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Hi BHP-ians,

After my “sensational” new thread “mirror mirror on the wall, who is the ugliest of them all” comes this one. For a long time now, I feel vehicle design has become more a matter of convenience and practicality than anything else. Imagine the days when cars like the Triumph TR-3 and Spitfire could be easily imported by dealers and were available as affordable sportscars, the Impalas and the Cadillacs were the status symbols, the Buicks and Dodges were commonly seen on Indian roads. How many of us are happy with our “plastiky” Mercs, the “Bangled” BMWs, the hideous little Wagon-Rs?

My motto behind this new thread “Old Classic vs. New Plastic” is to know whether it’s just me who thinks and feels so strongly about this issue or there is this silent resentment within all of us here. To put things in the right perspective, let’s compare the old and new incarnations of some popular cars. I want you to choose one among each of the following and take a call on whether we are heading in the right direction in the field of car design:

IMPORTANT: PLEASE NOTE, HERE WE ARE TAKING A PICK BASED SOLELY ON THE EXTERIOR LOOK OF THE CAR AND ITS DESIGN APPEAL. PLEASE DO NOT FACTOR-IN THE INTERIORS OR TECHNOLOGICAL SUPERIORITY OF THE LATER MODELS.

1) The 2005 Chevy Optra vs. 2008 Optra Magnum
2) The 2000 Daewoo Matiz vs. 2008 Chevy Spark
3) The 1984 Maruti 800 vs. 2008 Maruti 800
4) The 2003 Wagon-R vs. 2008 Wagon-R
5) The 2001 Maruti Zen vs. 2008 Zen Estilo
6) The 2001 Maruti Esteem vs. 2008 Swift Dezire (Esteem’s replacement?)
7) The 1985 Mercedes-Benz 500 SEL vs. 2008 Mercedes-Benz S350
8) The 2002 Mercedes-Benz C-Class vs. 2008 C-Class
9) The 2002 BMW 5-series vs. 2009 Bangle-d 5-series
10) The 2004 Toyota Corolla vs. 2008 Corolla Altis
11) The 2004 Hyundai Sonata vs. 2008 Sonata Embera
12) The 2003 Lancer SFX vs. 2008 Lancer Cedia
13) The 2003 Ford Ikon 1.6 Sxi vs. 2009 Ford Ikon

Your comments and opinions are eagerly awaited. please: answer honestly!

Vikas

A thread on similar lines :
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/vintag...etro-cars.html

cya
R

Vikas, great thread!

Here are my views:

1) 2005 Chevy Optra. The car executed some class ( for me ) and the fact that it came with twin headlamps.

2) 2000 Daewoo Matiz. Feels more solid than Chevy Spark and looks better.

3) 1984 Maruti 800. The best Maruti 800 and one the best Maruti along with Zen, Baleno and XL7.

4) 2008 Wagon R. IMO, the grille can give Chevrolet Avalanche a complex.

5) 2001 Maurti Zen. No doubt here. One of the better Maruti car.

6) 2008 Swift Dzire. Better crash protection is the main reason.

7) 2008 S350. Much better and advanced. The interior is also much better.

8) 2008 C-class. The earlier was not good one and I never liked the looks and it was more of a compromise sedan unlike the present one.

9) 2009 Bangled 5 series. Here I just follow the heart of the car i.e. engine.

10) 2008 Corolla Altis : Better and more dynamically refined.

11) 2008 Sonata Embera. The earlier one was more in line with Civic class and not designed well IMO.

12) 2003 Lancer SFX : A car that happens to be one of the best looking and proportioned. Cedia is confused car.

13) 2003 Ford Ikon 1.6 SXi. The combination of handling and ride at that price point, plus a motor with strong bottom end and midrange coupled with lower gearing was in a class of its own. Appealed to a very specific group of people and family oriented " men " went in for Accent. This was one car that was built for " boys ".

Never knew that it was a sensational thread. Just checked it after you mentioned it here.

