Is there a market for premium hatchbacks in India?

SilentEngine · 26th January 2009, 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickatnite

There's a market in India for any vehicle that in NOT sporty, sleek or performance oriented. Witness the Wagon-R in the top 10 list for years.

You are generalizing here.
Success of WagonR is not related to it being not sporty. WagonR is successful because of its practicalities as a city car.

Yeldo · 26th January 2009, 20:57

A premium hatch priced around 10 lacs with a torquey Diesel, availability of auto 'box, comfy ride, supportive seats, safety kit including ABS, airbags & ESP, solid build, adjustable/ power everything and reliable service would definitely be of much interest to me.

karanraheja · 26th January 2009, 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by abhinav.gupta88

Also if VW comes up with the Golf, it needs to price it correctly to find success.

By the way, guys what's your view.
Even if Honda Jazz be overpriced(which it will be), will it be a success considering the Honda Badge?

I heard Golf is heading towards India soon , apparently its got an amazing diesel engine

. Jazz will sell cos of Honda and practicality, lets see if Honda offers engine options other than 1.2 p . But Fiat will be there with GP ( which i think if priced correctly will sell like hot cakes).Also GP has 1.3 MJD!! Fiat vs Honda battle seems quite interesting in this segment too.

Now where is Toyota??

Quote:

Originally Posted by harry10

I doubt that if Jazz is somewhere around 7+ it may sell in good quantity as most people inspite of the badge still look for a hatch in 5-6 range.

Quote:

Originally Posted by devarshi84

For the target Skoda had set for itself, its doing immensely well. Even Market reports have termed it as a success.
Also Fiat palio is selling more than Fiat's target of 250 units a month.

But as we approach 7 lacs and above its evident that Optra SRV and Ford Fusion have problems staying afloat. The brand recognition with these models is also a problem though. I think they should sell if they justify the price minus the size.

As GTO mentioned , I dont see Fabia as a success. I think Fabia sales might be at par with Palio.

devarshi84 · 27th January 2009, 01:57

466662 : Business : Skoda India reports 28.5 percent increase in sales

Fabia sold 6634 units in 2008. averages to 554 something cars a month. For a hatchback the price of the super uber godly Honda city in a country where a sedan is still luxury, define success in a better way. Their engines are weak, their diesels noisy and the spares expensive.

Fiat sold 4800 units last year averaging to 400 units something a month. Not a runaway hit but then they are happy since their target was 250.

The bottomline is, well thought out premium hatchbacks will surely have a market. Their sales will always trail the smaller hatches though.

shankar.balan · 27th January 2009, 07:32

a part of the problem is that our countrymen only feel that they have "arrived" in life if they have a car with a "boot" at the back. This apparent fixation could be one reason why premium hatches dont really inspire too many people from the mass market. Just look at Tata Indigo CS advertising for example. And take a look at Skoda Fabia/ Ford Fusion/Indigo Marina and even Skoda Octavia Combi's sales figures - also Opel Corsa Swing and the reason for them to have launched the Opel Corsa Sail.
I actually heard a pal of mine say about the Fabia when I suggested he evaluate it - "why should I buy a vehicle that pretty much looks like and is about the same size as a Swift for 7-8 lacs, when I can get something far bigger and with a boot, for the same money?"

ac 427 · 27th January 2009, 11:49

There is a market for Premium Hatch backs. There are many rich boys and / or small car enthusiasts who would want to buy a small car that gives all the comforts of a big car. Only thing here is the big boys are used to having good quality in their big cars and would expect the same in the small car. And more often the quality becomes a big issue considering you are buying a small car and still paying a high price.

amitk26 · 27th January 2009, 12:31

Short Answer:

(a) Premium as in loaded with premium features : YES why not
(b)Premium as in priced 3 lakhs more then its true worth with a slugish engine rattles , Safety and security features ( ABS , Air bags , traction control , engine immobilizer ) not being standard across all trims : A big NO.

Manufacturers in India offer (B) as premium hatch so they are not popular.

Ofcourse people do buy cars with out these goodies which are standard fitment abroad but in that case car need to be cheap as buyer is purchasing out of budget constraint and not because of choice.

GTO · 28th January 2009, 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by devarshi84

Fabia sold 6634 units in 2008. averages to 554 something cars a month.

