-Mangalore area. I guess many people did buy Palio/Petra cars during this road show promotion. Today I was informed that the Mangalore Fiat dealer just closed shop. Guess what all the people who bought their Fiat just a month back from them would feel now... With that Karnataka will only have two Fiat dealers now, one in Bangalore and other in Hubli(?).
	() Thanks

13th April 2005, 23:43	#129
lamborghini Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 6,113 Thanked: 5,760 Times View My Garage	Well if i was Fiat i would also close Sundaram and open a factory outlet. Hyundai and mitsubishi all have their own company outlets and it is time that Fiat also opens one. And Petras ride quality is much better then Lancer but lets not get into a debate and be banned.
	() Thanks

14th April 2005, 00:04	#130
merve_extreme Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,359 Thanked: 18 Times View My Garage	see how people change.Flip-Flop masters.
	() Thanks

15th April 2005, 12:00	#131
deepakhon Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,441 Thanked: 65 Times	Guess what? This thread is destined to make more waves. Please allow me to paste my correspondence with Niki Desai from Fiat India. I'd also like to mention that I am a Fiat customer. ================================================== ====================== Hi Deepak, Apologizes for the delay in replying to your mail. I know you have sent another mail just a short while ago and I shall reply to the same also but then that would be in a diplomatic manner. 1. Please bring up the website. Let's for some reason assume that the website is undergoing construction. But pray, would it take two months to repair it? This shows two things: a) Fiat India is lethargic b) Fiat wants to get out of India aka Peugeot and Daewoo. Ans . The website is not being updated but is being totally revamped. Now this takes time as we are dependent on our parent headquarters in terms of approval for design , contents etc. Coming to the example of Daewoo, it did not go out of the country, it went bankrupt ( the parent company) and also the stakes involved in their Indian operations were major Financial institutions like ICICI , IDBI etc. apart from Daewoo of Korea. In case of Peugeot it was a walkout of the joint venture partner and again there was involvement of FIs apart from the Doshis of Premier. Thus the point I am trying to imply is that the exposure of the foreign car manufacturer was not complete in their operations. In case of Fiat India operations more than 97% stake is with the parent company. Thus the commitment level are very higher. Coming to the example of web site maintenance let me give you example of the worlds largest car manufacturer which also has a model rather marque in India of German origin. The web site of this company is also down since last 6 months. And the world's largest Air conditioning company which also operates in India has their site down since more than 9 months! Are they all pulling out. No they are well established players especially the latter being a leader in their industry. So please do not gauge / evaluate a company by it having a web site or it being down for some time. 2. Market your cars. Let me give you an example: One of my friends was looking for a mid-sizer in the range of 5-6 lakhs. He did a survey of every car in India and he went for Ikon flair. I just checked with him whether he had test-driven Fiat Petra. Guess his response - Fiat "what"? Poor guy didn't even know that there existed a car by name Petra. So much for Fiat's advertising. My personal experience is that just having a good product does not guarantee sales; but marketing the product well and providing a good after-sales sells it well. Consider the fact that when Hyundai came to India, many hadn't even heard the brand name. They confused it with Honda. You need to credit it to Hyundai for their marketing. Please take them as a case study and see how they have established their brand name in India. Ans 2. Thanks for the feedback. In case of Marketing let me tell you it is a notion that advertising is the only parameter in creating an equity in customer's mind. No doubt it is important but then are also other strategies to gain a market share. The company had adopted a strategy of keeping the price low and putting in a host of features to make the price value equation extremely favorable for the Petra. Hyundai's example is a very good one that you have citied and it is a lesson for all marketing personnel. Regarding after sales service the company is gearing up on this front but then it can be radically changed over night . It is a process which takes its time. But then you rightly said that marketing actions of the company needs to be in line with those of the existing market players. 3. Beef up your after-sales. Can you believe that for a city like Bangalore, there is only one dealer? I can see lots of Palios in Bangalore now. I am sure B'lore has a good percentage of Palios. But the fact that it has only one dealer is pretty bad. Why cant Fiat tie up with someone like Bosch multi-car service centre or MyTvs or something like that and make our lives easier? Ans. 3. Point taken but then again a gradual process. 4. Why cant you provide the safety data for Palio/Petra? Something like EuroNCAP data, or whatever Palio is tested against. I for sure know that Palio is a safe car. But how many people know that? Why dont you start an advertising campaign highlighting Palio/Petra's strong points? My advise is to kick up a strong advertising campaign and spread awareness among the masses about Palio. Please spend money smartly instead of paying a hefty sum and presenting a Ferrari to one Mr. Sachin Tendulkar. The very fact that Fiat roped in Sachin and produced the limited edition car in his name (just 500 of them) and couldn't sell them properly, that too in Sachin crazy India speaks volumes about Fiat marketing. The last I heard of S10, they were going at the price of Palio 1.2 ELX. What a pity! Ans. The concept of limited edition with a price escalation is still nascent to the country. But for your information we also understand that the country's largest car manufacturer had also introduced a 2 door car on their popular hatch back model. This model was also then being sold for a song. Regarding the safety data we shall look into this aspect and is a very good suggestion. 