I dono much about mercedes & bmw, so let me go ahead and comment on a few cars
- Corolla to Altis is an expected make over to compete against the civic. Appreciate that.
- Ford Ikon to New Ford Ikon - The diesel engine make it attractive. The looks should be been much better.
- Esteem to Dzire- Maruti lost its perspective on market. Esteem provided very good driving comfort. The new Esteem should have been something like Palio stile.
- Matiz and Spark, The 1000cc is very good. The looks are modern, keeping the superior low center of gravity design same. Thanks to Ital design
- zen to estillo. I appreciate this move because zen was similar to Alto & 800. Estillo was something radical in design for Maruti.
- Maruti 800 - what can I say. There is a reason why motorised tricycles where banned in India.

The 2000 Daewoo Matiz vs. 2008 Chevy Spark -- Some improvements and some disappointments. While the new chevy has a more powerful engine compared to the Matiz, it looses out on front seat comfort (which slopes downwards) and weird steering wheel.

The 1984 Maruti 800 vs. 2008 Maruti 800 -- Nice improvement. Majorly only cosmetic updates, but a car costing that much you cannot expect the moon. In city driving it can put to shame with its peppiness and agility some of the bigger cars.

The 2003 Wagon-R vs. 2008 Wagon-R -- A step in the right direction, but i prefer the backside of the earlier wagonr to the new one. And i miss the rear split seats in the new one.

The 2001 Maruti Zen vs. 2008 Zen Estilo -- The bigger engine was alright, but the ZEN brand name deserved a more aerodynamic and sporty hatch, which the Estilo is not. Add to that tinny build.

The 2001 Maruti Esteem vs. 2008 Swift Dezire (Esteem’s replacement?) -- Now DZire is so much more than the Esteem in every sense, except for the weird looks. A sporty 1.6 lt petrol engine would increase the desirability and do justice to the Esteem replacement tag.

Well, I call it sensational due to the very strong comments (both +ve and -ve) that came pouring in! Did you read all of them?

I love the looks of the 2008 Optra. Looks more macho.

I don't like both of them. Probably 2000 was a year when we didn't have too many options. Now this design looks even more weird.

M800 is not meant to be a looker now. It is only because of its price tag. But it looks extremely modern in 1984.

2003 WagonR had an executive look. This one has a slightly more macho look. But still, a breadbox remains so. And the worst part.. Maruti didn't fix the gearbox.:Frustrati

2001 Maruti Zen was a gem of a car. Enthusiastic engine, smooth gearbox, nimble handling, excellent mileage, it had little to fault.
The Estilo is everything that the Zen isn't. And similarly the sales and popularity.

Esteem was extremely good looking then. Once MPFi 'ed, it had great power too. But Dzire looks yuck. They spoilt the Swift design too.. Wonder what the original Swift designer must be saying after looking at Dzire.

I love Bangled designs.

The 2004 Corolla had an executive look. The 2008 wannabe Camry doesn't look good at all. How can Toyota do this when they have Civic as their competitor?

Obviously the 2003 Ikon. The new Ikon looks horrible.


I have few more comparisons.


14. Palio Vs Palio Stile(MJD Grille)
15. Sumo Vs Sumo Victa
16. Qualis Vs Innova
17. Fiesta Vs Fiesta S
18. Indica Vs Indica Vista

My comments:
The Palio Stile has more character. I don't like the old Palio look. The headlamps looked like the small 'Chinese' eyes. The ones now look bigger like 'Indian' eyes.

Sumo Grande looks better than Victa, although not so good.

Innova all the way. It changed the Indian perspective about people movers.

Old Fiesta all the way. The Fiesta S looks odd. Its trying to look 'S'porty, but ended up looking confused.

Indica looked pretty good in its original avatar. Tatas spoilt it more and more with every 'improvement'. The Vista looks completely confused. It is looking like an original Indica kicked hard on its back side.

14) Palio Stile. Looks great.
15) Sumo. Had the original arrogant look. Victa was lost track. A slightly bigger grille would be good.
16) Innova. Excellent product.
17) Fiesta. Looked original. IMO the body is narrow to take those kink in headlights civic derived design. Also the body is tall to tolerate the new grille adn headlights.
18) Indica. We have a thread by GTO on this. Indica vista's relatively low take off is result of their own greed. Harsh words, but then it could have been infinitely better considering the good looking Indica.