Allow me to explain why it is a flop. The Fabia only started hitting showrooms in Dec '07 / Jan '08. Thus, the initial euphoria of a new launch contributed to 600 - 700 cars during the initial period. Even cars that are absolute sales duds today - the Palio, Aveo UVA, Logan etc. etc. - you will understand, have enjoyed this "new to the market" syndrome. From April to December, the Fabia has suffered month-on-month declines. In terms of Y-O-Y declines (December 2008), the Fabia is pretty much on top of the failure list with a 60% negative, alongwith the Aveo (-54%), the Ambassador (-62%) and the Logan (81%). In October & November 2008, even the Palio outsold the Fabia.

As of December, the Fabia is languishing at a paltry 296 cars a month.

karanraheja · 28th January 2009, 20:16

If now itself Fabia is below 300 mark i can imagine once the GP and Jazz come in. Fabia 1.2 sales will now be more hit with i20 launch. Hightime Skoda increases the localisation of Fabia parts.

Fountainheader · 28th January 2009, 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by karanraheja

If now itself Fabia is below 300 mark i can imagine once the GP and Jazz come in. Fabia 1.2 sales will now be more hit with i20 launch. Hightime Skoda increases the localisation of Fabia parts.

And do what ? All the damage to the brand Fabia is already done (No offence meant to Fabia owners). Increasing localization would mean cheaper OTR costs. But the other problems - underpowered engine, noisy diesel etc will continue.

Without doing any damage to the existing Fabia owners, Skoda might as well keep the prices intact.

karanraheja · 28th January 2009, 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fountainheader

And do what ? All the damage to the brand Fabia is already done (No offence meant to Fabia owners). Increasing localization would mean cheaper OTR costs. But the other problems - underpowered engine, noisy diesel etc will continue.

Without doing any damage to the existing Fabia owners, Skoda might as well keep the prices intact.

Anil, there were reports of Skoda increasing localisation content and bring down prices a bit. Well yes nothing can be done to the engine bit. Lets wait and see .

theEnd · 28th January 2009, 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by karanraheja

Anil, there were reports of Skoda increasing localisation content and bring down prices a bit. Well yes nothing can be done to the engine bit. Lets wait and see .

Oh they could do something about the engine... How about putting the 1.8 turbo petrol from the Octavia TPI into the Fabia? Now that would be a really hot hatch! Make it a 2-door, 16" alloys, fatter tyres, twin exhausts, flat-bottomed steering wheel... and sell it for about 10L. I'd buy one immediately!

joslicx · 28th January 2009, 23:20

If Honda can launch Civic hatch (with lets say ANHC's 1.5 engine) I'll buy it even for 8-9 lakhs!

There surely is a market for premium hatch (Swift's success points towards it). Its just that most manufacturers have been too either insensitive or sometimes careless to harness it. I think lot of people would like to have features/frills available in 15 lakh+ cars like DSG tranny, auto aircon, projectors, good engines (although given the traffic situation in most cities all engines are good enough in my view), advanced steering etc in smaller cars. If I can have Civic without boot for 3-4 lakhs less than why not? Similarly a 1.9 Tdi Fabia for its present price would have made a terrific buy (here Skoda lost the plot).
That said, I still think i20 can become successful this time (despite some of you guys cringing over the 1.2l engine). I believe super hatches make most sense in big crowded cities (like Delhi, Mum, Blore etc). People in these cities can afford those extra 50-60k rupees for better quality/more features. So a super hatch worth Swift+60k can still be a success in India. A hatch like Civic one can find some takers like me who want (and can easily afford) Civic but are put off because of Delhi traffic :(

neoonwheels · 29th January 2009, 10:04

Even a FIAT Bravo at 8-9L would be a steal. I guess I should stop day dreaming and get back to work

theEnd · 29th January 2009, 22:22

I think its important to be realistic as well.. A Civic hatchback would cost almost the same as a Civic saloon. If you put in a smaller engine and reduce the quality to make it 8-9L, like joslicx wants, then its no longer a Civic.

Similarly, a Fiat Bravo at 8-9L is not going to happen. Even the Grande Punto would be about 6-7L on the road if it comes with a decent engine.

