[RajeVenu]

Originally Posted by dheepak10

Everyone needs to follow traffic rules - Period! "Miniscule" number of accidents are still a cause of concern. I'm not sure why you are taking this so personally. Bad apples always exist and need to be addressed; just because they are a few, they cannot be ignored completely.

Sorry dheepak probably I have been misunderstood, my aim was to draw an analogy that the number of accidents caused being so miniscule that it does not require so much of dedicated thread bashing. I am with you that this aspect requires addressing even if it is quite low

The second worst behaviour followed in India is - If something is not suiting you, then change yourself. In that case, everyone who has something to complain about bad traffic sense will have to just sit at home.

You have just quoted a part of my post, the full para puts my argument into context. My point was not to turn a blind eye but to project that the traffic behaviour inside cantts are much better than outside. Even civilians on entering cantt do sedate driving and these include the government bus and trucks.

The third worst is that when someone has a concern or complaint, they actually don't take an action by making a complaint at the appropriate forum, but tend to discuss in public/private forums like TBHP and amongst friends. Request the aggrieved people to make a complaint at the appropriate forum, with pictures, if possible.

This is the best advice on this thread. Thanks for understanding

[CAPTAIN REX]

The Police in Chennai themselves do not follow rules (should be the same elsewhere too).
Cops ride with out helmets. Police cars park on the road obstructing traffic. Do not follow a 'lane' discipline. Drive along the wrong side of the road, etc.


Rules do not apply to them.


One of the umpteen times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDaG...ature=youtu.be

Police gypsy wandering between 2 tracks, and obstructing the traffic behind.

[V.Narayan]

Why utter the word 'Defence' in the same title as 'Police'. Sounds like chalk and cheese to me. Two more different organizations and with different values and completely different levels of discipline we would be hard pressed to find. In 38 years of driving have I found defence staff cars flouting traffic rules - yes a few times. Have I found them obeying rules - many many times. Have I seen a defence vehicle lying banged up in the city - not so far. The Police? - don't get me started. And even the cops are not all black sheep.

Some writers on this thread have expressed their angst of defence drivers swinging it on traffic rules and I don't doubt their experience at all. But to paint all 1.3 million men & women with the same brush is more than a tad unfair. For the residents of Pune - write to the Army Commander, Southern Command. If you don't get a reply or response then you have earned the right to grumble on social media.

I want our younger citizens to know that you can drive change in your own way. My experience dealing with various Govt agencies is that if you write at the right senior level and go meet them then it gets the ball rolling. Sometimes you need to be persistent but it works from solving specific issues to getting policy changes done. And you don't need to bribe to achieve this. Too many of us in our country assume there is no point in complaining and never try to discover the power of the citizen. I write this after careful thought and some valuable experience in this area.

[Aviatoraval]

Originally Posted by Sudipto-S-Team

Notwithstanding a few honourable exceptions, we love to flaunt our official right to flout public rules. It is seen as a perk that comes with the job. Our ministers beat up airlines personnel for planes taking off on time without waiting for them. Our army and police officials are no different.
No one has the right to disrupt public order, whether he gives his life on the border defending us or not. He is not doing it for free, for God's sake.
Just like he has to pay taxes he should obey traffic rules as well. At least his wife out shopping in Khan Market should.
Talking about the lofty things that army officials do - they are also the most corrupt lot in the country.
Ask any defence supplier how it works in the Indian Army and your so called respect for the defenders of our nation would vanish in no time.

I agree that No one (R) No one has the right to disrupt public order.

But it breaks my heart when you say " he gives his life : but not for free".
I would like to tell you that a soldier is paid to defend his country from all internal and external harm. he does his duty diligently and get paid for it. But in doing so he take a decision to even risk his life to achieve a greater goal. You cant pay him for that. (Yes you can still pay him by not saying things like this and appreciating his decisions)

And if you can buy someone's life, I would like to know how much is your's for?

I would also like you to prove that soldiers are the most corrupt lot? Kindly refrain making statements like this. It boils my blood (Yes I'm a serving soldier).

I know with this mentality and prejudice of yours you wont trust me, but if you can try to do so : I follow traffic rules, I wear seat belts, I don't pay toll tax because I'm exempted officially, I follow the laws of land, I do not have a single rupee extra than what is reflected in my pay slip though on in numerous occasions i have spend from my pocket for official things, I have brothers and sisters in forces who are same 99.99% as me.
A few bad apples i accept because we are no different, we are from same society.

But can you quote this 99.99% figure for your side.

At last if you are a defense supplier I would request you to at least don't provide me lowest sub standard quality stuff, my life depends on that (Trust me its not free, I even pay for my insurance that too with a higher risk element and lower saving element due to my nature of job profile)

Thanks.....But not all soldiers are corrupt

[VeluM]

Originally Posted by AVIATORAVAL

But it breaks my heart when you say " he gives his life : but not for free".

And if you can buy someone's life, I would like to know how much is your's for?

I would also like you to prove that soldiers are the most corrupt lot? Kindly refrain making statements like this. It boils my blood (Yes I'm a serving soldier).

A few bad apples i accept because we are no different, we are from same society.

You've replied to a 10 year old post, sir. However I can understand the reason. I myself would have, but have come to realise that these people cannot be educated no matter how many certificates they possess.

Originally Posted by AVIATORAVAL

At last if you are a defense supplier I would request you to at least don't provide me lowest sub standard quality stuff, my life depends on that (Trust me its not free, I even pay for my insurance that too with a higher risk element and lower saving element due to my nature of job profile)

Thanks.....But not all soldiers are corrupt

I was shocked when I read about this. Not only do our Armed Forces personnel pay for their own insurance policies (deducted at source) they are also charged a much higher premium due the risk associated with their work! The civil services on the other hand doesn't pay for their insurance, and suffer far less risk as part of their jobs. Double whammy for the forces.