5. Re-introduce the brilliant GTX. Make sure you do something on the mileage front so that people can enjoy the power and mileage of the vehicle. This is one country where even when someone is driving a Ferrari, people ask "gaadi average kyaa deti hai?". Please bear this in mind when designing cars for India. If you ask me why Asian tin boxes are selling more in India as compared to Palio, the single reason is "mileage". Asians gave Indians what they wanted and won the race, but Europeans gave Indians what they thought that Indians will want. This explains why they are not selling. Tell me, which European brand apart from Skoda is doing well (in the sub 10 lakh range)? Ans 5. - Mileage and performance ( not to be equated with acceleration but also factors like road stability, handling, top speed, braking etc.)are inversely proportional. If the mileage is good then the latter takes a back seat. Therefore you will find a trend in cars from specific manufacturers American Car Makers- High on Comfort European Car Makers- High on Safety German Car Makers- High on Technology Japanese Car Makers- High on Fuel efficiency Nevertheless the market today is being matured and customers are well informed of what is being offered to them. There expectation levels would soon be in line with their counterparts in advanced countries and then with the new safety and emissions laws the so called tin boxes would not be able to sustain. Today by dropping the prices they are surviving but then even this product push will then not draw the crowds. 6. Introduce some brilliant vehicles that Fiat has; for example Panda. Panda will be the best vehicle in the Indian context. Bring it to India as soon as you can. I'd love to see Fiat Stilo and the brilliant Alfa 148 and 156 in India, but I better not be over-optimistic :-( Ans. parent Head quarter is continuously apprised of the current and expected model launches of competition car. As regards the introduction of the cars mentioned it is a strategic decision and nothing can be divulged at this stage. 7. Introduce better technology in India. All auto enthusiasts know for sure that Fiat's JTD/JTS/UniAir and Volkswagon/Skoda's Pumpe Dusse are the best diesel technologies in the world (I'm not considering cars of Merced C Class range and above here). Why wait for Maruti to start producing the engines here? Believe me, Maruti will definitely cannibalize all Fiat sales if they introduce JTD in their Swift. Act fast and introduce the engines faster than Maruti can start manufacturing them here. Then market it well here. Ans. Point taken. 8. Fiat can think about introducing an SUV in India. I am aware that Suzuki and Fiat are in a joint project on this and I hope for the best. Fiat in the meanwhile can concentrate in bringing the Multipla to India. The fact that it is a six seater will be taken well if introduced in the diesel format. But please change its nose. Ans. Any change in the body shape is no easy task. It involves changes in dyes and fixtures. Thus prima facie it seems it is easy to just alter a shape little bit here and there but then this is not have a mass car manufacturer operates. Any change is then subjected to tests which is a huge affair. As regards SUV , no comments on this question. 9. Last but not the least, introduce your other brands like Alfa, Masaretti, Lancia and Ferrari. Just tomtom the fact that Fiat is related to Ferrari. That itself can do wonders to your sales. Just imagine what a brilliant vehicle like an Alfa can do in India. You can position it against Toyota Junkolla (Corolla) and the brilliant Skoda Octy. It will be a fight worth watching. Ans.You are right. But first we shall have to do something about the road conditions and the fuel quality and later getting the right dealers with the appropriate tools for servicing such cars. These are my views and concerns regarding Fiat in India. I sincerely hope that they will be taken in the right spirit and acted upon. Wish Fiat a long and a happy stay in India. Deepak thanks for your views it was beneficial for us to read them. But then every opinion has a different perspective and this you have to understand from our side. We gave the Indian customers the best technology at the best price with the best advertisement and biggest celebrity. It clicked initially but then what happened is history. Marketing as they say is not a science. You learn by mistakes or rather experience. There is no single formula for success. Even newly introduced cars from the country's largest manufacturer with the best bollywood icon failed to click in the market especially a product category where there is virtually not competition. All I am trying to say is that Fiat wants to remain in India and has plans up its sleeve. Request you to just wait and watch. As regards your query about certain joint ventures I am sorry I cannot comment on anything at this stage. But then please note media is powerful and wise in the country. If they report something there must / could be some iota of truth in it. regards, Niki Desai Marketing ================================================== ======================
	() Thanks

15th April 2005, 12:58	#133
shankaranand BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 164 Thanked: 22 Times	Fiat is History Why are we wasting time on this discussion. Fiat in India is History. Even if they bring new models, improve ASS, and improve advertising, it is very difficult to change one thing that matters in the customer mind. PERCEPTION. and I feel, it is very negative w.r.t Fiat.
	() Thanks

15th April 2005, 15:06	#135
typeOnegative Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Vikhroli, Mumbai, India Posts: 1,503 Thanked: 27 Times	Do you really think that the management (edit : I meant for marketing) is better in other companies? The difference is that Fiat has screwed up on all levels. Last edited by typeOnegative : 15th April 2005 at 15:26.
	() Thanks