26th January 2009, 20:57	#32
Yeldo BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Kochi Posts: 764 Thanked: 783 Times	A premium hatch priced around 10 lacs with a torquey Diesel, availability of auto 'box, comfy ride, supportive seats, safety kit including ABS, airbags & ESP, solid build, adjustable/ power everything and reliable service would definitely be of much interest to me.
	() Thanks

27th January 2009, 01:57	#34
devarshi84 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ahmedabad - Tor Posts: 4,024 Thanked: 211 Times View My Garage	466662 : Business : Skoda India reports 28.5 percent increase in sales Fabia sold 6634 units in 2008. averages to 554 something cars a month. For a hatchback the price of the super uber godly Honda city in a country where a sedan is still luxury, define success in a better way. Their engines are weak, their diesels noisy and the spares expensive. Fiat sold 4800 units last year averaging to 400 units something a month. Not a runaway hit but then they are happy since their target was 250. The bottomline is, well thought out premium hatchbacks will surely have a market. Their sales will always trail the smaller hatches though.
	() Thanks

27th January 2009, 07:32	#35
shankar.balan BANNED Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 11,368 Thanked: 23,150 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/2 (8)	a part of the problem is that our countrymen only feel that they have "arrived" in life if they have a car with a "boot" at the back. This apparent fixation could be one reason why premium hatches dont really inspire too many people from the mass market. Just look at Tata Indigo CS advertising for example. And take a look at Skoda Fabia/ Ford Fusion/Indigo Marina and even Skoda Octavia Combi's sales figures - also Opel Corsa Swing and the reason for them to have launched the Opel Corsa Sail. I actually heard a pal of mine say about the Fabia when I suggested he evaluate it - "why should I buy a vehicle that pretty much looks like and is about the same size as a Swift for 7-8 lacs, when I can get something far bigger and with a boot, for the same money?"
	() Thanks

27th January 2009, 11:49	#36
ac 427 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,393 Thanked: 244 Times View My Garage	There is a market for Premium Hatch backs. There are many rich boys and / or small car enthusiasts who would want to buy a small car that gives all the comforts of a big car. Only thing here is the big boys are used to having good quality in their big cars and would expect the same in the small car. And more often the quality becomes a big issue considering you are buying a small car and still paying a high price.
	() Thanks

27th January 2009, 12:31	#37
amitk26 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,089 Thanked: 715 Times	Short Answer: (a) Premium as in loaded with premium features : YES why not (b)Premium as in priced 3 lakhs more then its true worth with a slugish engine rattles , Safety and security features ( ABS , Air bags , traction control , engine immobilizer ) not being standard across all trims : A big NO. Manufacturers in India offer (B) as premium hatch so they are not popular. Ofcourse people do buy cars with out these goodies which are standard fitment abroad but in that case car need to be cheap as buyer is purchasing out of budget constraint and not because of choice.
	() Thanks

28th January 2009, 20:16	#39
karanraheja Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Coimbatore Posts: 1,961 Thanked: 436 Times	If now itself Fabia is below 300 mark i can imagine once the GP and Jazz come in. Fabia 1.2 sales will now be more hit with i20 launch. Hightime Skoda increases the localisation of Fabia parts.
	() Thanks

28th January 2009, 23:20	#43
joslicx Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,286 Thanked: 1,011 Times	If Honda can launch Civic hatch (with lets say ANHC's 1.5 engine) I'll buy it even for 8-9 lakhs! There surely is a market for premium hatch (Swift's success points towards it). Its just that most manufacturers have been too either insensitive or sometimes careless to harness it. I think lot of people would like to have features/frills available in 15 lakh+ cars like DSG tranny, auto aircon, projectors, good engines (although given the traffic situation in most cities all engines are good enough in my view), advanced steering etc in smaller cars. If I can have Civic without boot for 3-4 lakhs less than why not? Similarly a 1.9 Tdi Fabia for its present price would have made a terrific buy (here Skoda lost the plot). That said, I still think i20 can become successful this time (despite some of you guys cringing over the 1.2l engine). I believe super hatches make most sense in big crowded cities (like Delhi, Mum, Blore etc). People in these cities can afford those extra 50-60k rupees for better quality/more features. So a super hatch worth Swift+60k can still be a success in India. A hatch like Civic one can find some takers like me who want (and can easily afford) Civic but are put off because of Delhi traffic :( Last edited by joslicx : 28th January 2009 at 23:22.
	() Thanks

29th January 2009, 10:04	#44
neoonwheels Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Pune Posts: 2,065 Thanked: 1,877 Times View My Garage	Even a FIAT Bravo at 8-9L would be a steal. I guess I should stop day dreaming and get back to work
	() Thanks

29th January 2009, 22:22	#45
theEnd BHPian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 534 Thanked: 6 Times View My Garage	I think its important to be realistic as well.. A Civic hatchback would cost almost the same as a Civic saloon. If you put in a smaller engine and reduce the quality to make it 8-9L, like joslicx wants, then its no longer a Civic. Similarly, a Fiat Bravo at 8-9L is not going to happen. Even the Grande Punto would be about 6-7L on the road if it comes with a decent engine.
	() Thanks