On comparing the Defence to the police, well when was the last time one saw a soldier in uniform riding a bike without a helmet? Now think of how often the same occurs with the police. Corruption is the bastion of the civil services and police in India. The Armed Forces as you've mentioned is formed from society yet reflects far less of its ills.

The Army has a DnM course where officers are taught Driving and Maintenance of vehicles. These officers are put in charge of the Military Transport (MT) platoon - ever wonder why Army vehicles though ancient always look good. What training does a Traffic Police constable get. Do they even know the law or the motor vehicle act as much as a BHPian?

Police think they are the law, and the Babus think they are above it. Their children somehow inherit these traits with no effort or qualification other than who their "baap" is

[am1m]

Originally Posted by VeluM

Corruption is the bastion of the civil services and police in India.

Originally Posted by VeluM

Police think they are the law, and the Babus think they are above it. Their children somehow inherit these traits with no effort or qualification other than who their "baap" is

That's not being quite fair is it?

A lot of people are expressing outrage on this and other defense-related threads when someone chooses to criticize our defense personnel based on the examples of a few bad apples, but at the same time those same people seem to think that it's ok to paint all civil services and police personnel with the same brush.

Just like there are serving members of the armed forces, ex-servicemen and children/relatives of defense personnel who take offense at derogatory comments made about the forces, there are also members with ties to the civil services and police forces who can take exception to such comments made about them, right?

Let's either be mindful of everyone's feelings, or let's agree that we have the freedom of expression to express critical opinions (fact-based, of course) about any topic. Being a liberal at heart, I'd personally favor the second option. And the mods are there to ensure that the critical opinions are expressed in a manner suitable to the forum.

Originally Posted by VeluM

...well when was the last time one saw a soldier in uniform riding a bike without a helmet?

As a matter of fact, on my way to work at a previous job, every week during my commute, I used to see a few men in army uniform riding on the footpath to get to their base quicker than having to go ahead and make a u-turn.

Does this mean that I have a bad opinion of our entire armed forces? No. I merely point out this example to show that one can cite incidents to support any argument. I hold the Indian Defense establishment in the highest esteem and regard, and thank heavens that they are there and they are the great institutions that they are.

But I also think no institution should be above sensible criticism and the truly great institutions can surely stand a bit of it.

[VeluM]

Originally Posted by am1m

That's not being quite fair is it?

A lot of people are expressing outrage on this and other defense-related threads when someone chooses to criticize our defense personnel based on the examples of a few bad apples, but at the same time those same people seem to think that it's ok to paint all civil services and police personnel with the same brush.

Well unfortunately the extremes of criticism of both the Civil Sevices and police is well earned over the last 70 years. There is a reason the Armed Forces are known as great institutions - a reputation earned, not bestowed upon them.

Also regarding the police, the protectors and enforcers of the law breaking it with impunity is quite different from an Armed Forces personnel who (objectively rarely) does so. That would be like the Army inviting the enemy into the country for a few rupees.

Puts things in perspective?

Originally Posted by am1m

But I also think no institution should be above sensible criticism and the truly great institutions can surely stand a bit of it.

I agree with sensible criticism, but saying that the personnel of the Armed Forces should be happy to die for the salary they get is in no way sensible, that's just ridiculous. My 2 bits, over and out.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by VeluM

Well unfortunately the extremes of criticism of both the Civil Sevices and police is well earned over the last 70 years.

Personally, I agree with you on this. But anyone can also dig up enough reported incidents to support some similar claims about the defense forces. So my point is only about having some parity in freedom of expression. If one institution can claim the status to be above all criticism, so can another based on the good deeds of some of their representatives. After all, a number of policemen have also sacrificed their lives in the course of duty, a number of civil servants have implemented good policies that have benefited millions of Indians, right?

My simple point is that if one feels it's ok to criticize what might be sacred for someone else, then they should also be ok with others criticizing what could be sacred to them. Personally, I think nothing or no one should be above censure.

Originally Posted by VeluM

I agree with sensible criticism, but saying that the personnel of the Armed Forces should be happy to die for the salary they get is in no way sensible, that's just ridiculous.

Absolutely ridiculous, I agree.

[Aviatoraval]

Originally Posted by VeluM

You've replied to a 10 year old post, sir. However I can understand the reason. I myself would have, but have come to realise that these people cannot be educated no matter how many certificates they possess.

Actually i was going through the thread regarding new SUVs for ITBP and somehow landed on this thread. Read all the pages of this thread with all types of comments, but most of them had maintained the dignity. And then i stumbled over this individual.

Personnel preferences are granted but giving such a lowly comment. It reflects upon the character. Anyway to each his own.

Originally Posted by am1m

Personally, I agree with you on this. But anyone can also dig up enough reported incidents to support some similar claims about the defense forces. So my point is only about having some parity in freedom of expression. If one institution can claim the status to be above all criticism, so can another based on the good deeds of some of their representatives. After all, a number of policemen have also sacrificed their lives in the course of duty, a number of civil servants have implemented good policies that have benefited millions of Indians, right?

Absolutely right. In fact everyone appreciate when a civil servant do something to benefit the society, Be it a civil or police personnel.

I don't agree about a particular institution claiming the status to be above all in criticism. Also as I have said we all are from the same society so bad apples will be everywhere. However even after digging numbers do not match even if you go by the percentage.

At last change is the only constant, lets contribute for the betterment of nation without having petty tussle amongst us.